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Post by Apocrypha on May 8, 2017 10:01:32 GMT -5
Dating, post-marriage, with lots of people, you eventually get a kind of baseline for chemistry and romantic interest and whether or not you'd go on a second date with a person.
What seems remarkable and sad to you - astounding - is that he'd never think of kissing you. And yet, that's a completely normal feeling for two people who might have an otherwise nice time but not be romantically inclined.
Under "normal" circumstances - when the normal means it's one of the dozens of people you date who your aren't married to - you either don't see that person again and don't give it a thought, or if you feel it's owed, you present an explanation that "it feels more like friends" or "my feelings are not romantic feelings" and then both or one of you decide not to keep contact. It's not often really a difficult thought, once that realization is there, and it's usually there within the first date, or first three. It's perfectly normal.
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Post by Dan on May 8, 2017 14:24:22 GMT -5
I just wanted to vent a little about my frustrations this weekend. Last night was a work event I wanted to go to so I went with some coworkers and left the hubby at home. I can't remember the last time I socialized like this. My coworkers are serious parties and with the company picking up the tab there was definitely a lot of drinking. I haven't had more that a glass of wine in years and I had so much fun! At the same time I felt guilty for leaving the H at home with the kiddo while I went out, but he doesn't really enjoy socializing. I hadn't seen him all day and was hoping for a nice greeting when I got home. Instead he was cleaning and just said hey, I'm gonna finish this chore then go to bed. I sat on the couch, I was still pretty tipsy. He asked aren't you going to bed? I'm thinking, why? I can't even get a hug or a hey I missed you. Tonight was date night and we went to see Guardians of the Galaxy. Most the day I was thinking of bailing because date night seems like such a pretense. I ended going because, hey, at least I get to see a great movie. It was awesome by the way. We walked to the car and he opened the door. I told him, hey it's a date, how about a kiss? And we kissed and it was amazing. I miss those kisses, he smells and tastes amazing. But I have to make him kiss me. It's just so profoundly sad to me today. It's like, he isn't opposed to kissing, but he would never think of it himself. Just doesn't cross his mind. I told him, it's not a first date, you can kiss me. Hell you can even get laid tonight. He laughed and I knew that was hopeless. As I said, just wanting to vent. Switch the genders: and that is pretty much my story. Well, except I'm at the point where I don't even get my hopes up: I just go straight to disappointment. Well, except that I'm nearly numb to the disappointment: I just to straight to a sort of emptiness. At least that is better than sadness, right? |
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Post by shamwow on May 8, 2017 14:35:27 GMT -5
I think a lot of us here are people pleasers and went along with our partners. It took me hitting bottom in a depression to come with grips that my psychological needs were not being filled. The wife is not pleased that I am forcing the marriage to change but it needs to for me to be happy. If it doesn't change them I need to get a divorce inorder for me to find happiness. But the odd thing compared to most people here is that my wife is willing to work on changing after she realized how much pain I have been going thru. Quietly crying your self to sleep in the fetal position after being rejected is not a way to live. While I was alive, I wasn't living, I was not the person I remember being years ago, I was becoming bitter and lost my optimism that was part of me. I am envious that your wife was at least willing to work on changing. It does lend itself to hope. Most of the rest of us go through the years waving the flag that our (reasonable) needs are not even close to being met only to discover the person we are waving the flag to is simply perplexed by our strange behavior. |
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Post by hopingforachange on May 8, 2017 14:51:53 GMT -5
I think a lot of us here are people pleasers and went along with our partners. It took me hitting bottom in a depression to come with grips that my psychological needs were not being filled. The wife is not pleased that I am forcing the marriage to change but it needs to for me to be happy. If it doesn't change them I need to get a divorce inorder for me to find happiness. But the odd thing compared to most people here is that my wife is willing to work on changing after she realized how much pain I have been going thru. Quietly crying your self to sleep in the fetal position after being rejected is not a way to live. While I was alive, I wasn't living, I was not the person I remember being years ago, I was becoming bitter and lost my optimism that was part of me. I am envious that your wife was at least willing to work on changing. It does lend itself to hope. Most of the rest of us go through the years waving the flag that our (reasonable) needs are not even close to being met only to discover the person we are waving the flag to is simply perplexed by our strange behavior. She is trying I am hoping it works out but I am not singing to the mountains yet. Things are not were they need to be yet with regards to frequency, type and most importantly her desire/ initiating. She reciently tried to push back on my "wants" and I corrected her that they are my "needs". And needs can't be reduced, cutting back on my needs it's why I went into my depression and was no longer "fun me". If she wanted to negotiate down, I would have started in the wants level and negotiate down to my needs. So, time will tell what the long term behaviors will be. But, I would regret it if we didn't try. The clock is ticking though. |
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Post by shamwow on May 8, 2017 15:03:56 GMT -5
I am envious that your wife was at least willing to work on changing. It does lend itself to hope. Most of the rest of us go through the years waving the flag that our (reasonable) needs are not even close to being met only to discover the person we are waving the flag to is simply perplexed by our strange behavior. She is trying I am hoping it works out but I am not singing to the mountains yet. Things are not were they need to be yet with regards to frequency, type and most importantly her desire/ initiating. She reciently tried to push back on my "wants" and I corrected her that they are my "needs". And needs can't be reduced, cutting back on my needs it's why I went into my depression and was no longer "fun me". If she wanted to negotiate down, I would have started in the wants level and negotiate down to my needs. So, time will tell what the long term behaviors will be. But, I would regret it if we didn't try. The clock is ticking though. I get you. Still, I do envy that she is at least making an effort, even if it may eventually prove unsuccessful. Do you have any indication that the lack of desire is medical? If so is there anything that can be done for it? |
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Post by hopingforachange on May 8, 2017 15:14:39 GMT -5
She is trying I am hoping it works out but I am not singing to the mountains yet. Things are not were they need to be yet with regards to frequency, type and most importantly her desire/ initiating. She reciently tried to push back on my "wants" and I corrected her that they are my "needs". And needs can't be reduced, cutting back on my needs it's why I went into my depression and was no longer "fun me". If she wanted to negotiate down, I would have started in the wants level and negotiate down to my needs. So, time will tell what the long term behaviors will be. But, I would regret it if we didn't try. The clock is ticking though. I get you. Still, I do envy that she is at least making an effort, even if it may eventually prove unsuccessful. Do you have any indication that the lack of desire is medical? If so is there anything that can be done for it? Nope, hers is psychological, Sex is for procreation. So, when I said no more kids, the tap turned off. Since sex is is only for procreation, it explained why she didn't oral and other activities that wouldn't result in children. Which are part of my needs. |
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Post by shamwow on May 8, 2017 15:16:51 GMT -5
I get you. Still, I do envy that she is at least making an effort, even if it may eventually prove unsuccessful. Do you have any indication that the lack of desire is medical? If so is there anything that can be done for it? Nope, hers is psychological, Sex is for procreation. So, when I said no more kids, the tap turned off. Since sex is is only for procreation, it explained why she didn't oral and other activities that wouldn't result in children. Which are part of my needs. Sorry, brother. It is when I realized my STBX's issues were mental (in this regard...she isn't nuts) and not medical is when I kind of realized the game was up. Changing the psyche is much more difficult than remedying a physical malady. I truly do with you good luck. |
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appleaday
Junior Member
Posts: 95 
Age Range: 36-40
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Post by appleaday on May 8, 2017 15:42:53 GMT -5
I just wanted to vent a little about my frustrations this weekend. Last night was a work event I wanted to go to so I went with some coworkers and left the hubby at home. I can't remember the last time I socialized like this. My coworkers are serious parties and with the company picking up the tab there was definitely a lot of drinking. I haven't had more that a glass of wine in years and I had so much fun! At the same time I felt guilty for leaving the H at home with the kiddo while I went out, but he doesn't really enjoy socializing. I hadn't seen him all day and was hoping for a nice greeting when I got home. Instead he was cleaning and just said hey, I'm gonna finish this chore then go to bed. I sat on the couch, I was still pretty tipsy. He asked aren't you going to bed? I'm thinking, why? I can't even get a hug or a hey I missed you. Tonight was date night and we went to see Guardians of the Galaxy. Most the day I was thinking of bailing because date night seems like such a pretense. I ended going because, hey, at least I get to see a great movie. It was awesome by the way. We walked to the car and he opened the door. I told him, hey it's a date, how about a kiss? And we kissed and it was amazing. I miss those kisses, he smells and tastes amazing. But I have to make him kiss me. It's just so profoundly sad to me today. It's like, he isn't opposed to kissing, but he would never think of it himself. Just doesn't cross his mind. I told him, it's not a first date, you can kiss me. Hell you can even get laid tonight. He laughed and I knew that was hopeless. As I said, just wanting to vent. Switch the genders: and that is pretty much my story. Well, except I'm at the point where I don't even get my hopes up: I just go straight to disappointment. Well, except that I'm nearly numb to the disappointment: I just to straight to a sort of emptiness. At least that is better than sadness, right? No, it's not better. I actually think that's really sad. Who wants to go through life feeling numb? You deserve better than that. |
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Post by doneanddone on May 8, 2017 15:42:58 GMT -5
I just wanted to vent a little about my frustrations this weekend. Last night was a work event I wanted to go to so I went with some coworkers and left the hubby at home. I can't remember the last time I socialized like this. My coworkers are serious parties and with the company picking up the tab there was definitely a lot of drinking. I haven't had more that a glass of wine in years and I had so much fun! At the same time I felt guilty for leaving the H at home with the kiddo while I went out, but he doesn't really enjoy socializing. I hadn't seen him all day and was hoping for a nice greeting when I got home. Instead he was cleaning and just said hey, I'm gonna finish this chore then go to bed. I sat on the couch, I was still pretty tipsy. He asked aren't you going to bed? I'm thinking, why? I can't even get a hug or a hey I missed you. Tonight was date night and we went to see Guardians of the Galaxy. Most the day I was thinking of bailing because date night seems like such a pretense. I ended going because, hey, at least I get to see a great movie. It was awesome by the way. We walked to the car and he opened the door. I told him, hey it's a date, how about a kiss? And we kissed and it was amazing. I miss those kisses, he smells and tastes amazing. But I have to make him kiss me. It's just so profoundly sad to me today. It's like, he isn't opposed to kissing, but he would never think of it himself. Just doesn't cross his mind. I told him, it's not a first date, you can kiss me. Hell you can even get laid tonight. He laughed and I knew that was hopeless. As I said, just wanting to vent. very similar to my some of my situations. I've made comments like that to my wife before and she does the same thing. She'll shrug them off or play it off like it's no big deal to her. She knows its a big deal but doesn't want to address it. But she will be the first to address every other marriage problem we have. I wouldn't feel to bad about leaving him at home for the night. You need to get out and remember what it's like to be you outside of being married. I don't mean go hog wild and step out on your husband but you need to remember what it's like to have a life of your own separate but married. I've gone out without my wife a few times and it does give me the confidence to be more open about our SM conversations. She wants to shy away from them but being able to experience time away from her but not cheat on her or outsource simply to satisfy a "want" makes me all that more comfortable approaching her and whatever reasons or excuses she wants to give. I'm learning to adjust and not care based on her and what she does. For a long time I thought if i stick it out long enough I'll get some, or she'll cave eventually, or she's gonna get horny one night and then everything will be fine. Nope, that's not the case. She's never going to come around so I have to make the changes in my way of thinking and I have to change my approach to the whole situation. Now when i attempt to initiate an intimate moment or want to get close and cuddly with my wife and she shy's away or pulls back I'm just like "Ok. That's fine" and go about my business as if it had no effect on me which it's starting not to anymore. I did that the just yesterday and when she pulled back and I walked away she tried to stop me and ask why I was so quick to turn around and leave. I simply told her, "oh I didn't think you were into it so I left you alone" and walked off anyway. She had this look on her face like she had lost her best friend and in the back on my head I'm thinking....good, glad you feel like shit for once. |
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appleaday
Junior Member
Posts: 95
Age Range: 36-40
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Post by appleaday on May 8, 2017 15:48:59 GMT -5
Nope, hers is psychological, Sex is for procreation. So, when I said no more kids, the tap turned off. Since sex is is only for procreation, it explained why she didn't oral and other activities that wouldn't result in children. Which are part of my needs. Sorry, brother. It is when I realized my STBX's issues were mental (in this regard...she isn't nuts) and not medical is when I kind of realized the game was up. Changing the psyche is much more difficult than remedying a physical malady. I truly do with you good luck. I think it's the same for my hubby. It's totally mental. He just doesn't feel desire that way. I was nervous about it before we married because he was 36 and had almost no dating or sex experience. It was a red flag but I pushed the feeling away. Now I go through waves of hopelessness Followed by determination to overcome whatever his issues are. Of course, overcoming his mental blocks is up to him, not me. and only if he wants to. Hence the waves of hopelessness. |
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Post by shamwow on May 8, 2017 16:10:44 GMT -5
Sorry, brother. It is when I realized my STBX's issues were mental (in this regard...she isn't nuts) and not medical is when I kind of realized the game was up. Changing the psyche is much more difficult than remedying a physical malady. I truly do with you good luck. I think it's the same for my hubby. It's totally mental. He just doesn't feel desire that way. I was nervous about it before we married because he was 36 and had almost no dating or sex experience. It was a red flag but I pushed the feeling away. Now I go through waves of hopelessness Followed by determination to overcome whatever his issues are. Of course, overcoming his mental blocks is up to him, not me. and only if he wants to. Hence the waves of hopelessness. I though the same thing maybe for the first 10 years of our marriage. Finally those same waves of hopelessness threatened to overwhelm me. Now I find myself going through divorce, I know she couldn't have been "changed" |
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Post by greatcoastal on May 8, 2017 17:53:57 GMT -5
I think it's the same for my hubby. It's totally mental. He just doesn't feel desire that way. I was nervous about it before we married because he was 36 and had almost no dating or sex experience. It was a red flag but I pushed the feeling away. Now I go through waves of hopelessness Followed by determination to overcome whatever his issues are. Of course, overcoming his mental blocks is up to him, not me. and only if he wants to. Hence the waves of hopelessness. I though the same thing maybe for the first 10 years of our marriage. Finally those same waves of hopelessness threatened to overwhelm me. Now I find myself going through divorce, I know she couldn't have been "changed" Right there with you guys! It reminds me of the postings from beachguy about asexual, greysexuals, etc... The bright side is that we are not going to worry about them running out and having an affair. No wondering if they were out scoping others. Little concern that we didn't perform well enough. Understanding that is their problem, their choice, and nothing you could have changed. They should be thankful that we gave them decades of unconditional love. The odds are in our favor that there are other givers with sexual desires, like us. |
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Post by Apocrypha on May 9, 2017 12:20:56 GMT -5
I though the same thing maybe for the first 10 years of our marriage. Finally those same waves of hopelessness threatened to overwhelm me. Now I find myself going through divorce, I know she couldn't have been "changed" Right there with you guys! It reminds me of the postings from beachguy about asexual, greysexuals, etc... The bright side is that we are not going to worry about them running out and having an affair. No wondering if they were out scoping others. Like my "asexual" wife did? Or my buddy's bookish asexual wife, who constantly flirts with me when she is alone? This is kind of a good illustration on why results and evidence-based feedback tends to be superior to chasing "why?" as a rhetorical exercise. People really aren't very good at articulating motives when those motives aren't aligned to intention. If the intention is to "stay in the relationship" but the motive is to "avoid romantic expression with that person", things get very hard to sort out to make them both fit. When asked to account, they will naturally come back with a list of whatever stresses are in their lives, such as they are, or whatever they might not like about a person. It's a response that ends the discussion, but fixing that problem likely doesn't turn into the pursuit of romantic affection. Instead, the next gripe gets pulled from the deck, and so on. Desire is not formed from an absence of gripes. It's often formed in spite of them. It's not even uncommon in my dating experience as a separated man, to discover stories in which many women (or as they describe, their husbands) going off sex, and then following that relationship, having sex again. You get all these stories fixed on asexuality as the core issue of the misalignment, and then following the marriage - it turns out that's not the case at all. |
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Post by mrslowmaintenance on May 9, 2017 22:01:54 GMT -5
Right there with you guys! It reminds me of the postings from beachguy about asexual, greysexuals, etc... The bright side is that we are not going to worry about them running out and having an affair. No wondering if they were out scoping others. Like my "asexual" wife did? Or my buddy's bookish asexual wife, who constantly flirts with me when she is alone? This is kind of a good illustration on why results and evidence-based feedback tends to be superior to chasing "why?" as a rhetorical exercise. People really aren't very good at articulating motives when those motives aren't aligned to intention. If the intention is to "stay in the relationship" but the motive is to "avoid romantic expression with that person", things get very hard to sort out to make them both fit. When asked to account, they will naturally come back with a list of whatever stresses are in their lives, such as they are, or whatever they might not like about a person. It's a response that ends the discussion, but fixing that problem likely doesn't turn into the pursuit of romantic affection. Instead, the next gripe gets pulled from the deck, and so on. Desire is not formed from an absence of gripes. It's often formed in spite of them. It's not even uncommon in my dating experience as a separated man, to discover stories in which many women (or as they describe, their husbands) going off sex, and then following that relationship, having sex again. You get all these stories fixed on asexuality as the core issue of the misalignment, and then following the marriage - it turns out that's not the case at all. This is exactly what makes me so sad, and honestly scared. If my H and I were to ever separate ...I could see him finding women like crazy and having wonderful sex and relationships and me alone. That is so sad to me, and I know it is exceedingly selfish and awful but it is the truth. I want to be happy, and us to be happy together, but if we were to be apart I don't want to be unhappy while he is even more happy than he is now. I feel like a horrible person for actually typing that out though. |
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Post by merrygoround on May 9, 2017 22:40:57 GMT -5
Like my "asexual" wife did? Or my buddy's bookish asexual wife, who constantly flirts with me when she is alone? This is kind of a good illustration on why results and evidence-based feedback tends to be superior to chasing "why?" as a rhetorical exercise. People really aren't very good at articulating motives when those motives aren't aligned to intention. If the intention is to "stay in the relationship" but the motive is to "avoid romantic expression with that person", things get very hard to sort out to make them both fit. When asked to account, they will naturally come back with a list of whatever stresses are in their lives, such as they are, or whatever they might not like about a person. It's a response that ends the discussion, but fixing that problem likely doesn't turn into the pursuit of romantic affection. Instead, the next gripe gets pulled from the deck, and so on. Desire is not formed from an absence of gripes. It's often formed in spite of them. It's not even uncommon in my dating experience as a separated man, to discover stories in which many women (or as they describe, their husbands) going off sex, and then following that relationship, having sex again. You get all these stories fixed on asexuality as the core issue of the misalignment, and then following the marriage - it turns out that's not the case at all. This is exactly what makes me so sad, and honestly scared. If my H and I were to ever separate ...I could see him finding women like crazy and having wonderful sex and relationships and me alone. That is so sad to me, and I know it is exceedingly selfish and awful but it is the truth. I want to be happy, and us to be happy together, but if we were to be apart I don't want to be unhappy while he is even more happy than he is now. I feel like a horrible person for actually typing that out though. I understand what you are saying here completely - however how many years have you been in this situation? How many times have you tried to turn it around? And to what end? I'm assuming many - sorry do not know your whole story but you are here with the rest of us! When I spoke to the doc yesterday, I did say look, maybe in the future he will find someone and want a fulfilling sex life with them. She said - that is extremely doubtful. It's the way he is. I guess the best your H could find in the future is someone who is aligned with what he wants in a relationship. His level of intimacy etc. She also said to me look, you're an attractive and intelligent woman, well put together. You're doing this at the right time - do you want another 20 years of this?! Smart cookie, that doctor. I guess what I'm trying to say is that it's time to take care of YOU. The guilt and anger and emotions of what could have been or might be in the future are just "what ifs" Hugs x |
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