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Post by GeekGoddess on Mar 15, 2017 6:51:15 GMT -5
If it were possible to take the date & not play along - like Dan's suggested "let's go but I'm keeping it real" - that level of honesty seems worthwhile. But if you think that going unavoidably means playing along, then I wouldn't go. I don't know that wanting the summer trip is stupid- but I don't know if it's worth it? Wanting it to be the last go around for the trip - I kind of get that. But I was unhappy thinking about spending more weeks in a separate guest room across the hall from my old bedroom- by the end, there was no way I could stomach 3 extra months together. Only you know how "full up" you are with disappointment, or how much patience you still have for that "comfortable facade" which can be so handy & save face & protect both of our egos. But again - I'd encourage as MUCH honesty as you can muster without making life miserable for yourself. Don't fake love notes (for instance). Loving detachment is a good goal. Hate isn't the opposite of love, disinterest is. Good luck, lyn!! |
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Post by McRoomMate on Mar 15, 2017 8:35:28 GMT -5
So..... kind of a pivotal moment for me (maybe, but, maybe not). I'm not going on this stupid date. In all honesty, by going, I would be playing to him. By going, I would be tending to the facade. I'm a sucker for a music festival (which is the "date"), but, sorry to sound glib, but, I'm done being a sucker. Let the chips fall where they may I guess. The 5 month timeframe is fairly arbitrary I suppose. Just have wanted to go on this 3 month summer trip that we've been going on for 14 years. Honestly, wanted to pick up my hiking - kayaking gear. So dumb. That stuff can be replaced. Way harder to replace self respect. New exit timeframe I'm thinking. I do appreciate the input and words of wisdom guys. Given how MASSIVELY BIG a DIVORCE is or just "ZIP CODE THERAPY" and moving out. I think once a decision is made then ACT and ACT as FAST as POSSIBLE. I still cannot help thinking that Divorce is very akin to War or any Competitive or Adversarial Event. When we say it is OVER it is a battle and a separation, "Fight for Your Freedom" kind of thing. True hopefully nobody is in physical danger like a real war but it is adversarial and PAINFUL for all parties. I cannot judge anyone's decision on how long to wait, and I am speaking only of My own Heart and Circumstances. Personally, I am announcing and having the "TALK" probably the week after Easter because I am away on business and do not want to ruin Easter - so psychologically it is the calm before the storm. By end of April I should be in my own place and divorce etc. will naturally follow in due course. I have been rehearsing what to say and preparing as best I can - far from perfect preparation - I just have to go with what I got and yes, oh hell yes I will lose alot but such is the "Price of Freedom" and at the end of the day does Freedom really have a measurable value? The answer is absolutely Yes - I will pay anything for my freedom pretty much and not just money. I know the stakes I know the cost and I accept. |
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fred
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Post by fred on Mar 15, 2017 10:45:16 GMT -5
As an "H", I find it most interesting how so many believe it is up to the H to "do" or "say" or "provide" something which will magically re-ignite that warmth and affection which was part of a couple's life at the outset of the relationship. The "W" is held as some kind of "island entity" without having had any obligation to help sustain the relationship. Is this feminist ? I dunno. It just seems like justification of self-absorbtion on the part of the "less-interested" party. AND, there is ALWAYS a "less-interested" party - life is not a perfect balance, it depends upon mutual love to be the great sustainer.
A half-century of being the "more-interested",
Fred
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Post by lyn on Mar 15, 2017 10:50:02 GMT -5
These re-set manipulations, and red love notes remind me of a certain "signed document!" Only as good as the toilet paper it's written on! Good one GC😊 |
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Post by lyn on Mar 15, 2017 10:57:32 GMT -5
So..... kind of a pivotal moment for me (maybe, but, maybe not). I'm not going on this stupid date. In all honesty, by going, I would be playing to him. By going, I would be tending to the facade. I'm a sucker for a music festival (which is the "date"), but, sorry to sound glib, but, I'm done being a sucker. Let the chips fall where they may I guess. The 5 month timeframe is fairly arbitrary I suppose. Just have wanted to go on this 3 month summer trip that we've been going on for 14 years. Honestly, wanted to pick up my hiking - kayaking gear. So dumb. That stuff can be replaced. Way harder to replace self respect. New exit timeframe I'm thinking. I do appreciate the input and words of wisdom guys. Given how MASSIVELY BIG a DIVORCE is or just "ZIP CODE THERAPY" and moving out. I think once a decision is made then ACT and ACT as FAST as POSSIBLE. I still cannot help thinking that Divorce is very akin to War or any Competitive or Adversarial Event. When we say it is OVER it is a battle and a separation, "Fight for Your Freedom" kind of thing. True hopefully nobody is in physical danger like a real war but it is adversarial and PAINFUL for all parties. I cannot judge anyone's decision on how long to wait, and I am speaking only of My own Heart and Circumstances. Personally, I am announcing and having the "TALK" probably the week after Easter because I am away on business and do not want to ruin Easter - so psychologically it is the calm before the storm. By end of April I should be in my own place and divorce etc. will naturally follow in due course. I have been rehearsing what to say and preparing as best I can - far from perfect preparation - I just have to go with what I got and yes, oh hell yes I will lose alot but such is the "Price of Freedom" and at the end of the day does Freedom really have a measurable value? The answer is absolutely Yes - I will pay anything for my freedom pretty much and not just money. I know the stakes I know the cost and I accept. I think we are in such a similar place, yes definitely. Your plan to be in your own place by April? Wow, I'm realizing I'm jealous! You go McRoomie! Get your life - your authentic and fulfilling life. I'm truly happy for you😊 |
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Post by lyn on Mar 15, 2017 11:02:33 GMT -5
Thanks eternaloptimism - I know that you're right. Thing is, if I decline this kind of "stuff" like this date, then I won't be able to carry-on for 5 more months - because he'll get too pissy - I won't be able "deal" with it I don't think. I don't want to encourage him just get along because that seems cruel. He will never be successful at resetting me. In the back of my mind, I'm thinking the 5 month planned date is basically not going to happen. I have some stupid, almost selfish reasons for wanting to drag it out for that time period. Guess the question at this point is, am I willing to, kind of, prostitute my ethics for the next 5 months? That's what it comes down to I think. I very much understand; my situation is parallel, but I'm doing the uncannily difficult thing of trying to "keep the peace" for a few more YEARS before I go! (Who knows; my time frame may shorten... but we have a wedding, a funeral, a graduation, and an Eagle Scout ceremony all happening in the next few months... and I REALLY want to keep the boat from rocking while I get through all that.) Listen, if you have to make a decision between "go on the date/play along" or rebuff/reject him, there MIGHT be a middle path: basically redirect him. That is speak honestly about your distance enough to get him to turn it down a few notches: "I'm just not that comfortable being lovey dovey with you right now. So ease up on the little hearts. If you want to go to the such-an-such this weekend, OK, sounds nice, but lets just enjoy the day, and not make a big deal about it." Or, I dunno -- something along those lines. Now this might just as well be selfish in the sense that you are still possibly misleading him; hinting that his best way to "win you back" is to notch it down a bit... even if that has zero chance of working. But either way you are stringing him on a bit, and there is a benefit to everybody playing nice until the time is right to let him know the cord is being cut.... right? In case it isn't obvious: I'M fighting that very same sense of "is 'keeping the peace' and 'playing nice' actually being selfish/dishonest with my wife?" While I have pangs of worry that it is... I still think it is the best course of action at this time. . I see where you're going here and this does make sense. Notch down the lovey dovey stuff and maybe just hang out as friends. I'll have to think about how this might work - but in all honesty, I'm beginning to wrestle with this timeframe of even 5 months being doable. I know you're doing these for years and yes, you have lovely valid reasons. I'm beginning to invalidate some of my reasons ..... time for some soul searching . |
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Post by lyn on Mar 15, 2017 11:10:26 GMT -5
If it were possible to take the date & not play along - like Dan's suggested "let's go but I'm keeping it real" - that level of honesty seems worthwhile. But if you think that going unavoidably means playing along, then I wouldn't go. I don't know that wanting the summer trip is stupid- but I don't know if it's worth it? Wanting it to be the last go around for the trip - I kind of get that. But I was unhappy thinking about spending more weeks in a separate guest room across the hall from my old bedroom- by the end, there was no way I could stomach 3 extra months together. Only you know how "full up" you are with disappointment, or how much patience you still have for that "comfortable facade" which can be so handy & save face & protect both of our egos. But again - I'd encourage as MUCH honesty as you can muster without making life miserable for yourself. Don't fake love notes (for instance). Loving detachment is a good goal. Hate isn't the opposite of love, disinterest is. Good luck, lyn!! Hmmm GeekGoddess. You've got me thinking. If I don't sit back, just biding my time while I wait for my exit I could be missing out on opportunities to really just be real and honest. Which does play into living authentically whether I'm still here or not. I think I can address these future situations better - not let them freak me out, but, figure out a way to approach them with kindness and decisiveness. "Yes, I'll go to the concert, but just as a casual outing. I'm not feeling romantic towards you, but we could still go because we're friends". Not sure how that will go over, but, it's honest and I like that. |
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Post by greatcoastal on Mar 15, 2017 11:18:54 GMT -5
As an "H", I find it most interesting how so many believe it is up to the H to "do" or "say" or "provide" something which will magically re-ignite that warmth and affection which was part of a couple's life at the outset of the relationship. The "W" is held as some kind of "island entity" without having had any obligation to help sustain the relationship. Is this feminist ? I dunno. It just seems like justification of self-absorbtion on the part of the "less-interested" party. AND, there is ALWAYS a "less-interested" party - life is not a perfect balance, it depends upon mutual love to be the great sustainer. A half-century of being the "more-interested", Fred Hi Fred, it is truly GREAT to have you with us! As another H. I very well can relate to your thoughts and questions. The "put the W. on a pedestal" mentality was part of my up bringing/training as well. Going above and beyond to give more than equal rights. However in this case (I hope Lyn freely chimes in here) the original poster has expressed previously her efforts to go above and beyond duty to make the intimacy/sex part a working entity of the marriage. Only to be confronted with countless rejection. It baffles the mind, doesn't it? That it's out there, H's that refuse their W's through manipulative control. Once you find out about it, and read others plightful stories, you realize much of the same thing that you described IS happening in reversal to woman. Please feel free to enlighten us with your thoughts and experiences. It helps everyone to grow together. |
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Post by lyn on Mar 15, 2017 11:23:06 GMT -5
As an "H", I find it most interesting how so many believe it is up to the H to "do" or "say" or "provide" something which will magically re-ignite that warmth and affection which was part of a couple's life at the outset of the relationship. The "W" is held as some kind of "island entity" without having had any obligation to help sustain the relationship. Is this feminist ? I dunno. It just seems like justification of self-absorbtion on the part of the "less-interested" party. AND, there is ALWAYS a "less-interested" party - life is not a perfect balance, it depends upon mutual love to be the great sustainer. A half-century of being the "more-interested", Fred . As a true, natural-born feminist, I do look at every situation the same in terms of things being fair and equitable for all genders. This iliasm shithole is a gender-less situation. Some may use Refused or Refuser instead of H or W because it is a gender-free way of "labeling" whomever is playing their respective role in the marriage. As a Refused person, who just happens to be the W in my situation, I tend to refer to my H as such really for simplicity sake. Not as any gender-bias. It is up to both parties in a marriage - the H and the W - to uphold the vows, care for each other's health and well-being and I'm going to venture to say yes, there is an expectation for sex and intimacy in a marriage. As we know this often falls to one person (the Refused spouse) to try to maintain this on their own which is impossible AND heartbreaking. |
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Post by McRoomMate on Mar 15, 2017 11:51:14 GMT -5
Given how MASSIVELY BIG a DIVORCE is or just "ZIP CODE THERAPY" and moving out. I think once a decision is made then ACT and ACT as FAST as POSSIBLE. I still cannot help thinking that Divorce is very akin to War or any Competitive or Adversarial Event. When we say it is OVER it is a battle and a separation, "Fight for Your Freedom" kind of thing. True hopefully nobody is in physical danger like a real war but it is adversarial and PAINFUL for all parties. I cannot judge anyone's decision on how long to wait, and I am speaking only of My own Heart and Circumstances. Personally, I am announcing and having the "TALK" probably the week after Easter because I am away on business and do not want to ruin Easter - so psychologically it is the calm before the storm. By end of April I should be in my own place and divorce etc. will naturally follow in due course. I have been rehearsing what to say and preparing as best I can - far from perfect preparation - I just have to go with what I got and yes, oh hell yes I will lose alot but such is the "Price of Freedom" and at the end of the day does Freedom really have a measurable value? The answer is absolutely Yes - I will pay anything for my freedom pretty much and not just money. I know the stakes I know the cost and I accept. I think we are in such a similar place, yes definitely. Your plan to be in your own place by April? Wow, I'm realizing I'm jealous! You go McRoomie! Get your life - your authentic and fulfilling life. I'm truly happy for you😊 Well I have been walking around in a ZOMBIE stupor thinking aint everything grand for about 12 years or so. I am really really slow to realize something but I get it now. Like I got cosmic ice water splashed on my face and now that I am awake - I did this massive soul searching . . . beginning innocently that we had an SM and then boom it just gets so deep and wide and oh oh oh - the more I dig. Total Disfunction Hopeless Marriage the SM was but a symptom - So I have been in this intense praying, researching, meditating for about 90 days now and the more I dig, the more it becomes inevitable. I get nervous about "impulsivity" - it is my natural state - so I really really took my time and put in a lot of effort to make sure this was the RIGHT decision. But alas it NOW is DECIDED and so ACT. Part of my analysis was the COST in blood, sweat, and tears, and money. Nothing will be surprising. I know it is going to hurt too a lot but this will pass. Thank-you for your well "Fraternity" or "Sorority" - we are all in the SM FAmily here and yes I agree with your comments - this FORUM is a LIFE SAVER and UNIVERSITY for LIFE. My degree will be a Bachelors of Freedom ( "Bachelor" no pun intended). Amen and I wish you success and freedom as fast as your heart and the universe will let it come. |
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Post by unmatched on Mar 15, 2017 19:24:07 GMT -5
If it were possible to take the date & not play along - like Dan's suggested "let's go but I'm keeping it real" - that level of honesty seems worthwhile. But if you think that going unavoidably means playing along, then I wouldn't go. I don't know that wanting the summer trip is stupid- but I don't know if it's worth it? Wanting it to be the last go around for the trip - I kind of get that. But I was unhappy thinking about spending more weeks in a separate guest room across the hall from my old bedroom- by the end, there was no way I could stomach 3 extra months together. Only you know how "full up" you are with disappointment, or how much patience you still have for that "comfortable facade" which can be so handy & save face & protect both of our egos. But again - I'd encourage as MUCH honesty as you can muster without making life miserable for yourself. Don't fake love notes (for instance). Loving detachment is a good goal. Hate isn't the opposite of love, disinterest is. Good luck, lyn !! Hmmm GeekGoddess . You've got me thinking. If I don't sit back, just biding my time while I wait for my exit I could be missing out on opportunities to really just be real and honest. Which does play into living authentically whether I'm still here or not. I think I can address these future situations better - not let them freak me out, but, figure out a way to approach them with kindness and decisiveness. "Yes, I'll go to the concert, but just as a casual outing. I'm not feeling romantic towards you, but we could still go because we're friends". Not sure how that will go over, but, it's honest and I like that. if you are ready and able to do it, this kind of approach is going to feel so much better to you. Being authentically yourself and letting the chips fall where they may. But you need to be prepared for the fallout - there is a very good chance of either precipitating a serious 'state of our marriage' discussion which ends with a much faster separation, or of your H becoming a complete asshole which will ruin any prospect of enjoying that time anyway. So your 5 months may well go out the window. But I am guessing your soul will thank you for it. |
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Post by lyn on Mar 15, 2017 20:11:32 GMT -5
I think you're right unmatched. It's dawning on me that playing to the ruse doesn't allow me to be authentic and may even qualify as a fear-based mentality with regard to this. Completely goes against my grain. I suppose this is a bit of an experiment. We'll see what happens. Based on my H's avoidant tendencies, he will probably just go along with it - |
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Post by greatcoastal on Mar 15, 2017 21:14:51 GMT -5
I think you're right unmatched . It's dawning on me that playing to the ruse doesn't allow me to be authentic and may even qualify as a fear-based mentality with regard to this. Completely goes against my grain. I suppose this is a bit of an experiment. We'll see what happens. Based on my H's avoidant tendencies, he will probably just go along with it - Your H's avoidance for days, reminds me of my W's clenched lip reactions to my latest honest, sincere, reactions to her since the D announcement. Was I honest and sincere in the past? Yes. Was I being taken and led astray, being manipulated? yes. Was it a learning process to see through the FOG and start reacting with a more DEFENSIVE honest, sincere, reaction? Yes! Definitely a process. Like many good things it involves work, trial, and error. I find myself using a whole new vocabulary, when doing confrontation: NO, control, controlling, manipulation, spin, responsibility, change, your way, your rules, trust, who want's that, respect, zero intimacy, moving of money, etc...... Your H. sounds like he get's a mild set back , then reverts to his manipulative controlling tactics. Would you say that he is still denying reality? Like it or not the ball will be in your court to continue the de-tachment process. Your going to have to be a controller for your best interest. Tough isn't it?
Here's a "light bulb" moment! Are we successfully changing the refuser who refuses to change? They do have to accept the reality of the in your face detachment , that they brought upon themselves from years of rejection? Perhaps the negative is the change isn't what we wanted for the short run, but the long run results will be better. The refuser reacts with a new spin on there tactics. Some refusers are very good at using, quiet, stealth, deceptive, calm, collective, manipulative tactics.
Perhaps its best to avoid these tactics with less and less contact until absolutely necessary? It's not easy is it?
Change is coming. Even the most silent of battles have to be faught in order to be won. |
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Post by bballgirl on Mar 16, 2017 4:49:49 GMT -5
As an "H", I find it most interesting how so many believe it is up to the H to "do" or "say" or "provide" something which will magically re-ignite that warmth and affection which was part of a couple's life at the outset of the relationship. The "W" is held as some kind of "island entity" without having had any obligation to help sustain the relationship. Is this feminist ? I dunno. It just seems like justification of self-absorbtion on the part of the "less-interested" party. AND, there is ALWAYS a "less-interested" party - life is not a perfect balance, it depends upon mutual love to be the great sustainer. A half-century of being the "more-interested", Fred I don't think it's a feminist issue. It's a compatibility and a sex issue. You either enjoy sex or you don't. I think a lot of refused women probably made effort and suggestions to try to get their H to want to have sex with them. Once I asked my H to go away for a weekend alone and his response was "why would I want to do that?" So some women make effort and some don't just as some men make effort and some don't. You either enjoy sex or you don't and I will never entertain a man if he doesn't enjoy sex. Fortunately for us women the odds are in our favor. |
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Post by Copernicus on Mar 18, 2017 21:00:09 GMT -5
Hey Lyn. So sorry that he's messing with your head, but that's all it is. Maybe he's realized that you have taken back your power and he has to do grander things to try to manipulate you? Focus on YOUR goals; what You need; what You want. This isn't about him anymore, just you. Only you!
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