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Post by allworkandnoplay on Mar 19, 2017 23:09:31 GMT -5
Hello,
I can’t say how long I have been hanging around, but definitely since EP, with a few periods of hiatus. I guess I have always been timid about sharing my own story, but please know that I have been inspired by your stories and buoyed by your advice.
The majority of our 20+ year marriage has been sexless, at least by the usual definition. We do have two teenage children. We married young, still in college. I had some experience before we married, but my W did not. Early on was much like many of you describe, not “enough” but not necessarily “sexless”; and virtually none of it adventurous. This quickly dwindled down to near nothing. If I am lucky it is a few times a year – and as boring as she can stand. I have tried to compromise in every scenario I can think of. Scheduling is a no because it must be spontaneous and she must be in the mood first. She has told me what I could try to “prime the pump” so to speak, but then has other excuses as to why she is still not in the mood. You get the idea.
I wish I could blame it all on the lack of sex, but there has been a breakdown of all matrimonial connection – at least for me. I believe that sex and intimacy are the defining characteristics of marriage. Any two people can have sex, but the combination of sharing the entirety of your life, bonded through sexual intimacy, makes it “marriage”. Otherwise you are just two people sharing mutual obligations (aka, roommates).
What I have come to understand, and only recently, is the fact that my W is the Queen of DARVO. Whether it is a petty disagreement or a full-blown fight, her classic response is to feign “losing” the argument and accuse me of being the bad guy. I am not allowed to disagree with her on ANY issue. If I do then it means I am calling her “stupid” or a “liar” (her words, not mine). This is especially true about any argument concerning sex.
So, my current state of being is avoidance. I have given up asking for sex, which does not seem to bother her. When we are at home, she retires to the bedroom upstairs while I maintain the living room downstairs. I stay up long enough for her to fall asleep before I come up to bed. I only speak what I need to communicate. I have always been the quiet type, so most of the time she does not seem to notice, although she does ask sometimes if I am angry. I dare not answer “yes” even if I am because I am not allowed to be angry with her for any reason. I do anything I can to avoid any kind of conflict. Unfortunately, she seems to think that things are going ok since we are not fighting so much lately. It’s even harder because we work at the same place, so I have no space, no circle of friends, nothing that is not also tied to her. (No, I cannot get a different job. It is a long term contract.)
Yes, I know this is totally passive aggressive, but I feel like I am kind of out of options at the moment.
So that’s my story. Thanks for reading. Best wishes for all.
Thanks!
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Post by TMD on Mar 19, 2017 23:21:11 GMT -5
Welcome aboard! You know what the schpiel is (consult lawyer, execute plan, etc). I'm curious, what are you going to do for yourself to ensure your well being? It doesn't sound like you have a plan to leave the marriage...
BTW, I like your quote. So true.
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Post by mrslowmaintenance on Mar 19, 2017 23:35:52 GMT -5
Wow, that's a rough situation. She has so much control it is crazy. She even controls your bedroom and what you allowed to express as feelings. Yuck.
Do you still share a bed? Honestly, if I had to wait until my H went to sleep just to avoid him, I would just sleep somewhere else. There is no reason for you to literally lose sleep over her control.
I'm really sorry, I wish there was something I could say to help. Baby steps though, you didn't get into this in a hurry, it won't end in one.
Actually? Do you do anything in your life just for you? Like work out, soccer team, DnD, sailing???
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Post by baza on Mar 19, 2017 23:35:57 GMT -5
It reads like you are fully aware that your deal is an ILIASM shithole.
That isn't a particularly pleasant thing to know, but it is valuable knowledge.
The truth always is valuable, even if unpleasant.
And, you are under no obligation to do anything about it.
Staying is as perfectly valid a choice as cheating or leaving.
What might be helpful is to try and take ownership of the fact that you are staying.
Her behaviours in the relationship she owns.
Your choice to stay in the relationship, YOU own.
Welcome to the zoo.
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Post by unmatched on Mar 19, 2017 23:40:47 GMT -5
Hi, this sounds very familiar, both to me and from many other stories here. Your wife is refusing to take any responsibility for her own sexuality. The 'feeling' has to be spontaneous and must descend on her from somewhere like the hand of God, and at that point she might let herself feel horny and give into it. But God forbid it should have anything to do with her and her choices. Your marriage looks very similar, actually. Neither of you can possibly be happy. The difference is she doesn't really want to live at this point, she is content just to minimise pain and disruption and to 'manage' the marriage and your interactions to ensure that nothing gets out of control. But you want more than that. So you are the one who is more miserable.
The truth is you are mostly right - you are out of easy options. But if you carry on the way you are you will be dead by the time you are 65, and probably relieved to finally get there. So you can blow up your marriage, or you can change yourself and the way you live and see if that might be enough for you. Or maybe there is a Plan C, but I can't think of one right now...
Anyway, welcome!
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Post by tamara68 on Mar 20, 2017 5:50:28 GMT -5
Welcome here  It sounds very familiar to me too. You can't keep walking on eggshells forever. Problem of avoidance is that it is keeping things as they are. She has learned that she can control you. She is not the one who has a problem with distance between you. Consequence of avoidance is also that you will feel more and more distance and sooner or later you don't care about her at all anymore. The only way to change things is to be the one who is making a change, because it surely won't be her to do anything. Best of luck, and keep posting here! |
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Post by nancyb on Mar 20, 2017 6:17:10 GMT -5
Welcome to the forum allworkandnoplay. Hope you find some answers, support, comfort and maybe a laugh or two. Thanks for posting. |
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Post by worksforme2 on Mar 20, 2017 6:56:05 GMT -5
There are so many things about your situation that I am unsure of. I get the feeling that you have had the "talk" with her about the sad state of your love life. That you have made clear to her how the lack of intimacy permeates the atmosphere and results in basically an indifference toward each other. Unfortunately indifference is a state that rarely stays constant. At some point indifference is going to become antagonistic or anger. In spite of your W's DARVO response, if you haven't had the "talk" then it's way past time. Open, honest communication even if it is one sided can go a long ways toward clearing the air and may facilitate something more positive.
Are you opening up to anyone close to you about the marriage. Men generally aren't apt to talk about problems with other men. But perhaps you have some close kin that you can trust and could bounce your thoughts off just to assure yourself that it isn't all dire and doomed going forward. I wish I had someone like that when my deal went south. If not then you know we are here for you.
You mention kids and I assume they are the reason you keep hanging in there. Otherwise why would you stay in so disagreeable a situation? You aren't even very good roommates it seems. Kids add complexity. If they are older teens they are probably aware of the dysfunctional relationship. Tension and avoidance is pretty hard to hide. And your friends may not be as clueless as you think either. I could see problems in the marriage of my W's friends even before she told me that some of them were experiencing the same issues as us.
This reads like you are on the college plan at the moment. As Baz has already stated, the decision to stay is as valid as any if it works for you. Good luck...
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Post by allworkandnoplay on Mar 20, 2017 22:17:05 GMT -5
Thank you all for the responses, and yes, you are all correct… every one of you. I am in a limbo state. I have no illusions to this fact.
So much advice that I have read on these boards centers on the issue of choice. If I am so miserable, why do I stay? Some people choose to stay for the children, others get past that. Etc., Etc. Yes, there is always a choice, even if it is a difficult one. However, let me offer this: There comes a time when past choices limit or eliminate future options. As much as I would love to get a divorce and get past this point in my life, I see no viable options at present. Essentially, if I work out all of my possibilities to their logical end, the results end up worse for me than staying – at least for the time being.
Things may change in the future, so we’ll see. I have researched everything short of going to see a lawyer in person. The laws in my state are pretty clear from what I can gather. Most of my hesitation stems from the financial, but I am working on that. Essentially, I am working on an exit plan, it’s just slow going. I don’t really have a good support group, unfortunately. I am a private, quiet and shy person by nature and I don’t really have any friends that are not also her friends so I am concerned about confidentiality. It has taken me a long time just to post here.
In any case, I appreciate all of you.
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Post by baza on Mar 20, 2017 23:57:11 GMT -5
You feel "in limbo".
That is a shit of a place.
But in fact, you are NOT "in limbo".
You are actually deep in an ILIASM shithole, which is also a terrible place.
That's where you ARE.
That is your current address.
*Somewhere* between ILIASM Shithole and "Single" lies the transitional place called "limboland".
You aren't "Single", and you are not in "Limbo".
You are in an ILIASM Shithole.
Taking ownership of that fact can be quite liberating.
It is a far more positive approach than adopting a "victim of circumstances" position.
You are - at this point - staying in your deal by your own choice.
That is a perfectly valid choice. Every bit as valid as leaving or cheating.
But you do need to own it.
With that solid ownership steady under your feet, you have a rock solid base. You know exactly where you are (and it ain't "limbo") and from that base you might, if the circumstances or your thinking change, re-evaluate where you choose to be.
And, knowing where you presently are is a great navigational aid should you want to go somewhere else.
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Post by GeekGoddess on Mar 21, 2017 6:06:17 GMT -5
Grateful you chose to finally share your story. I hope that opening up gives some small relief to you. The pressure of keeping it to myself was pretty huge & sharing back on EP did me a lot of good. Typing things out helped me clarify my truth & see where I was (& where that was headed).
I was finally certain that staying would (could) only lead me to bitter unhappiness. I got a support group (Adult Children of Alcoholics) & a therapist & used EP for additional steam-letting & advice-seeking. I couldn't have trudged my road out without the help of all 3.
I changed my expectations too, mostly those around myself. I no longer counted leaving as an impossible option. Then I learned what it would take. I jumping in with both feet, a little before I had my act completely "together" but it worked out anyway.
And I have not regretted the changes in my life. In studies, most people don't regret things they actually DID. They usually regret things they DIDN'T do in life.
In getting out, I knew there was no guarantee that "out" would be better. But life has no guarantees. All I wanted was the CHANCE for something different. I took the risk. It's paid off for me.
Life isn't perfect now, but it is my own.
Thanks for opening up to share your story. And good luck navigating.
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Post by greatcoastal on Mar 21, 2017 7:06:40 GMT -5
Hi!! Thanks for being here! I would like to echo what GeekGoddess just said. "past choices eliminate my future options". Well....never say never!
You could use some guidance. Knowledge is power. You can, and should, see several attorneys. The first step is a scary one. It took me days to make a phone call. After my first free visit I was on here bubbling with info. and more questions. By my 4th different attorney visit I had a do-able plan. I'd say the best out come was,"things were not going to be as bad as I thought".
It also pointed out about the things I worry about. 90% of worries seldom ever happen. The other 10% need to be concerns. As trivial as that sounds, I have changed my thoughts, and continue to remind myself, " stop worrying, be concerned,who wants to be around a worrier all the time?"
Need some one to go with you on your first attorney visit? THAT'S OKAY! It's totally understandable. I think us men are to much of a loaner and pride gets in the way. Another woman would be glad to offer to go with another woman. Why not a man helping out a fellow man? I found men at a church group who offered to go with me. They ask me every week about my divorce. I appreciate there concern and encouragement.
Another fine group that will offer you direction, council, experience, and guidance is a Divorce Recovery group in your area. Even if you are not divorced yet, but you know it's coming.
My pastor says this with every sermon,"if you don't quit, you can't loose".
Personally, I am getting ready to move forward and gain more ground. I am getting all the free information I can get for a new career. LOTS of changes! Not just for me, but it will affect others. Time and money will take a hit, temporarily. My decision, my choice, (with guidance from others who I see as my mentors) so I can benefit my self. In turn it will benefit my family.
Feel free to ask more about your future options! If you aim for the stars and you miss you land on the moon. If you aim for the top of the cow pasture fence, and you miss, well....you know what you land in!!
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Post by bballgirl on Mar 21, 2017 7:44:06 GMT -5
Welcome. I'm glad you shared your story here.
I was an EP lurker for years until I shared my story.
Originally I planned to stay until 2019 but I saw a few attorneys and figured out a way out. It did set me back financially. I no longer own my house, I rent. I'm in a smaller house too but I'm happier.
There's no cookie cutter solution and everyone has to do things in their own time frame when they are ready. Sometimes I think "the ready" comes before we expect it. For me my emotions drove my ready. I feared being in my sixties and thinking I should have left in my forties. I feared my H getting sick, a heart attack or stroke and then I'd be stuck.
Money and the house didn't matter as much as I did to me.
Maybe that's selfish but I'm happier now and better to be around for my kids now and even the ex.
Again welcome and I know you will get the support you need here to figure out what you want for yourself.
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justjillian
Junior Member
Mom of 2, married 7 years
Posts: 28 
Age Range: 31-35
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Post by justjillian on Mar 25, 2017 19:40:58 GMT -5
I's sorry to hear that you've been going through this for so long. It sounds like you aren't getting along outside of the bedroom anymore than you are in the bedroom.
It's such a crappy situation, but I am glad that you finally decided to post here and talk about it. I just found this forum and just knowing there are so many other people going through intimacy issues makes me feel a little less lonely. Minor consolation I know, but it's something.
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Post by McRoomMate on Mar 25, 2017 19:46:18 GMT -5
I wish I could blame it all on the lack of sex, but there has been a breakdown of all matrimonial connection – at least for me. I believe that sex and intimacy are the defining characteristics of marriage. Any two people can have sex, but the combination of sharing the entirety of your life, bonded through sexual intimacy, makes it “marriage”. Otherwise you are just two people sharing mutual obligations (aka, roommates).Superbly inspiring post - in the sense that it is about 80% or more - all too autobiographical. I too have children with current W - I am pretty close to the "zip code" therapy being activated within the next month or so. Whatever happens and what you decide to do / not do . . . WELCOME and thank-you for posting. |
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