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Post by doneanddone on Apr 26, 2017 12:52:15 GMT -5
One of the women, one of my best friends in the entire world that I would drop everything for, including my wife but not in a sexual nature, was a little tipsy and told my wife that we needed to have another baby before I ended up getting someone else pregnant.....all joking.....my wife knows this women and knows how she jokes like this all the time. But ever since that one time, she will always throw that into whatever argument we are having just as a reminder and to use as an excuse for no sex. Can I ask why you are married then? What is the point of having a wife if you put this best friend of yours BEFORE her? I guess I don't get that. And that comment DOES hurt your marriage. It certainly doesn't protect it. Your friend doesn't seem to protect your marriage or respect it. If my husband's co-worker said that we would be having one serious fucking conversation and it wouldn't be based on "jealousy" but an uber red flag. You would drop your wife in a heartbeat for this friend of yours. How can you have a long lasting loving marriage? That is a powerful intention underlying everything. Sorry -- just my crazy opinion. I will feel horrible for stating it as soon as I hit submit. You can tell me to f'-off. I just think really differently than some, I think. It's hard to interpret content and intent with written words. Let me try it like this. She is one of my longest and best friends and I would drop everything if she needed me, but in no way would there ever be anything sexual between me and my friend. Besides, I respect her to much and then.......euh.... no way. Dropping my wife comment was just a jab at her now than before early on in our marriage. It's a brother sister type friendship i have with her and my wife knows that, believes that, and trusts that. Unfortunately, that is the on thing my wife hangs onto and throws around in arguments just because she doesn't any other excuse to bail her out of taking and accepting responsibility in whatever the argument is about. I may not be married for long if things don't change. I get we all think differently but this is one of those situations that you just have to be in my shoes to understand the type of friendships I have. And don't f-off, I like the feedback. lol |
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Post by WindSister on Apr 26, 2017 13:01:20 GMT -5
Can I ask why you are married then? What is the point of having a wife if you put this best friend of yours BEFORE her? I guess I don't get that. And that comment DOES hurt your marriage. It certainly doesn't protect it. Your friend doesn't seem to protect your marriage or respect it. If my husband's co-worker said that we would be having one serious fucking conversation and it wouldn't be based on "jealousy" but an uber red flag. You would drop your wife in a heartbeat for this friend of yours. How can you have a long lasting loving marriage? That is a powerful intention underlying everything. Sorry -- just my crazy opinion. I will feel horrible for stating it as soon as I hit submit. You can tell me to f'-off. I just think really differently than some, I think. It's hard to interpret content and intent with written words. Let me try it like this. She is one of my longest and best friends and I would drop everything if she needed me, but in no way would there ever be anything sexual between me and my friend. Besides, I respect her to much and then.......euh.... no way. Dropping my wife comment was just a jab at her now than before early on in our marriage. It's a brother sister type friendship i have with her and my wife knows that, believes that, and trusts that. Unfortunately, that is the on thing my wife hangs onto and throws around in arguments just because she doesn't any other excuse to bail her out of taking and accepting responsibility in whatever the argument is about. I may not be married for long if things don't change. I get we all think differently but this is one of those situations that you just have to be in my shoes to understand the type of friendships I have. And don't f-off, I like the feedback. lol Okay -- I did figure that would be the direction you would go. Just giving something to think about. Sexlessness takes a toll and the relationship does start to suffer and our priorities, rightfully so, do change. A SM is not a healthy one so I was off for stating my thought on it like I did in the first place. Yes, if she was taking ownership she could use that comment that appears to have hurt her to learn more, grow, instead of just blame you or "use it" to punish you or shut you down. |
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Post by doneanddone on Apr 26, 2017 13:06:46 GMT -5
It's hard to interpret content and intent with written words. Let me try it like this. She is one of my longest and best friends and I would drop everything if she needed me, but in no way would there ever be anything sexual between me and my friend. Besides, I respect her to much and then.......euh.... no way. Dropping my wife comment was just a jab at her now than before early on in our marriage. It's a brother sister type friendship i have with her and my wife knows that, believes that, and trusts that. Unfortunately, that is the on thing my wife hangs onto and throws around in arguments just because she doesn't any other excuse to bail her out of taking and accepting responsibility in whatever the argument is about. I may not be married for long if things don't change. I get we all think differently but this is one of those situations that you just have to be in my shoes to understand the type of friendships I have. And don't f-off, I like the feedback. lol Okay -- I did figure that would be the direction you would go. Just giving something to think about. Sexlessness takes a toll and the relationship does start to suffer and our priorities, rightfully so, do change. A SM is not a healthy one so I was off for stating my thought on it like I did in the first place. Yes, if she was taking ownership she could use that comment that appears to have hurt her to learn more, grow, instead of just blame you or "use it" to punish you or shut you down. Now we're on the same page.....! |
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Post by Rhapsodee on Apr 26, 2017 15:53:03 GMT -5
Sorry -- another long drivel from me.... this topic fascinates me.. just sharing: My husband and I may be very old fashioned here and I know "old fashioned" is not necessarily a "good thing" as things were messed up back in the day, so maybe we carry forth the values without the facade (as in, we actually believe in what we are doing, not faking it for "show"). We are actually looked down upon for having old fashioned values because in today's world it's all about "the individual" - the "I". We believe marriage is all about "the we" - "the couple" - "us" before "I." We actually had hours and hours of conversation about this before we got married to make sure we were on the same page. Anyway, so we protect and value our marriage before our individual "self." (that sentence is one we landed on together as a definition for our marriage). Don't shake your head or start to lecture me. IN DOING THAT that means we also take care of "ourselves" FOR the sake of our marriage. Kapeesh?!?!?! But, it's a subtle shift of thought -- a subtle shift of intention from believing we are "individuals" to believing we are "a couple" and I feel it makes us stronger for it. We truly act with this at the core of the driving force behind our behavior. My first marriage we were very independent creatures and I don't feel that did anything good. Why be married if it doesn't make you bigger/better than you are on your own??? (I know we saw that somewhere on these boards). Why be married if you don't care what the other is doing, saying, hanging out with? (or having an affair??? ugh... I would SO CARE). We offer each other privacy but with that we also offer each other transparency. We have accounts, passwords of each other. He could read this if he wants. I haven't logged into his facebook nor looked at his phone. He says he hasn't looked at mine. I don't need to know what he is saying to his best friend or sister or kids or even the female staff who text sometimes if they are sick, etc. He often tells me or shows me those ones, but sometimes he doesn't and that's okay. I do trust him but that comes from him being transparent with me, too. We both give each other permission to look but neither of us have. I feel lies corrode a relationship, even little ones, over time. This marriage really has made me bigger, better because I used to be kind of a sketchy person. I told my husband this, too. But in my previous marriage it was all about looking out for yourself. So I did hide some things from my ex (a lot of things, actually). That eats away at you in weird ways over time and causes big damage to your spirit and especially your relationship. I am finding it so much more freeing to be honest and 100% open. AND STILL LOVED - flaws, quirks, mistakes and all. When I told my husband (who was just a boyfriend then, we were contemplating moving in together) all about my debt (that I was tempted to hide from him) I was sweating profusely, palms wet, heart beating, etc. But he was so matter-of-fact about it. He looked at my credit report (which was so very sad) and said, 'Well, you have some work to do, but I will help you do it." He helped by coaching - not giving money-- lol. I Listened. I now have credit that's getting better every quarter.  He loved me flaws and all. But I responded by bettering myself for US. (that's just one example). If I had continued to be sketchy with money, he'd have good damn reason to dump my ass. Intimacy is all about vulnerability - not just "acting intimate." With vulnerability comes the responsibility of being open and honest and transparent. I don't see how we can have both at the same time -- secrecy, lies, private life vs. married life and have intimacy at the same time. Not saying "my current truths" are truth for all -- just sharing what I am experiencing or have experienced. So your current marriage is not sexless but your previous one was? I don't think you're old fashioned at all. I think you are with a good man that makes you want to be a good wife. He makes you feel a part of him. That's beautiful. It's what we all want. It doesn't mean that you can't let him keep parts of himself to himself, or that you can't have your own private domains. If a person isn't allowed privacy, they will start hiding. First it starts with silly things, meaningless things like slipping a cookie into your pocket to eat later when you are riding in the car alone. We all need our privacy. It's where we grow. |
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Post by WindSister on Apr 26, 2017 16:07:39 GMT -5
rhapsodee . Yes I agree with you. Sometimes I have to put on my SM glasses to remember what that was like before I post a response. I agree to a point we all need privacy but when does it go from slipping a cookie to having secret dating apps and hiding texts? Or even having a secret phone and number? Hmmm.... I still believe transparency, openness and honesty creates the most friendly environment for actual intimacy. Ever watch Dexter? A serial killer trying to blend in life. The only people he can be fully intimate with (not sexual) are his victims because they are the only ones who see the REAL him. With everyone else it's an act. Something to be said for that.
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Post by dancingbear70 on Apr 26, 2017 16:25:17 GMT -5
Sorry -- another long drivel from me.... this topic fascinates me.. just sharing: My husband and I may be very old fashioned here and I know "old fashioned" is not necessarily a "good thing" as things were messed up back in the day, so maybe we carry forth the values without the facade (as in, we actually believe in what we are doing, not faking it for "show"). We are actually looked down upon for having old fashioned values because in today's world it's all about "the individual" - the "I". We believe marriage is all about "the we" - "the couple" - "us" before "I." [clip] My first marriage we were very independent creatures and I don't feel that did anything good. Why be married if it doesn't make you bigger/better than you are on your own??? (I know we saw that somewhere on these boards). Why be married if you don't care what the other is doing, saying, hanging out with? (or having an affair??? ugh... I would SO CARE). We offer each other privacy but with that we also offer each other transparency. We have accounts, passwords of each other. He could read this if he wants. [clip] I tried to find appropriate places to clip the post. Sorry in advance if anything is out of context. I have to tell you that what you describe in your post sounds great. It is idyllic and I am happy for you. But to me it is by far the exception and not the rule. And maybe to some extent, still the honeymoon phase. I can tell you that even when I was in the honeymoon phase, I firmly believed in maintaining individuality *while* being an "us". If the "us" is strong and healthy, then the individual may not be as evident, but I think it is always there. I have also come to believe that while these sorts of dynamics are what we are taught and judged against, they are modern social constructs that strain against human nature. And worse, they are set up for harsh judgement upon eventual and probable failure. And those of us in sexless marriages (this is iliasm after all), are already not in ideal space. So to that audience, I would affirm my believe that privacy and security are vital components of whatever coping mechanism you use. I encourage everyone to exercise it at the highest levels. |
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Post by Rhapsodee on Apr 26, 2017 16:54:24 GMT -5
WindSister , being sexless changes everything. There can be no transparency. It makes the refuser a bully and the refused pathetic. To be sexually refused by the person that swore to love you makes you crazy. A part of you dies. You go through the stages of grief. You lose your dignity. You need that privacy to find ways to survive, reasons to live. Its a refuge. It's a fortress of protection from the source of pain. For a refuser to callously invade that privacy, demand that the rejected one live a sterile life just because the refuser has decided it will be so, is a further violation. For gods sake we need our privacy to mourn, soothe ourselves and survive while we search for the way out. I am not going to be transparent with him. He doesn't give a fig about my sexual needs. He has no right to invade my fortress. It is all I have. I will defend it. I will protect myself.
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Post by novembercomingfire on Apr 26, 2017 18:12:41 GMT -5
WindSister , being sexless changes everything. There can be no transparency. It makes the refuser a bully and the refused pathetic. To be sexually refused by the person that swore to love you makes you crazy. A part of you dies. You go through the stages of grief. You lose your dignity. You need that privacy to find ways to survive, reasons to live. Its a refuge. It's a fortress of protection from the source of pain. For a refuser to callously invade that privacy, demand that the rejected one live a sterile life just because the refuser has decided it will be so, is a further violation. For gods sake we need our privacy to mourn, soothe ourselves and survive while we search for the way out. I am not going to be transparent with him. He doesn't give a fig about my sexual needs. He has no right to invade my fortress. It is all I have. I will defend it. I will protect myself. This was quite inspiring to me. Thank you. |
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appleaday
Junior Member
Posts: 95 
Age Range: 36-40
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Post by appleaday on Apr 26, 2017 18:39:38 GMT -5
WindSister , being sexless changes everything. There can be no transparency. It makes the refuser a bully and the refused pathetic. To be sexually refused by the person that swore to love you makes you crazy. A part of you dies. You go through the stages of grief. You lose your dignity. You need that privacy to find ways to survive, reasons to live. Its a refuge. It's a fortress of protection from the source of pain. For a refuser to callously invade that privacy, demand that the rejected one live a sterile life just because the refuser has decided it will be so, is a further violation. For gods sake we need our privacy to mourn, soothe ourselves and survive while we search for the way out. I am not going to be transparent with him. He doesn't give a fig about my sexual needs. He has no right to invade my fortress. It is all I have. I will defend it. I will protect myself. Damn, the honesty of that brought tears to my eyes. It's still hard for me to accept the state of my sexless marriage. I have been living in denial for years and I do t know yet if I am ready to accept it. This place and posts like this are really opening my eyes. |
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Post by solodriver on Apr 26, 2017 18:50:30 GMT -5
WindSister , being sexless changes everything. There can be no transparency. It makes the refuser a bully and the refused pathetic. To be sexually refused by the person that swore to love you makes you crazy. A part of you dies. You go through the stages of grief. You lose your dignity. You need that privacy to find ways to survive, reasons to live. Its a refuge. It's a fortress of protection from the source of pain. For a refuser to callously invade that privacy, demand that the rejected one live a sterile life just because the refuser has decided it will be so, is a further violation. For gods sake we need our privacy to mourn, soothe ourselves and survive while we search for the way out. I am not going to be transparent with him. He doesn't give a fig about my sexual needs. He has no right to invade my fortress. It is all I have. I will defend it. I will protect myself. AMEN Sister Rhapsodee!!!!
Please excuse the religious tone.
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Post by WindSister on Apr 26, 2017 18:56:52 GMT -5
rhapsodee. I get it. Totally. Key words for me in your post are "while on the way out." I cheated on my ex (I call it what it is) (it was the last six months of our marriage). He also cheated me (of sex in our marriage). i had an affair partner that was also married. We almost got caught once... ask me how much that sucked. I get it. I lived it. Really. i don't know my point here. So, I will stop. (you are welcome... lol). Plus, I am home now and want to watch a couple Dexters with my man. Have a good night everyone. I'm just offering my lived and learned experiences Maybe to consider for the next relationship? I still say intimacy feels better with honesty, transparency, trust and openness and I'll be sad if that only lasts a few years.
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Post by Rhapsodee on Apr 26, 2017 19:07:03 GMT -5
rhapsodee. I get it. Totally. Key words for me in your post are "while on the way out." I cheated on my ex (I call it what it is) (it was the last six months of our marriage). He also cheated me (of sex in our marriage). i had an affair partner that was also married. We almost got caught once... ask me how much that sucked. I get it. I lived it. Really. i don't know my point here. So, I will stop. (you are welcome... lol). Plus, I am home now and want to watch a couple Dexters with my man. Have a good night everyone. I'm just offering my lived and learned experiences Maybe to consider for the next relationship? I still say intimacy feels better with honesty, transparency, trust and openness and I'll be sad if that only lasts a few years. 😊 |
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Post by solodriver on Apr 26, 2017 19:08:39 GMT -5
Until I joined this group, I had no one to share my thoughts with, because my wife did not want to even discuss our sex and relationship.
Having a completely private life with the dear friends I've made and enjoy on here has made all the difference in the world. I can deal with the situation until I figure out what I want to do next. It gives me the strength to go though each day without being sad and depressed thinking about it. I enjoy my private life here and in the other forum that has recently been started. I'm free to talk about those things that I use to enjoy talking to my wife about but has since shut down talking about. I feel alive and feel like there is something to look forward to in my future and am excited about those possibilities.
Like Rhapsodee said, a sexless marriage and being refused by your spouse changes everything. We, who are in sexless marriages, are truly survivors and this forum and group is the place to do that without feeling bad because we're "hiding" it from our spouse. If our refusers loved us the way we need to be loved, none of the privacy and secrecy would even be necessary.
Our refusers caused us to have to create private places for us to go to!! |
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Post by Rhapsodee on Apr 26, 2017 19:11:15 GMT -5
Until I joined this group, I had no one to share my thoughts with, because my wife did not want to even discuss our sex and relationship.
Having a completely private life with the dear friends I've made and enjoy on here has made all the difference in the world. I can deal with the situation until I figure out what I want to do next. It gives me the strength to go though each day without being sad and depressed thinking about it. I enjoy my private life here and in the other forum that has recently been started. I'm free to talk about those things that I use to enjoy talking to my wife about but has since shut down talking about. I feel alive and feel like there is something to look forward to in my future and am excited about those possibilities.
Like Rhapsodee said, a sexless marriage and being refused by your spouse changes everything. We, who are in sexless marriages, are truly survivors and this forum and group is the place to do that without feeling bad because we're "hiding" it from our spouse. If our refusers loved us the way we need to be loved, none of the privacy and secrecy would even be necessary.
Our refusers caused us to have to create private places for us to go to!! Hey! Well put! That's really good! |
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Post by bballgirl on Apr 26, 2017 19:15:30 GMT -5
WindSister , being sexless changes everything. There can be no transparency. It makes the refuser a bully and the refused pathetic. To be sexually refused by the person that swore to love you makes you crazy. A part of you dies. You go through the stages of grief. You lose your dignity. You need that privacy to find ways to survive, reasons to live. Its a refuge. It's a fortress of protection from the source of pain. For a refuser to callously invade that privacy, demand that the rejected one live a sterile life just because the refuser has decided it will be so, is a further violation. For gods sake we need our privacy to mourn, soothe ourselves and survive while we search for the way out. I am not going to be transparent with him. He doesn't give a fig about my sexual needs. He has no right to invade my fortress. It is all I have. I will defend it. I will protect myself. Yes and the lack of transparency usually starts with the refuser because in most cases they are not honest. They do not tell the truth about why they don't want sex or intimacy with us. They are full of excuses and never have reasons. Unfortunately they are masters of manipulation and use our kindness for weakness and the years turn into decades. I actually believed his excuses, thought there was something wrong with me, and hit rock bottom until I found EP. EP lifted the fog. Yeah transparency went out the window a long time ago I just didn't know it. Now I do, better late than never and yes life in a SM is coping with life. Beautiful post you wrote! |
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He loved me flaws and all. But I responded by bettering myself for US. (that's just one example). If I had continued to be sketchy with money, he'd have good damn reason to dump my ass. 
