|
|
Post by greatcoastal on Jun 1, 2017 23:01:48 GMT -5
I am pretty sure this has been touched on or brought up before.
How many of you, knew before marriage that your spouses parents were divorced?
Later in your marriage did your spouses, family or yours start getting divorced?
Are your spouses brothers and sisters also the perpetrators of a SM?
If the mother or father is/was a controller/taker is that a huge red flag to run the other way?
My spouse knew her mom was that way. She even said, "I don't ever want to be like her, please call me out on it if I get like that". Looking back that puts all the burden on me to do all the calling out, boundary setting, constant enforcing, and having to change someone. That also meant a big change in who I was /am as well. I am too passive, too giving, too willing to please and keep the peace, not a decision maker, much more of a team player.
Looking at the here and now the circle will be complete. Of all the woman in my STBX's side of the immediate family, they will all be divorced. Both daughters are controllers like their mom, (the apple doesn't fall far from the tree) That leaves the older brother. He tolerates his wife, by being gone in his rig for weeks at a time. I've lost count of all the places they have had to move to, due to her spending and manipulation of their money and her going from job to job, in the same career field.. (I don't want to know about it)
This is not meant to be about controlling women. It just happened to be that way in my case. There are controlling families full of men too.
For those of us up in our years who are thinking of divorce and starting over, are you going to meet their parents? What if they have passed away? Lots to be learned from someones family, yes? No?
|
|
|
|
Post by baza on Jun 1, 2017 23:40:32 GMT -5
I reckon there's a lot in heredity factors in ILIASM deals.
My ILIASM partners parents were divorced, and her mother was absolutely nuts (I think an undiagnosed and untreated bi-polar issue was in play there - but that is speculation on my part).
Of my then missus siblings, the oldest sister eventually went nuts too, the next eldest sister survived pretty much unscathed, the youngest brother duly went nuts in his late teens.
Then there was my missus, who's mental health appeared ok initially but insidiously worsened as time went by.
And I probably didn't deal with that particularly helpfully.
Then of course there followed our offspring, one of which had a mental collapse about 3 years ago but has since returned to pretty much normality, and the other who is well aware of his heredity potential, and pro-actively deals with it.
One has a trail of dysfunctional deals behind him, the other is super gun shy and very wary of women.
Suffice to say that my personal opinion is that growing up in a dysfunctional family very often results in you getting into your very own dysfunctional relationship, and runs a big risk of your offspring following your example and in turn, getting into their very own dysfunctional relationship.
That is why I hold the opinion that "staying for the kids" is not necessarily such a great idea.
Sooner or later, someone needs to call a halt to the dysfunctional marriage problem or it just spills down the generations.
As the current torch bearers, that responsibility pretty clearly rests with us.
Or, alternatively, we can give ourselves a pass, and leave it for our kids / grandkids to sort it out.
|
|
|
|
Post by tamara68 on Jun 2, 2017 4:07:28 GMT -5
My stbx's parents got a divorce about 20 years ago. MIL is very controlling and FIL was cold and passive. Stbx has always complained a lot about his mother. She didn't give him any space to grow up and become independent. But he is a lot worse than his mother. My SIL has never gotten along with her brother and has always been very moody and as a grown up still behaves like an obstinate and very unpleasant teenager. She has never even seen my daughter because she wasn't interested to get to know the only niece she has. She had only one love relation until she was about 24 years old, that ended badly and she never had an other boyfriend again. She also has been unemployed for many years. So both brother and sister didn't manage very well.
When starting over, meeting a dysfunctional family would be a reason to be cautious, but if you rule out everyone with a dysfunctional family, you lose most candidates. And it is not just family. We all here have suffered in a dysfunctional relationship that has influenced us just as much as a dysfunctional family. I think you have to be careful and take enough time to develop a new relationship. Follow your instinct and notice red flags.
|
|
|
|
Post by h on Jun 2, 2017 7:43:48 GMT -5
I don't believe in judging one person based on the actions of another but I think family and upbringing plays a huge role in how people act later in life. I only saw the loving facade that they showed me and it wasn't until after we were married for a while that the red flags started to become visible. Her parents were both previously married and divorced before this one. They both cheated on each other with the other's sibling. (Some really messed up Jerry Springer worthy stuff there.) He drinks to excess and goes into fits of rage, she has refused him for longer than I know, he's physically abused her, she threatens to divorce every few years and moves out but then goes back a day later. She constantly accuses him of cheating still and has no trust in him at all. It's a completely dysfunctional relationship and I see the distrust and crazy come out at times in my W. She isn't nearly that bad and has gotten better with time but the effect is real.
|
|
|
|
Post by iceman on Jun 2, 2017 8:06:13 GMT -5
My wife has turned into her mother in so many ways it's frightening. I can't speak to whether her parents had SM problems but it appeared to be pretty likely. And my wife swore she wasn't going to follow in mother's path but here we are. She always said her parents had an unhappy marriage but found someway to stay together in spite of that. And she seemed to admire them for it. WTF?!?! They sacrificed their happiness for the sake of staying together, especially long after the kids are away, and that's something good??? Granted I don't know everything that went on but that's really messed up!!! I've told my wife repeatedly that I'm not her father and won't be sticking around just for the sake of staying married. Don't think she believes me but I really do mean that.
|
|
|
|
Post by greatcoastal on Jun 2, 2017 8:54:06 GMT -5
We have all heard the stories of the child who's parents couldn't read, and where dirt poor. The child was pushed to excel through the help of a mentor, the community ,or one of the parents. They go on to be the chief brain surgeon in the country. Those can be very motivational stories!
Then comes the every day reality of dealing with being raised by parents who struggled themselves with a spouse who was/is narcissistic, bi-polar, a gambler, cheater, lire, alcoholics, physically abusive, mentally abusive, etc.... People who rise above that and go on to lead a successful ,happy marriage, and family, those don't get the recognition, praise and highlighting they deserve. I wish I could be around more of that and learn from it. " Every body gets to be a sucker once" Right?
I'm hoping digging into someone's past, and asking how and what the've learned from it will be a successful way of charting a new path. Not only asking and taking there word for it, but by studying there actions and words.( Like my wife who told me from the beginning, "I'm not going to be like that" well guess what?....) Enough to not get fooled again.
On a side note; My mother was bi-polar. It was diagnosed in my teen years. We, as a family learned to accept it and realized her severe depression, or huge mood swings of spending and excess energy and emotions where warning signs. They told us, "that's her bi-polar, not the person we used to know". The old person never seem to totally come back, and it took accepting the new person with a better pity and understanding due to her mental issues. At least we all understood the "why' factor. It also explained Dads passivity in dealing with all that aggression. That personality was passed on to me. I remember dad having to disconnect the battery from the car, so mom wouldn't hurt herself or anyone else.
|
|
|
|
Post by GeekGoddess on Jun 2, 2017 8:58:04 GMT -5
Holey sheets, h - that is some AMAZING dysfunction. Your parents-in-law may actually win the Dysfunction Olympics, if there were such a thing! My Ex has three brothers - all married once and all still together. His mother passed before I knew/met the folks. His dad was pretty "normal" for an old guy. When we were visiting the family in Chicago at one brother's house, and all 4 boys were together...I had already told Ex of the divorce but we were doing this one last trip because it had been planned, train tickets already bought, and I'd get to see all my in-laws one last time. Ex launches into how I was attending Adult Children of Alcoholics & Dysfunctional Families. Brothers & wives all interested in what that is, what did I learn there, etc. Ex keeps pretty much talking over me (as was his habit) explaining why an Irish Catholic family with an alcoholic dad and 11 children (MY family, that is) is certainly prone to, or the odds are good for, dysfunctional systems. And he says - I mean in our family (4 boys, Jewish, birthed very late in life to their parents) - that's just not as likely. The brothers burst out laughing. Apparently, 3 of 4 boys KNEW they had a dysfunctional upbringing, learned from it and grew into their own healthy direction. But the one I married believed their family was NOT dysfunctional. So it may not be the existence of dysfunction but more so the awareness of it. If you can admit you have flaws, weaknesses, etc - you are more likely to work on those than someone who doesn't even see that they are there. This exchange was very telling and eye-opening for me. I still love my ex-in-laws (including Ex's first in-law family though I don't see them that much). There's no shame in HAVING dysfunction in the family or background - but if you can't admit it, especially because you can't see it, well that seems like the real red flag to me. |
|
|
|
Post by bballgirl on Jun 2, 2017 9:03:34 GMT -5
Holey sheets, h - that is some AMAZING dysfunction. Your parents-in-law may actually win the Dysfunction Olympics, if there were such a thing! My Ex has three brothers - all married once and all still together. His mother passed before I knew/met the folks. His dad was pretty "normal" for an old guy. When we were visiting the family in Chicago at one brother's house, and all 4 boys were together...I had already told Ex of the divorce but we were doing this one last trip because it had been planned, train tickets already bought, and I'd get to see all my in-laws one last time. Ex launches into how I was attending Adult Children of Alcoholics & Dysfunctional Families. Brothers & wives all interested in what that is, what did I learn there, etc. Ex keeps pretty much talking over me (as was his habit) explaining why an Irish Catholic family with an alcoholic dad and 11 children (MY family, that is) is certainly prone to, or the odds are good for, dysfunctional systems. And he says - I mean in our family (4 boys, Jewish, birthed very late in life to their parents) - that's just not as likely. The brothers burst out laughing. Apparently, 3 of 4 boys KNEW they had a dysfunctional upbringing, learned from it and grew into their own healthy direction. But the one I married believed their family was NOT dysfunctional. So it may not be the existence of dysfunction but more so the awareness of it. If you can admit you have flaws, weaknesses, etc - you are more likely to work on those than someone who doesn't even see that they are there. This exchange was very telling and eye-opening for me. I still love my ex-in-laws (including Ex's first in-law family though I don't see them that much). There's no shame in HAVING dysfunction in the family or background - but if you can't admit it, especially because you can't see it, well that seems like the real red flag to me. ^^^^^THIS EXACTLY!!! Learning from mistakes as well as eventually when our children are in their 20's before they get married explain to them dysfunction in our marriages to hopefully break the cycle. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2017 9:15:12 GMT -5
If the mother or father is/was a controller/taker is that a huge red flag to run the other way? My refuser's family should have been a huge red flag to me. Her mom had absolutely no respect for her dad, and he was an incredibly rude, entitled asshole. Her mom was a good person, but spoiled my refuser and her other two kids. All three of them are extremely spoiled and self-centered. Additionally, my refuser was very disrespectful to her parents. I should have known that she would have no respect for me either. At my age bracket, anyone I date would probably have deceased parents, but I would want to meet them, given the chance. Although I can smell selfishness a mile away now. |
|
|
|
Post by iceman on Jun 2, 2017 9:38:24 GMT -5
Then there was my missus, who's mental health appeared ok initially but insidiously worsened as time went by. And I probably didn't deal with that particularly helpfully. That's my wife. Initially okay, or at least covered up any issues well, but increasingly getting worse. I'm probably not helping the situation as well which just adds to our dysfunction. Dealing with a spouse's mental health issues when you yourself are very vulnerable and in a needful state is damn hard. |
|
|
|
Post by shamwow on Jun 2, 2017 9:40:36 GMT -5
I am pretty sure this has been touched on or brought up before. How many of you, knew before marriage that your spouses parents were divorced? Later in your marriage did your spouses, family or yours start getting divorced? Are your spouses brothers and sisters also the perpetrators of a SM? If the mother or father is/was a controller/taker is that a huge red flag to run the other way? My spouse knew her mom was that way. She even said, "I don't ever want to be like her, please call me out on it if I get like that". Looking back that puts all the burden on me to do all the calling out, boundary setting, constant enforcing, and having to change someone. That also meant a big change in who I was /am as well. I am too passive, too giving, too willing to please and keep the peace, not a decision maker, much more of a team player. Looking at the here and now the circle will be complete. Of all the woman in my STBX's side of the immediate family, they will all be divorced. Both daughters are controllers like their mom, (the apple doesn't fall far from the tree) That leaves the older brother. He tolerates his wife, by being gone in his rig for weeks at a time. I've lost count of all the places they have had to move to, due to her spending and manipulation of their money and her going from job to job, in the same career field.. (I don't want to know about it) This is not meant to be about controlling women. It just happened to be that way in my case. There are controlling families full of men too. For those of us up in our years who are thinking of divorce and starting over, are you going to meet their parents? What if they have passed away? Lots to be learned from someones family, yes? No? I'm not sure about controlling, but with my MIL and wife, the failure of the marriage has always been subtly shifted back to me. Even the un-diagnosed and untreated "medical condition" that makes sex painful has been shifted to me because I did not "force her to go to the doctor, making the appointment and driving her there if necessary". Sorry, I didn't marry a child. I thought I was marrying a grown-up. If she didn't see sex (or intimacy in general) as a priority, it is not my responsibility to force-feed it to her. My MIL also was divorced as well. Her priority is to take her daughter's side of course. I would expect no less. However, she also filled my wife's head with divorce information circa 1985 that is comically out of date now. I finally got my wife to visit a real attorney rather than the prestigious firm of "Facebook, Paralegal, and Family" and her lawyer educated her on the reality of divorce law in Texas in the 21st century. Rather than dragging her to the "lady part doctor", I should have dragged her to a lawyer in the beginning so that she knew what the process entailed. That would have saved both of us some grief. |
|
|
|
Post by h on Jun 2, 2017 9:41:06 GMT -5
Holey sheets, h - that is some AMAZING dysfunction. Your parents-in-law may actually win the Dysfunction Olympics, if there were such a thing! My Ex has three brothers - all married once and all still together. His mother passed before I knew/met the folks. His dad was pretty "normal" for an old guy. When we were visiting the family in Chicago at one brother's house, and all 4 boys were together...I had already told Ex of the divorce but we were doing this one last trip because it had been planned, train tickets already bought, and I'd get to see all my in-laws one last time. Ex launches into how I was attending Adult Children of Alcoholics & Dysfunctional Families. Brothers & wives all interested in what that is, what did I learn there, etc. Ex keeps pretty much talking over me (as was his habit) explaining why an Irish Catholic family with an alcoholic dad and 11 children (MY family, that is) is certainly prone to, or the odds are good for, dysfunctional systems. And he says - I mean in our family (4 boys, Jewish, birthed very late in life to their parents) - that's just not as likely. The brothers burst out laughing. Apparently, 3 of 4 boys KNEW they had a dysfunctional upbringing, learned from it and grew into their own healthy direction. But the one I married believed their family was NOT dysfunctional. So it may not be the existence of dysfunction but more so the awareness of it. If you can admit you have flaws, weaknesses, etc - you are more likely to work on those than someone who doesn't even see that they are there. This exchange was very telling and eye-opening for me. I still love my ex-in-laws (including Ex's first in-law family though I don't see them that much). There's no shame in HAVING dysfunction in the family or background - but if you can't admit it, especially because you can't see it, well that seems like the real red flag to me. Yes! The only thing I am grateful for is that they are so far over the top dysfunctional that my W is able to recognize that it's not normal. When we first started dating, the distrust she had came from how she expected all relationships were. She slowly grew out of it once she realized that not all people are like that. Now, we are both able to talk to each other about how crazy and weird their dysfunction is. |
|
|
|
Post by bballgirl on Jun 2, 2017 10:00:05 GMT -5
I am pretty sure this has been touched on or brought up before. How many of you, knew before marriage that your spouses parents were divorced? Later in your marriage did your spouses, family or yours start getting divorced? Are your spouses brothers and sisters also the perpetrators of a SM? If the mother or father is/was a controller/taker is that a huge red flag to run the other way? My spouse knew her mom was that way. She even said, "I don't ever want to be like her, please call me out on it if I get like that". Looking back that puts all the burden on me to do all the calling out, boundary setting, constant enforcing, and having to change someone. That also meant a big change in who I was /am as well. I am too passive, too giving, too willing to please and keep the peace, not a decision maker, much more of a team player. Looking at the here and now the circle will be complete. Of all the woman in my STBX's side of the immediate family, they will all be divorced. Both daughters are controllers like their mom, (the apple doesn't fall far from the tree) That leaves the older brother. He tolerates his wife, by being gone in his rig for weeks at a time. I've lost count of all the places they have had to move to, due to her spending and manipulation of their money and her going from job to job, in the same career field.. (I don't want to know about it) This is not meant to be about controlling women. It just happened to be that way in my case. There are controlling families full of men too. For those of us up in our years who are thinking of divorce and starting over, are you going to meet their parents? What if they have passed away? Lots to be learned from someones family, yes? No? I'm not sure about controlling, but with my MIL and wife, the failure of the marriage has always been subtly shifted back to me. Even the un-diagnosed and untreated "medical condition" that makes sex painful has been shifted to me because I did not "force her to go to the doctor, making the appointment and driving her there if necessary". Sorry, I didn't marry a child. I thought I was marrying a grown-up. If she didn't see sex (or intimacy in general) as a priority, it is not my responsibility to force-feed it to her. My MIL also was divorced as well. Her priority is to take her daughter's side of course. I would expect no less. However, she also filled my wife's head with divorce information circa 1985 that is comically out of date now. I finally got my wife to visit a real attorney rather than the prestigious firm of "Facebook, Paralegal, and Family" and her lawyer educated her on the reality of divorce law in Texas in the 21st century. Rather than dragging her to the "lady part doctor", I should have dragged her to a lawyer in the beginning so that she knew what the process entailed. That would have saved both of us some grief. Yep I should have said "if we don't start fucking regularly then I'm out of here" back in the 90's. Too much shame and insecurity back then but hindsight is 20/20. Now I have have the opposite problem - all they want is to fuck. I did meet a new man though and he has taken me out every time we met, gives me great words of affirmation and the sex was great the one time we were together. He's a nice person but time will tell his true intentions. Crazy thing I'm not asking for a lot. I just want some companionship, a man that I'm attracted to that wants to do things outside of the bedroom as well as inside the bedroom. We shall see! Sorry for the rant and change of topic. |
|
|
|
Post by shamwow on Jun 2, 2017 10:06:37 GMT -5
I'm not sure about controlling, but with my MIL and wife, the failure of the marriage has always been subtly shifted back to me. Even the un-diagnosed and untreated "medical condition" that makes sex painful has been shifted to me because I did not "force her to go to the doctor, making the appointment and driving her there if necessary". Sorry, I didn't marry a child. I thought I was marrying a grown-up. If she didn't see sex (or intimacy in general) as a priority, it is not my responsibility to force-feed it to her. My MIL also was divorced as well. Her priority is to take her daughter's side of course. I would expect no less. However, she also filled my wife's head with divorce information circa 1985 that is comically out of date now. I finally got my wife to visit a real attorney rather than the prestigious firm of "Facebook, Paralegal, and Family" and her lawyer educated her on the reality of divorce law in Texas in the 21st century. Rather than dragging her to the "lady part doctor", I should have dragged her to a lawyer in the beginning so that she knew what the process entailed. That would have saved both of us some grief. Yep I should have said "if we don't start fucking regularly then I'm out of here" back in the 90's. Too much shame and insecurity back then but hindsight is 20/20. Now I have have the opposite problem - all they want is to fuck. I did meet a new man though and he has taken me out every time we met, gives me great words of affirmation and the sex was great the one time we were together. He's a nice person but time will tell his true intentions. Crazy thing I'm not asking for a lot. I just want some companionship, a man that I'm attracted to that wants to do things outside of the bedroom as well as inside the bedroom. We shall see! Sorry for the rant and change of topic. How DARE you for wanting a man to treat you as a human being rather than a piece of meat! However, we are a forgiving lot here and I'm sure absolution will be forthcoming (with an appropriate penance of course). |
|
|
|
Post by greatcoastal on Jun 2, 2017 10:06:57 GMT -5
I'm not sure about controlling, but with my MIL and wife, the failure of the marriage has always been subtly shifted back to me. Even the un-diagnosed and untreated "medical condition" that makes sex painful has been shifted to me because I did not "force her to go to the doctor, making the appointment and driving her there if necessary". Sorry, I didn't marry a child. I thought I was marrying a grown-up. If she didn't see sex (or intimacy in general) as a priority, it is not my responsibility to force-feed it to her. Some words of encouragement for YOU! You are getting it, you are understanding it, and learning from it. My opinion, knee jerk reaction?I see the control there. The DARVO. Deny: It was never my fault. Argue: You didn't force me to go to the doctor. Reverse: You never made an appointment. Victim: You never cared enough about me. And Offender: How dare you bring it up now, when it's always been your fault. Hence, the controller. Pulling the strings, making you responsible and them the victim. |
|
