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Post by lyn on Mar 22, 2017 20:45:23 GMT -5
Hmmmm there sure seems to be a trend here. Many of our Refusers refuse to apologize or admit to any wrong doing. This comes as quite a shock! Just a little sarcasm .......
My H will not apologize for anything - ever. He could run someone down in a parking lot and not apologize.
I have been known to apologize for him I guess, "Hey, I accept your apology for being such an asshole". This semi passive aggressive remark by me illicits a hollow apology about 50% of the time.
Oh the joys of sm.
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Post by allworkandnoplay on Mar 22, 2017 21:30:42 GMT -5
No apologies in my house...
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Post by novembercomingfire on Mar 22, 2017 21:34:51 GMT -5
No apologies in my house... None here either. And no thanks. |
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Post by lakeside4003 on Mar 22, 2017 22:29:11 GMT -5
Q - isn't the issue more about a basic, fundamental acknowledgement (from our spouses) that a SM is a shithole for somebody in the marriage? We all know this to be so - and feel it to the max.
but they don't even understand (can't?) that we feel sooooo strongly about this - and to keep it fully separated from all other 'whats going on in our relationship' is the a painful DARVO path and just keeps us all in our personal 'alternative reality' settings ...
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Post by whuffo on Mar 22, 2017 23:49:50 GMT -5
The only apologies in my house are from me. I issue them all the time and with some petty issues as I'm always doing something that doesn't meet her standard. Yet when she describes me in an argument I am the type that will "never apologize".
SM with a side of DARVO perhaps?
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Post by greatcoastal on Mar 23, 2017 9:37:47 GMT -5
The only apologies in my house are from me. I issue them all the time and with some petty issues as I'm always doing something that doesn't meet her standard. Yet when she describes me in an argument I am the type that will "never apologize". SM with a side of DARVO perhaps? It took me documenting our conversations, repeating her exact quotes, in therapy. Like taking her before a judge. She remained silent, and would be thinking of a "but you always.... But you never..... But all the time you....". Even using her same manipulative controlling tactics back on her, lead her to retreat and manipulate through other tactics. I ised her same words on her, and she did not like it! (That's not my problem. That's not my concern. You said a lot, and I can't answer them all. Well, I don't know how to answer that. Well I don't know what you want me to say. I don't know what to tell you) In the past I have stood my ground and told her, "you need to apologize, admit you where wrong, ask for forgiveness, and actually say those words and act upon them or they are meeningless" Again she gives blank stares. It's not easy to speak negatively about my STBX. However I feel justified in telling the truth, and defending myself when necessary. It's a big part of gaining back my freedom , and self worth. Some questions we are all faced with involving "others" standards. 1) When did they recieve the right to say their standards are better, or higher than yours? 2)Marriage does not give them the right to be the judge of meeting their standards. 3) Do they even meet up to these "standards" themselves? 4)Are the "standards" always changing? Are your actions never good enough? A double bind? 5) How much have they failed your "standards", boundaries, expectations, guidelines, agreements, covenants, and trust? If you made the same mistakes I did, by putting your spouse on a pedestal, idolizing there opinions only, judging your entire self worth by one person, then you are the one who also needs change. Overcoming the FOG (Fear, Obligation, Guilt) is one of the hardest first steps. Dropping your pride and admitting to self, "I screwed up". Then comes the slow process of "my opinion does matter, my self worth matters." This levels the playing field, and removes the pedestal. shrink4men.com/2012/04/05/putting-women-on-pedestals-dont-do-it/ |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2017 10:06:23 GMT -5
My wife rarely truly apologizes. It's more of an attempt to explain or rationalize. Something like 'I'm sorry but the reason I did that was .....'. There's no contrition or admitting she did anything wrong. The problem is that I simply didn't see things her way and understand. Now that she explained things to me everything should be okay and I should see that she did nothing wrong. My bad that I saw it any other way. My STBX does the same thing. She is incapable of seeing any perspective other than her own. It is like trying to argue with a 6 yr old. They honestly believe that if you just understood WHY they covered the dog with shoe polish, you would not be upset. Once my STBX looked me right in the face & said, "Nothing I do is wrong unless I think it's wrong!" |
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Post by WindSister on Mar 23, 2017 10:33:13 GMT -5
My ex's apology was admitting he knew he was selfish, but he wasn't sorry for it.
"I'm selfish, you know that." (aka: "You are really to blame for being with me in the first place" or "Oh well, nothing I can do about my selfishness, it's just who I am.").
My husband is direct, honest and sometimes raw, unfiltered but if he's wrong, he will see it and apologize. As for appreciation and thanks - we are full of that for each other daily. Course, when you had the opposite all your life it makes you so much aware of how important it is.
Good read.
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Post by iceman on Mar 23, 2017 10:40:13 GMT -5
My wife rarely truly apologizes. It's more of an attempt to explain or rationalize. Something like 'I'm sorry but the reason I did that was .....'. There's no contrition or admitting she did anything wrong. The problem is that I simply didn't see things her way and understand. Now that she explained things to me everything should be okay and I should see that she did nothing wrong. My bad that I saw it any other way. My STBX does the same thing. She is incapable of seeing any perspective other than her own. It is like trying to argue with a 6 yr old. They honestly believe that if you just understood WHY they covered the dog with shoe polish, you would not be upset. Once my STBX looked me right in the face & said, "Nothing I do is wrong unless I think it's wrong!" She's not been as blunt about it but that's pretty much my wife's attitude as well. |
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Post by bballgirl on Mar 23, 2017 11:14:33 GMT -5
This thread is bringing back some memories as well as a thought process I remember having before I decided to divorce.
Memories: My ex was rude and disrespectful at times to friends, neighbors, strangers, etc. All of the places we lived he never socialized with the neighbors, talked about them behind their back and gave me grief for socializing with them especially the men.
As far as "the sorry" - he always had a way of spinning things around, making me feel bad for him or me saying I'm sorry and I didn't really do anything wrong. In the end when I announced the divorce and he knew I was done and there was nothing left for him to manipulate me with he admitted and said "I'm so sorry I was an asshole". However just words and too little too late.
Thought process: When I was on EP before I decided to divorce someone created a thread asking "Would you be friends with your spouse".
That thread was pretty revealing to me because I realized he's just not a nice friendly person and why should I be married to someone that today I would not be friends with?
So would you be friends with your spouse?
Today we are friends but where the kids are concerned. We talk once or twice a week about kids and schedules. Not a real friend I guess we are friendly co parents.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2017 13:44:20 GMT -5
Thought process: When I was on EP before I decided to divorce someone created a thread asking "Would you be friends with your spouse". That thread was pretty revealing to me because I realized he's just not a nice friendly person and why should I be married to someone that today I would not be friends with? So would you be friends with your spouse? Interesting question. My answer is no. I only plan to talk to her when it is absolutely necessary. Frankly, if we did not share children, I would never be in the same room with her again. She is incredibly rude and very unpleasant. |
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Post by McRoomMate on Mar 23, 2017 19:03:09 GMT -5
There is so much courage and honesty here. Respect to everyone for the posts and your empowerment.
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Post by baza on Mar 23, 2017 21:30:43 GMT -5
I must admit that historically, I was not much of an alologiser myself, so I am loathe to start pointing the finger at my former missus - or anyone else for that matter.
These days though, in an environment where there is very little bullshitting going on in my life with Ms enna, I find it quite easy to apologise when I've fucked up. And, to genuinely accept an apology off someone and move on. (I was a terribly good "grudge carrier" at one point)
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Post by mrslowmaintenance on Mar 23, 2017 23:46:33 GMT -5
I don't want to make anyone feel bad, but I would just like to raise a hand go the other side.
My H is actually very apologetic. After joining This wonder group of individuals and pouring over all of the conversation (I'm sure you all have noticed my name here far too frequently in such a short amount of time... Sorry, not sorry) I talked to him. And I really talked to him, no crying, no anger, just direct when you this, I that. When I feel that, I this. And he genuinely apologized. He even said sorry again the next day.
I however, ummmm yeah... I am going to be frank. When it comes to little stuff, you bet. When it comes to the big things, I struggle. It is really hard to admit such a major fault, thankfully I am okay with being called out on it, but it usually takes me a day to actually digest what was said and apologize.
My mother is a refuser and a DARVO, I have never heard her say sorry with an ounce of truth in it. Ever.
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Post by McRoomMate on Mar 24, 2017 4:55:19 GMT -5
I don't want to make anyone feel bad, but I would just like to raise a hand go the other side. My H is actually very apologetic. After joining This wonder group of individuals and pouring over all of the conversation (I'm sure you all have noticed my name here far too frequently in such a short amount of time... Sorry, not sorry) I talked to him. And I really talked to him, no crying, no anger, just direct when you this, I that. When I feel that, I this. And he genuinely apologized. He even said sorry again the next day. I however, ummmm yeah... I am going to be frank. When it comes to little stuff, you bet. When it comes to the big things, I struggle. It is really hard to admit such a major fault, thankfully I am okay with being called out on it, but it usually takes me a day to actually digest what was said and apologize. My mother is a refuser and a DARVO, I have never heard her say sorry with an ounce of truth in it. Ever. WORDS vs. ACTIONS - Very good to hear a heart felt apology. Hope it translates into action. Just want to say - speaking with me as the "apologizer" to be true as possible. I might say it and I might really mean it when I say it BUT BUT BUT - if after the fact, I just revert to old behaviors and so in "PRACTICE" via witness to my actions - the apology aint worth the air the words are made of. And another little thing I heard about small vs. big stuff. "It aint the lions and tigers that kill, its the mosquitos and knats" Again, sending you positive vibes but just be on the look-out for what actually HAPPENS - we got to watch the story unfold right? |
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