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Post by baza on Jun 4, 2017 5:04:54 GMT -5
This post is to hopefully provoke some discussion about the risk you might be running of putting yourself in a WORSE situation should you choose the cheating route.
The best available evidence comes from those members who HAVE chosen the cheat option, and lived to tell the tale, be it a good or bad tale.
Now personally, I have been a member of the old EP/ILIASM group from Feb 2009, and this current group since. That's 8+ years of reading God knows how many stories and comments there-on. Of these, hundreds are from people who have chosen the cheat option and who have attested first hand about their outcomes.
The risk in cheating is that the introduction of a 3rd party into an already dysfunctional relationship will almost certainly fundamentally change the situation within your ILIASM shithole - and that, is not necessarily a bad thing.
However the "risk" is that the changes are wildly unpredictable, and pretty much unmanageable.
So your risk of cheating having unpredictable consequences for you is actually quite high.
But, some of these unpredictable consequences are not always a bad thing necessarily.
For example, you cheat, get caught, your spouse goes apeshit and divorces you - thus bringing the dysfunctional situation to an end. Messy, but not necessarily a "bad" outcome longer term.
Unfortunately, the getting caught, apeshit spouse, divorce, is not the most common outcome.
The most common outcome is that you cheat, get caught, spouse goes apeshit, and then makes your life a living hell, holding your "sin" over your head for ever more.
Less common is the scenario where you find in your fellow cheater a kindred spirit, the *soulmate*, thus necessitating you getting out of your ILIASM shithole to be with said soulmate.
Fairly common is the cheating helping you tolerate your ILIASM shithole thus helping to prolong it. Whether that is a *good* or *bad* outcome could be debated.
It is also reasonably common for the cheating spouse to get a bit of a taste of *normal* sex giving them cause to deeply examine just what is missing in their primary relationship and finding motivation there to get out of their ILIASM shithole - NOT necessarily with the co-cheater.
A lot of the *risk* in the cheating option is a double edged blade.
If the outcome ends up being the ending of your ILIASM shithole one way or another, is that necessarily a *bad* thing longer term ?
What you can be pretty asure of as far as *risk* goes, is that the cheating option will fundamentally change the dynamic.
The great unknown - and unknowable - is which tangent it will spin off to. And nearly all the tangents have the potential to make an already complicated situation even more complex.
It's a perfectly valid option, but boy, can it get messy.
Your risk of producing a complex mess is actually very high.
Disclaimer
In the strictest definition of the term I could be described as a cheater, given that I did have sex with a person other than my missus as our marriage was in its' death throes.
If you want my personal opinion about my personal experience as a cheater I'd be happy to give it, but it isn't really relevant to the above observations.
Footnote - I am using the terms "cheat", "cheating", "cheater" in a descriptive sense, not a judgemental sense.
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Post by bballgirl on Jun 4, 2017 7:26:03 GMT -5
I outsourced. I was faithful for 21 years and Feb. 2014 I called time of death on my marriage and became a counter refuser, not that I was going to be given the opportunity to exercise that right.
I went on AM to find a man to have sex with. We did sex was great!
He was in a SM too. I have no regrets about outsourcing because it clarified a lot of doubts I had about myself. During that first encounter, after round 2,
I asked him a lot of questions wondering if something was wrong with me. Am I not tight after 2 kids?, do I not give a good blow job? Etc.
I realized that nothing was wrong with me and how amazing good sex is. I never had sex like that with my H. I was very happy that I took that risk.
I know with the risk came consequences if I were caught and I was prepared to face the consequences. I never got caught. For me with outsourcing the reward outweighed the risk. I also believe that if I did not do that I might still be in my marriage, with no confidence and depressed. It opened my eyes to what sex between two people should be like. This was with a man that's not my H but there was more intimacy than my own H so that was a comparison.
I met my AP June of 2014, he is now my FWB. He is happily married and he knows I am dating and we help each other when we can. So in summary outsourcing was a positive experience for me because I was ok if the marriage blew up in my face. I was prepared to accept the consequences. It also motivated me to divorce so I didn't have to sneak around.
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Post by njsojourner on Jun 4, 2017 7:41:50 GMT -5
As miserable as I am in terms of SM, I have not outsourced (yet). The risk for me is double: getting caught means divorce and its financial and emotional consequences after 39 years but also the challenge of reputation and employment damage as I work for a religiously affiliated organization. But five years ago when the sex stopped I thought it was just temporary. She doesn't seem to care at all. It's not fair to be sure. A friend of mine reminds me that there is no law that says life has to be fair and he says I have it pretty good overall: my wife is intelligent, caring in all ways but sex, a great mother and grandmother, and worked hard her whole life--she was and is no slouch. I have thought I should just take a risk and try a fling with someone--short term, controlled. But I worry I won't just stop there and having rediscovered the joy of sex I'd keep going, taking ever more risks and eventually it would all come crashing down. I guess I have to sort that out--what is more important to me. I wonder how others come to terms with being celibate the rest of their lives.
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Post by Venus Erotes on Jun 4, 2017 8:20:03 GMT -5
You're timing baza is amazing. I just wrote the following for my blog yesterday - edited for the purposes of this post. It's not publishing until later this month. Enjoy your preview  ************************************************************************************************* I recently met someone who told me their spouse only needs them for emotional support, and doesn't want a physical relationship.
WTF is that all about?
How can you expect a supportive partner when you are unwilling to bond with them in a meaningful way?
It makes me wonder how this person was raised. Did they grow up in an unsupportive environment? Was affection not the norm? Does this person have mommy/daddy issues? What the hell happened that they think it's okay to shut off the physical part of their relationship?
If you're married, you made a vow to have sex until death parts you.
There is a part of our traditional wedding vows that addresses sex in the marriage. Until it was pointed out to me, I never realized it was there. "To have and to hold". How many times is that vow broken and NOT addressed?
Btw, a partner who refuses to have sex can be accused of abandonment in marriage. At least in my state here in the USA.
So what is worse? Breaking this vow of matrimony that seems to appear in many modern vows? Or cheating?
We always jump to cheating. While it's a legal reason, it's not typically a marriage vow. I can't seem to find where adultery is addressed in most modern vows.
I saw "forsaking all others" which sounds all kinds of fucked up to me. I'm gonna give up ALL my family and friends for my spouse? I'm sorry. That's fucked up. Not in this day and age.
Thou Shalt Not Commit Adultery
Ah yes. Adultery. Do you know what it means? We all are aware of the modern day definition - two people where at least one is in a committed relationship and fucking another person. I get that.
Do you know how adultery was defined when it was written?
I'm pulling this from wikipedia (my own personal bias included), so it could be completely wrong, but given what I recently learned in the book "Sex at Dawn" by Christopher Ryan, PhD. and his wife Cacilda Jetha, MD., I feel good about it's validity.
Adultery in the time of Moses:
Men fucking whomever they wanted and women being put to death if they fucked someone other than their husband. WTF? Oh, when the man did have sex with a woman who was not his wife he married her. Just FYI.
In a time where birth control didn't exist, the only option was to control the woman. This maintained the bloodlines in their offspring with regards to inheritance and property rights.
Sex is an amazing part of the human experience. There is nothing else we do as human beings that brings out so much good in our bodies. Sex releases hormones that are meant to create a bond between us and the one we love. Skin to skin is the ultimate in intimacy. Sharing fully of our bodies and mind is my definition of Intimate Love, and it can only come from having more sex with a partner we love. |
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Post by hopingforachange on Jun 4, 2017 8:34:11 GMT -5
I asked him a lot of questions wondering if something was wrong with me. Am I not tight after 2 kids?, do I not give a good blow job? Etc. I realized that nothing was wrong with me and how amazing good sex is. I never had sex like that with my H. I was very happy that I took that risk. That has to be an amaizing confidence and self esteem boost. |
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Post by Venus Erotes on Jun 4, 2017 8:34:15 GMT -5
This is also on my blog and posted this week. Again, related to to the topic. Admin Please remove if I am posting too much! ************************************************************************************************ Nearly 3 years ago I found myself on EP looking for validation. Validation that it was okay to cheat on my husband.
Fortunately for me, I asked this question in a place where the anonymity of the internet can be brutally honest.
"You are here to obtain permission to sleep with a man who is not your husband."
Damn. All I wanted was an "Oh you so need to fuck your friend." Didn't happen. Well, there were others that said yeah, cheat, but this statement stuck with me.
I was rejected by my husband for years, never felt beautiful, desired, or wanted, but life was great! I figured the great sex I desired was over with because I was living this wonderful life. How could I possibly want to cheat living such a wonderful life?
Suddenly there is a burning flame of attraction with another man and I felt it - that magical desire that gives you butterflies and brings on a high that can only be felt with Lust/Love or narcotics. It's freeing, makes you feel wanted, desired, fulfilling this hole that had been in my relationship for years and never realized existed.
I was also brainwashed.
YES, BRAINWASHED.
We all are. Society tells us what is right and what is wrong, and our parents and caregivers also play a HUGE role in sculpting how we think.
Bottom line, you need to live your life according to your values.
- So what are your values?
- Do you love yourself?
- Do you know WHO you are?
- Why did you stay in your relationship?
- Was it the security?
- Did you grow up with nothing?
- Was your mother/father part of your life growing up?
These are the same questions that brought me to where I am today. I've done a ton of soul searching and figuring out WHO I am, and worked hard, and continue to work hard on loving myself. Counseling has helped me face all of these and continues to help me.
I have daddy issues. I am in a position now where I can recognize that. I now recognize how people have treated me in my past and when I see the same treatment now, I recognize it. I am able to change my direction instead of falling into old habits of "going with the flow".
I was flowing through life and relied on my early-shaped instincts, which are all based on how I was raised. Yes - I have mommy issues too! LOL! Cutting the cord and separating my values from those of my mother's has been enlightening.
Make sure you are taking care of yourself and you learn WHO you are, figure out YOUR values instead of letting society (and those who raised you) tell you what is right and wrong.
Most importantly, don't forget to LOVE who you are!
XOXO!
*V |
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Post by bballgirl on Jun 4, 2017 9:15:58 GMT -5
I asked him a lot of questions wondering if something was wrong with me. Am I not tight after 2 kids?, do I not give a good blow job? Etc. I realized that nothing was wrong with me and how amazing good sex is. I never had sex like that with my H. I was very happy that I took that risk. That has to be an amaizing confidence and self esteem boost. It was honestly a gift to help me get my life back and find some happiness. |
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Post by wewbwb on Jun 4, 2017 10:02:46 GMT -5
In many ways my fwb enriched my life . She was supportive and caring and kind .
Interestingly , kindness is something that I missed .
So simple .
Also she was flexible and not squeamish .
So good times.
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Post by Rhapsodee on Jun 4, 2017 10:39:17 GMT -5
I have explored AM. The first thing I ask is "What is your situation? Why are you here on AM?" If I get the "My wife just doesn't do it for me" or "Our sex life has become routine and boring," I know this jerk is a player. A couple of the times this question ignited an explosion of hurt and anger. They have the same stories we read here on the site. For some reason instead of looking for help, they do the knee-jerk reaction of "If you wont have sex with me, I will find someone who will!" I refer them here. A couple have become members. The odd thing is they become my friends even if noting else happens between us. So, I'm the Mother Rhapsodee of Sexless Marriages. Yea me. One of my "friends" (not my type) that I keep in touch with has been on AM for 10 years. He has many funny stories to tell about his encounters. He says he has never been caught, or even come close to getting caught. He's not happy. Reading between the lines I think he would rather have a closer relationship with his wife. He is happy to have someone to talk to about it though. It would be foolish and naive to think or hope that the FWB is going to fall in love with you and take you away like some Prince Charming. It ain't going to happen. On EP there were so many broken hearts. These poor people would fall in love and that object of their affection would disappear with no explanation. They write and cry "Why, why, why? How can you do this to me?" Either this coward left EP or changed their user name so they didn't have to deal with the theatrics of a broken heart. I don't know if it has happened here, but there is always that possibility. Outsourcing, while it may scratch an itch, toys with your emotions, your morality, your finances, your time...... As you say baza we all have to tread our own path and take the consequences if we stray off into the woods. Is it worth the risk? |
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Post by TMD on Jun 4, 2017 11:24:27 GMT -5
If somebody is having an affair, or considering one, read the book, "When Good People Have Affairs."
Was it worth the risk for me? Yes.
Would I make this choice again? No
I haven't been "caught." I am in love with AP.
The writing of my SM journey is not yet "finished."
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Post by novembercomingfire on Jun 4, 2017 11:40:16 GMT -5
I have explored AM. The first thing I ask is "What is your situation? Why are you here on AM?" If I get the "My wife just doesn't do it for me" or "Our sex life has become routine and boring," I know this jerk is a player. A couple of the times this question ignited an explosion of hurt and anger. They have the same stories we read here on the site. For some reason instead of looking for help, they do the knee-jerk reaction of "If you wont have sex with me, I will find someone who will!" I refer them here. A couple have become members. The odd thing is they become my friends even if noting else happens between us. So, I'm the Mother Rhapsodee of Sexless Marriages. Yea me. One of my "friends" (not my type) that I keep in touch with has been on AM for 10 years. He has many funny stories to tell about his encounters. He says he has never been caught, or even come close to getting caught. He's not happy. Reading between the lines I think he would rather have a closer relationship with his wife. He is happy to have someone to talk to about it though. It would be foolish and naive to think or hope that the FWB is going to fall in love with you and take you away like some Prince Charming. It ain't going to happen. On EP there were so many broken hearts. These poor people would fall in love and that object of their affection would disappear with no explanation. They write and cry "Why, why, why? How can you do this to me?" Either this coward left EP or changed their user name so they didn't have to deal with the theatrics of a broken heart. I don't know if it has happened here, but there is always that possibility. Outsourcing, while it may scratch an itch, toys with your emotions, your morality, your finances, your time...... As you say baza we all have to tread our own path and take the consequences if we stray off into the woods. Is it worth the risk? What is AM? |
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Post by TMD on Jun 4, 2017 11:44:58 GMT -5
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Post by snowman12345 on Jun 4, 2017 17:32:08 GMT -5
Ah Baza...
You have brought this subject up numerous times and each time I stop and look at what I am doing and each time I decide - YES! It is worth the risk.
My AP for the last 4 years is an amazing, giving person. I am not, however, in love with her. Nor she with me (I don't think). We meet and have sex and leave. She lives her life and I go on living mine.
I take precautions, I do not want to get caught, but if I do, I will own up to my behavior. The marriage is broken anyway. In the case of divorce she would get half no matter what - no kids to support, she works and I am retired - works out to about half.
Consider this:
If I emptied the kitchen of all food and told you to fend for yourself from now on - what would you do? Starve?
Hey come on! The house is clean and the bills are paid - do you really expect food too?
I chose to go out to eat - so to speak.
I know I am rationalizing my behavior - I know it. But, so far it works and I have no real reason to stop yet.
I figure sooner or later the ol' ED virus will strike and I will have no reason to go sniffing around anymore. But until then I will have my fun!
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Post by Venus Erotes on Jun 4, 2017 19:12:47 GMT -5
Also she was flexible and not squeamish . So good times. Hahahaha!!!! You have NO idea how much I LOVE this statement! (((HUGS))) wewbwb |
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Post by wewbwb on Jun 4, 2017 21:25:02 GMT -5
Also she was flexible and not squeamish . So good times. Hahahaha!!!! You have NO idea how much I LOVE this statement! (((HUGS))) wewbwb Not as much as I did. Not even close . |
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Oh, when the man did have sex with a woman who was not his wife he married her. Just FYI.
