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Post by WindSister on Jun 13, 2017 10:03:18 GMT -5
I agree with all the above. He's scared and trying to "woo" you but you have already seen who he is when the "wooing stage" is over - that's him. Yes, he may change in some ways here and there for his next relationship, like Baz said - but it's not you. It sounds like YOU are definitely done and understandably so. A neglected dead plant in the basement can be brought up to the light, but that doesn't mean it will live.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2017 10:06:21 GMT -5
Wow, this is a tough one. I really don't know what to advise you. My last straw was when my refuser agreed to make an appointment with a doctor to explore medical reasons for sexual issues. She agreed to make the appt within 2 weeks. When the 2 weeks were up, she had not made an appt and I left.
AFTER I moved out, she said she wanted to work on things. But I had to decide if I wanted to be with someone who would only make changes after I took some extremely severe measures, such as moving out. I did go to counseling for 6 months and I realized that she had not changed a single bit, but was only trying to suck me back in.
The difference is that your H is making changes while you are still living in the same house. I would suggest some counseling so you can explore whether these are lasting changes, or just temporary. My refuser's changes were total bullshit. She was just pretending to change.
However, if you believe that you feelings toward him have been broken beyond repair, you may just be putting off the inevitable. So I would ask if your H was to be able to maintain these changes for the rest of the relationship, could you see yourself staying with him?
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Post by Apocrypha on Jun 13, 2017 11:47:00 GMT -5
the sexlessness is still there. The iphysical intimacy - hugs and kisses - ended because of me as it felt unnatural and forced when he requested it every morning as we left for work or upon arriving home. It just felt stupid and fake and made me resent him more. So I don't hug him anymore but I think he'd welcome any hugs or intimacy at this point. After years of counselling, Mrs Apocrypha and I got back to a really good place as partners, minus the sex. We had date night, talked problems through, changed ourselves and behavior in significant ways. If we were coworkers, or buddies or ex-spouses, it would have been a much improved, more healthy relationship - but dropping sex into the equation was a disaster. Regardless of how he feels or acts - desire isn't there. It isn't there on your side either. You can both enact the tropes of a romantic relationship in order to embalm whatever is left in the association, but there is no romantic heartbeat there. At some point, if you are alive, you will feel that yearning for someone else, and so will he. |
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Post by merrygoround on Jun 13, 2017 12:47:27 GMT -5
the sexlessness is still there. The iphysical intimacy - hugs and kisses - ended because of me as it felt unnatural and forced when he requested it every morning as we left for work or upon arriving home. It just felt stupid and fake and made me resent him more. So I don't hug him anymore but I think he'd welcome any hugs or intimacy at this point. I'm with you there - I had a brief kiss on the cheek when I returned from my trip but I have absolutely no compunction to show any degree of affection. I have totally detached emotionally. It feels awkward and fake and just ugh! So, no more hugs and just being "polite" is the limit. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2017 12:53:23 GMT -5
My H and I had a few discussions lately. I moved into the guest bedroom a few weeks ago. He told his mom and brother he'd treated me really badly by neglecting and withdrawing sex from for 17 years. He said he wants to stay married even after I told him that I couldn't go back and that I'd changed. He is now trying everything. He has never vacuumed or done house chores and he's doing everything now. My bday was yesterday and he brought coffee in bed and showered me with gifts. He hates to go out but he went to sing karaoke with me last night and is going canoeing with me He used to not take care of the cats and dog and now he's taking care of them and taking the dog out every morning for a long hike at 5:30 am. He told me he treated me like s:&? and he had been a d/;&. Now he's on the phone with his brother saying how he used to not want to do stuff with me that he'd rather smoke weed or watch tv but now he does everything I suggest. The problem is that I no longer feel anything besides friendship for him. He read a book called Resisiting Happiness and he's taken every single word to heart and it's like he's had a personality transplant. He says he knows what the right thing to do is and we naturally want to do the right thing and bringing someone joy is so impossible and that love is a verb and that he used to resist and feel like s:?& for doing that. He said he had self loathing and guilt when he would hear me crying myself to sleep some nights. The problem is that all this came to late. He is now talking to his brother about how I taught him so much. That stuff he's reading in this book I'd told him about a long time ago. It's painful to think of leaving him but I've become numb from the emotional abuse and no longer even feel anger towards him. I left my job Wednesday and am in the process of finding a new one. Things are so weird right now. I just needed to vent. Thanks for reading. He is going to want validation for his actions and as time goes on his conversations with his brother will turn to him trying to save the marriage and you are trying to destroy it and this will become your fault. |
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Post by greatcoastal on Jun 13, 2017 13:14:09 GMT -5
the sexlessness is still there. The iphysical intimacy - hugs and kisses - ended because of me as it felt unnatural and forced when he requested it every morning as we left for work or upon arriving home. It just felt stupid and fake and made me resent him more. So I don't hug him anymore but I think he'd welcome any hugs or intimacy at this point. Ahh...but his welcoming intimacy is for very different reasons than yours. You are giving he is taking. Those little pecks and forced hugs every morning and when he arrived home are all his method of taking, there all self centered with no giving. It's there way of keeping you in your place. Like a leash on a dog. Just some more thought about this. He asks for small consolation intimacy. That in itself makes it nothing but a daily, meaningless , ritual. I think it's fair to say, that's how most would see it. For a giver you want to give intimacy in small token amounts along with much larger amounts, for the joy of giving to fill someone else's needs, then have the satisfaction of being desired and needed by some one else. You also deserve, need, and expect the same in return. The taker, has needs to. they need to hide whatever feelings of fear, resentment, dislike they have for intimacy. Their greater need is having someone they can control, and who will agree with their ways. That is how they get there importance, safety, happiness, almost like intimacy for them. They may also need words of affirmation, and acts of random service. As long as you provide that for them, (being a maid, servant, house keeper, accountant, maintenance person, daycare, trophy wife, cook, etc...) No intimacy, respect, giving, is required. These are all verbs. He has started doing these things around the house. Is this his way of showing you "what I do for you, i expect you to do the same for me?" Meanwhile your needs, "touch, gifts, and words of praise" continue to go un-met? You have given that to him in the past, and he does not respond by returning them. Don't be taken by the taker. (tell me if I am even close about your situation?) |
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Post by Rhapsodee on Jun 13, 2017 16:37:06 GMT -5
This change is extreme and it most likely will be short lived, or maybe not. Most people have to hit rock bottom before they change. Maybe he will go to therapy and continue to grow and become a good husband to someone, not necessarily you though.
I would still
1. Remove everything you value and put it in a safe place.
2. Open your own bank account at a different bank.
3. Contact an attorney.
Then talk to him. Tell him how you feel and your plans. Make sure you have a safety net to fall into just in case things go seriously wrong.
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Post by csl on Jun 13, 2017 16:57:10 GMT -5
Bovine effluvia! Damascus Moments prove otherwise. That said, I learned the concept of Reset from this board. Time tells the story, not our cynicism. I've seen many come to Jesus moments on boards like these. The best change for as many as 2 or 3 years. Their true selves come back once the coast is clear. It's not completely hopeless. If one is willing to make sure the coast is never clear then it can keep going. But that's not for the faint of heart. Then look beyond these boards. |
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Post by csl on Jun 13, 2017 17:04:24 GMT -5
My H and I had a few discussions lately. I moved into the guest bedroom a few weeks ago. He told his mom and brother he'd treated me really badly by neglecting and withdrawing sex from for 17 years. He said he wants to stay married even after I told him that I couldn't go back and that I'd changed. I confess that the first time I read your post, I skimmed. It was when someone downthread quoted it that I realized that there is something different in this situation: public admission of wrong doing in the marriage. If I'm not mistaken, in most (if not all) reset attempts, public admission of being the bad partner doesn't happen. To all the others, does this merit examination? |
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Post by northstarmom on Jun 13, 2017 17:25:31 GMT -5
He withdrew sex from her for 17 YEARS. Obviously, he has no sexual interest in her or he wouldn't have been able to go so long without having sex with her. I doubt, too, that she gets turned on thinking about having sex with him. It would feel incestuous.
He can't will himself into having sexual feelings for her. He could force himself to go through the motions, but that is not likely to provide her with the kind of sex she longs for.
The marriage is dead unless she wants to continue in a roommate, brother/sister marriage.
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Post by warmways on Jun 13, 2017 20:02:22 GMT -5
Thanks so much everybody. I agree with at least one or two or more elements from every single comment.
-I'm just done
I know he's changed as far as house chores but he's not interested in taking his relationship past being a good roommate and he indicted himself already by telling me he's been a dick and treated me like s - I'm gathering my belongings together and my pride. I still feel young and I'm not interested in his way of trying to force intimacy after pushing me away all these years.
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Post by northstarmom on Jun 13, 2017 20:12:13 GMT -5
You are wise to be making the decision to leave at so young an age. When I decided to divorce my husband, I was 62 and had been married for 34 years. Making that decision was one of the best things I ever did. I have never regretted it. I just regret not divorcing him years earlier.
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Post by nolongerlonely on Jun 14, 2017 1:25:51 GMT -5
csl, you are quite right, it does seem unusual, not that I am an expert. However, I think, even if warmways partner has addressed his failure, its all too late. She has lived with this way of being for far too long. 17 years. I cant imagine it. I'm in year 10 of no sex at all and around year 25 of not in the least interested (my w) and I must say from my side at least, your feelings for your partner gradually die inside. I reached the 'not wishing to touch at all' stage about 5 years ago. And we dont. I've currently reached a 'co-habitation' stage, where nothing means anything at all anymore. Actually it felt quite liberating at first, feeling I was finally ready to draw an end to it all. Things have been less volatile since that happened - she loves to start arguments, for several weeks now that just hasnt happened. We exchange strange looks, and I am not allowing myself to be drawn into 'her bs'. I'm done. No amount of retroactive behaviour is going to save it. I just dont fancy her at all, dont see her in that way anymore - the desire to create desire from my side to hers has been dead and buried for years now. So it cant be reversed. I'm sure we are reading about the same underlying behavioural pattern, if thats what you can call it. But theres the irony. We 'the refusees' are the ones who have to take the final step. We have lived with this shit for all these years, but still we arent just let off the hook. Perhaps warmways partner is trying to draw attention from outside sources hoping they will step in and try to salvage the relationship. You could call it, the divine intervention theory. But I think he has left it all far too late.
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Post by baza on Jun 14, 2017 2:15:16 GMT -5
Quoting you here Brother csl - "If I'm not mistaken, in most (if not all) reset attempts, public admission of being the bad partner doesn't happen.
To all the others, does this merit examination?"I am thinking of "lovelyalone", "busterdug", "ModLulu" and a few others where the spouse went public about their, behaviour. So it is not unknown. But you are right that it is rare. And of those, only one "lovelyalone" demonstrated a reasonable amount of recovery (several years) but her last story in December 2016 indicates that one is tanking too. But for all that, Mr warmways has picked up vacuuming, house chores, coffee in bed, gifts, going out, singing karaoke, dog care and walking, and may even go canoe-ing with Sister warmways . And he has maintained this cracking pace for all of a few weeks. His dick however, remains firmly ensconced in his trousers, where it has lain dormant for 1.7 decades and there is no hint in the post of this organ being re-commissioned and deployed. And it doesn't appear that Sister warmways has any great interest now, even if it were on offer. |
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Post by snowman12345 on Jun 14, 2017 5:24:04 GMT -5
Thanks so much everybody. I agree with at least one or two or more elements from every single comment. -I'm just done I know he's changed as far as house chores but he's not interested in taking his relationship past being a good roommate and he indicted himself already by telling me he's been a dick and treated me like s - I'm gathering my belongings together and my pride. I still feel young and I'm not interested in his way of trying to force intimacy after pushing me away all these years. When your partner ignores you, they are simply teaching you to live without them. Good luck to you!
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