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Post by doneanddone on Apr 25, 2017 14:34:10 GMT -5
I've tried every approach imaginable to open the lines of communication about out SM to my wife. I don't think she really cares about sex anymore to be honest. How would anyone go about starting the conversation about the SM with your spouse if it hasn't already started?
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Post by shamwow on Apr 25, 2017 14:48:59 GMT -5
I guess the approach depends upon your level of unhappiness and what you will think will come about if things don't change.
In my case, the last "talk" prior to asking for a divorce involved being in a hotel room in the Bahamas where I basically broke down, explained that we were nothing more than roommates, and something needed to change. At this point, she had not said the words "I love you" in 11 years either, and I brought this up.
The next "talk" came a year and a half later. No changes had happened and now I was asking for a divorce.
I think when I had this discussion I made a few mistakes. First of all, I did not give specific requests. They were more wishy-washy such as "I'd like to have sex more" rather than I need to average sex X times per X. I should have let her know that this is a deal breaker and that if this doesn't change within X period of time, I would be seeking a divorce.
If you think that this is extremely difficult and blunt, keep in mind that earlier this year I DID tell her I want a divorce. Two weeks ago I had to tell our kids that Mom and I are getting divorced and we will need to sell the house. Yesterday the paperwork was filed with the court. If you don't like the hard/blunt conversation regarding being in a SM, you will definitely NOT like the subsequent much more difficult conversations that may occur as a result of avoiding it.
I thought that breaking down crying (only had done so 4 times in my adult life at that time) should have been enough of a warning siren to induce change. It was not since I didn't communicate my needs clearly. If I had done so, perhaps she would have moved in my direction and I could have moved in hers.
My advice is to be clear on what you want, firm on how much it matters, and what the likely consequences will be for inaction. THAT is communication. No guarantees it will work, but at least you can't be told later that they had no warning.
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Post by bballgirl on Apr 25, 2017 14:51:24 GMT -5
That depends on what the objective is:
If I wanted a divorce I would say:
I'm not in love with you anymore and I don't want to be your spouse anymore.
This marriage is past the point of return and not repairable and we are not compatible.
I have already contacted an attorney and I suggest you do the same.
If I was still in love and attracted to my spouse I would say:
I love you and I want you and sex, intimacy, and affection is an important part of marriage. This marriage is in crisis and it needs to change drastically if we are going to have a chance to continue this marriage.
You need to do x, y and z at least once a week with enthusiasm.
There are two kinds of love: romantic love and the love we have for friends, family and children. The difference is one we make love to and the rest we don't. Romantic love is what makes a marriage different from any other relationship. We are either compatible or we are not. You are either with me or your not.
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Post by hopingforachange on Apr 25, 2017 15:16:09 GMT -5
I am taking the approach that I have already lost everything and working on getting it back. She will either be with me or will be divorced.
I had a break down and made the decision that this has to end, I gave and sacrificed and suppressed my feelings until I was depressed.
The wife is not happy because I am not giving in and rolling over like before. She described it as a "mid life crises" but it was me hitting the low point and song what is needed for my self to be happy.
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Post by baza on Apr 25, 2017 17:14:18 GMT -5
Your "every approach imaginable" has thus far lead you to observe that you - "don't think she really cares about sex anymore". That seems like a reasonable assumption to make Brother doneanddone There does not seem to be a real lot of point in trying some "new" approach to find an answer, given that you have already found the answer. She ain't interested. It appears that you probably now need to move on to the next question. This question is the one you ask yourself (not her). "What now ?" |
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Post by Venus Erotes on Apr 25, 2017 18:35:49 GMT -5
When I had the talk - I started with - I don't think we are connecting. Of course that lead to a conversation about the sex abuse he suffered at the hands of a camp counselor, and my pointing out that he told me to stop kissing him on OUR WEDDING DAY.
There's no easy way, especially if it's not something that has previously been discussed.
I had always mentioned sex and he always ignored it, or blew it off as not important. He was raised to think sex was not natural, not normal, and only for making babies. Of course all exacerbated by the sexual abuse. Ah the 60's. What a fucked up time. His last experience of being sexually abuse was the night Neil Armstrong walked on the moon.... One small step. Nothing like a major piece of American history to remind you almost every year what happened that night, huh?
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Post by worksforme2 on Apr 25, 2017 19:58:45 GMT -5
I used what is probably the usual approach..."we need to talk"....then I went on to say to her how unhappy I was with the state of the marriage due to the lack of intimacy. I ask her why she was so avoidant, if I had done something wrong, or disappointed her? Lots of questions from me and not much in the way of answers other than she just wasn't interested anymore. We had this kind of talk every other month or so with me becoming more definitive each time about how dysfunctional things were and that we needed to work on fixing it. Invariably reset sex for a week or 2 would follow and then back to business as usual. I finally had 3 talks with her about me having a FWB in a last ditch effort to hold things together, but that was a deal breaker for her. Eventually I reached a point that I blew it up and ended things. Conclusion: If you have reached this stage in your marriage it's unlikely you can turn things around. Not impossible mind you, just unlikely.
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Post by mrslowmaintenance on Apr 25, 2017 20:42:32 GMT -5
When I first brought up the serious discussion, many eons ago, I asked him if he thought it was normal to never have sex.
Another time I asked him if he has realized I have been asking to have sex every day for four months
Another time I was passive aggressive and said I wouldn't do "insert favor" until he attended to my needs because I was done doing things for him that takes five times as long as giving me his dick.
Other times he has asked what's wrong, I will tell him it's been too long or I am distractingly horny or I don't want you to touch me be side it hurts my feelings...
Ultimately, there are a lot of ways to bring it up, I do A LOT, you just have to be ready to talk about it and not be pushed around.
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Post by GeekGoddess on Apr 25, 2017 22:14:45 GMT -5
After I found EP, I had built up some courage to have a talk about other forms of pleasuring me. Well - some of the courage had to come from alcohol, so I hadn't done a thorough job inside my own head, I suppose.
But I got tipsy & kept trying to bring it up. I couldn't- until I was past tipsy & into the "drunk" part of the night.
So it went badly.
I did remember near-yelling "I have to have sex with SOMEBODY"
Of the whole conversation, he barely responded to any of my words, but this piece. This little nugget, he latched onto & got defensive over. Acted as if I was threatening an affair. Because of his history with wife 1, this was unfair of me & he let me know that. (I wasn't threatening it. I was trying to convey the intensity of my desperation.)
He promised we could go to the sex store together that weekend. By Saturday morning he forgot about it. I went alone. I still have that vibe, too (& others, now that I've left).
He never did see it, use it, see me use it. Last weekend I had a visitor & it was the first time I ever had someone else use a toy on me (ok: in is the correct word, I guess).
Point one: be clear.
Point two: be clearheaded. If you think you have to drink to get your nerve up for it, then you aren't really ready to have the conversation.
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Post by greatcoastal on Apr 25, 2017 22:23:01 GMT -5
I've tried every approach imaginable to open the lines of communication about out SM to my wife. I don't think she really cares about sex anymore to be honest. How would anyone go about starting the conversation about the SM with your spouse if it hasn't already started? Im going to answer your question with questions. How does your wife respond when you start conversations about other areas of your life that the two of you disagree on? (money, sports, entertainment, politics, relatives, friends, holidays,vacations,children,household chores, self esteem, love languages, etc...) Does she DARVO you? Deny things, argue, avoid it, reverse the entire subject blaming you for things where you feel like she is the victim and you have offended her? Does she have constant control over everything? Does she wish you would take control, but the moment you do she has to remain in control, and things have to be her way? Or do you have complete control over every aspect of your marriage, and this is the one thing she uses to attempt to have a voice? Just to add to the stories. We had our conversations with a therapist. My wife's answers about intimacy where, "I don't see the need for it. It's not that important. It really doesn't matter to me." When asked if any of the blame was hers? She said, " well ,maybe there's a chance, that she might could work on it, possibly, a little!". How do you go any further with a response like that! Foolishly I did! After a re-set weekend filled with devastating remarks, I offered her we schedule "once a week". She changed the subject, i steered it right back. She said, "I don't think I will ever be ready for that!" The next season we filled for divorce. My court date is next week. |
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Post by doneanddone on Apr 26, 2017 11:50:09 GMT -5
I've tried every approach imaginable to open the lines of communication about out SM to my wife. I don't think she really cares about sex anymore to be honest. How would anyone go about starting the conversation about the SM with your spouse if it hasn't already started? So a follow up to the beginning of this thread. Last night, I made another attempt to open the lines of communication about our SM. It seemed to be off to a good start with me simply asking the question, is there something going on now that has caused our sex life to become non-existent? She started off with what i would say are the best intentions. But as the conversation went on I became aware of the fact that not once did she outwardly say the words "I do want to have sex with you". She said several times that she does enjoy sex, she thinks about sex, she likes sex....but not once did she ever come out and say specifically that she wanted to have sex with me. She went on the explain about the interpretation of intimacy from a women's view point and a mans view point and we are more than likely on different ends of the intimacy spectrum. She wants the holding hands, cuddling, sneak a kiss in from time to time intimacy and her believe was my interpretation of intimacy was just getting in on every time I wanted to or felt like it. Couldn't be further than the truth. I picked up on this our last go round of conversations about SM. So, i made the adjustments. I do hold her hand, i do give back massages with out any intentions of wanting or initiating sex, i do cuddle next to her on the couch.....so where did i miss the part about her wanting to have sex with me. Oh yeah I didn't miss it because she never said it. Then she goes on to talk about the biggest hindrance which would be getting pregnant again and not wanting to. And she all but admitted that she has never been in a position to enjoy sex without a purpose, meaning when we were trying to get pregnant she enjoyed it because that was the reason for having sex, before we were trying to get pregnant we were having sex and she enjoyed it because she was on birth control so for her now she can't enjoy it without thinking omg what if i get pregnant. When i pressed her for the option of 'there are other things we can do that don't involve the D in the P' she all but avoided that as well saying that we were to do that what would stop me from wanting to go all the way which then she says that's what she thinks about when it comes to sex. I guess the point to this follow up is that it is slowly becoming more clear to me that I am not the reason but she is and will never take ownership of it. I just feel as if i can get on the right track of conversation I can kick the door in and she will all but be exposed and come clean about it all. Thoughts...... |
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Post by WindSister on Apr 26, 2017 12:02:42 GMT -5
I moved myself into the guest room one day while he was at work, so I may have taken a dramatic approach. I said, "Since we are acting like roommates, nothing more, we can have separate bedrooms." This was a shocker to him. Led to us trying to talk about it all. It was scary for me to do, but it felt right. I lived in the guest room for a few months and then we had the reset sex and I moved back in the main bedroom with him. Stayed there for 12 months but nothing really was changing despite talking about it. Same ole issues. I asked him what he wanted from me sexually and he literally shrugged his shoulders and said, "I don't know... nothing..... I am happy." And I STILL TRIED TO WORK IT OUT AFTER THAT. (duh)
Finally I left for a hotel for 5 days. We talked on the fifth day and decided on divorce.
So there is no one way to do it but to just do it how feels right to you and your circumstance. But DO IT. Actually talk. Actually be open and honest and direct. And, pay attention what you get in return. Good luck to you....
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Post by mrslowmaintenance on Apr 26, 2017 12:06:32 GMT -5
First of all, good job taking about it! Now I'm going to ask some things here
1. Did she acknowledge all of the cuddling/hand holding/touch changes you have made since your last talk? Is she saying she needs more of that or that that is all she wants from you?
2. Based on her saying she likes sex, things about it and enjoys it, have you thought she may be having an affair?
3. If getting pregnant is a concern, have you considered a vasectomy?
4. What do you mean when you said this
"what would stop me from wanting to go all the way which then she says that's what she thinks about when it comes to sex"? I'm unsure what you/she means about going all the way, what's all the way? Sex? Because that would be a big f*"kin duh!
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Post by WindSister on Apr 26, 2017 12:13:08 GMT -5
I've tried every approach imaginable to open the lines of communication about out SM to my wife. I don't think she really cares about sex anymore to be honest. How would anyone go about starting the conversation about the SM with your spouse if it hasn't already started? So a follow up to the beginning of this thread. Last night, I made another attempt to open the lines of communication about our SM. It seemed to be off to a good start with me simply asking the question, is there something going on now that has caused our sex life to become non-existent? She started off with what i would say are the best intentions. But as the conversation went on I became aware of the fact that not once did she outwardly say the words "I do want to have sex with you". She said several times that she does enjoy sex, she thinks about sex, she likes sex....but not once did she ever come out and say specifically that she wanted to have sex with me. She went on the explain about the interpretation of intimacy from a women's view point and a mans view point and we are more than likely on different ends of the intimacy spectrum. She wants the holding hands, cuddling, sneak a kiss in from time to time intimacy and her believe was my interpretation of intimacy was just getting in on every time I wanted to or felt like it. Couldn't be further than the truth. I picked up on this our last go round of conversations about SM. So, i made the adjustments. I do hold her hand, i do give back massages with out any intentions of wanting or initiating sex, i do cuddle next to her on the couch.....so where did i miss the part about her wanting to have sex with me. Oh yeah I didn't miss it because she never said it. Then she goes on to talk about the biggest hindrance which would be getting pregnant again and not wanting to. And she all but admitted that she has never been in a position to enjoy sex without a purpose, meaning when we were trying to get pregnant she enjoyed it because that was the reason for having sex, before we were trying to get pregnant we were having sex and she enjoyed it because she was on birth control so for her now she can't enjoy it without thinking omg what if i get pregnant. When i pressed her for the option of 'there are other things we can do that don't involve the D in the P' she all but avoided that as well saying that we were to do that what would stop me from wanting to go all the way which then she says that's what she thinks about when it comes to sex. I guess the point to this follow up is that it is slowly becoming more clear to me that I am not the reason but she is and will never take ownership of it. I just feel as if i can get on the right track of conversation I can kick the door in and she will all but be exposed and come clean about it all. Thoughts...... Sorry. I posted before reading your follow up. Thoughts? You already know. She has shown you her true colors pretty clearly and you know it/see it. She is avoiding, blaming you, blaming not wanting to be pregnant --- um... gotta say, condoms do work, we go through boxes and boxes a year..... She did come clean - she admitted to you she does not "enjoy" sex without a purpose. Correct? From your writing it sounds like the conversation kind of went in circles (I get that, all of mine did too). But she did fess up within there if you re-read. And you do know it because you stated as such. So, back to Baz's question - it becomes "what now?" |
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Post by seabr33z3 on Apr 26, 2017 12:15:20 GMT -5
What about "are you happy with how things are between us?" "Are we ok because I'm sensing some distance.?" " can we go for a drive/walk/coffee as I need to talk about some things that are bothering me?" Or you could just say that you think your marriage isn't what it should be and you were thinking about booking some counselling sessions and ask how she would feel about that. Her response to any of those should give you a clue as to how she feels things are between you. She might think that things are just fine or she may get angry or if you are really lucky she might be relieved that you brought the subject of counselling up. ( apologies if you've already gone down this route)
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