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Post by Apocrypha on Mar 10, 2017 14:28:04 GMT -5
The presence of lawyers and finite resources in a conflict like this, is like having a fistfight in a room with a handgun on the table. The person losing is going to feel tempted to go for the gun, and then it's a gunfight. So the task with both of you is to not only BE generous with each other on the things you can be, but to also maintain the APPEARANCE of doing so, so as to remove any ambiguity about intentions.
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Post by shamwow on Mar 10, 2017 14:36:07 GMT -5
The presence of lawyers and finite resources in a conflict like this, is like having a fistfight in a room with a handgun on the table. The person losing is going to feel tempted to go for the gun, and then it's a gunfight. So the task with both of you is to not only BE generous with each other on the things you can be, but to also maintain the APPEARANCE of doing so, so as to remove any ambiguity about intentions. That is one thing we are TOTALLY on the same page with. Our visits to each see a lawyer was for an initial consultation. Our "flight path" includes mediation after getting most of the details worked out between us first. To be honest, we aren't really all that far apart as far as the kids go. My problem was more the attitude that determination of custody was something for HER to decide as if the kids were hers to distribute. I think we will be even closer when it comes to property / assets. And on that, I can be much more generous than with the kids. On that front, everything is negotiable. it's just stuff. |
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Post by cagedtiger on Mar 10, 2017 17:12:14 GMT -5
Really shamwow? Ok. Delicately put, it's an engagement of the lower lady core muscles, working up to longer stronger holds and pulsing to maintain and improve muscle tone in that region. Or squeezing and releasing your fanny muscles to make sure you don't piss when you run after kids, oh and for that thing we all forget about here, you know, sexy time! You never been "gripped"?  Ok, I have to admit I started doing the same thing as well when I read that. Definitely works for men too. |
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Post by eternaloptimism on Mar 10, 2017 18:13:08 GMT -5
Really shamwow ? Ok. Delicately put, it's an engagement of the lower lady core muscles, working up to longer stronger holds and pulsing to maintain and improve muscle tone in that region. Or squeezing and releasing your fanny muscles to make sure you don't piss when you run after kids, oh and for that thing we all forget about here, you know, sexy time! You never been "gripped"? Ok, I have to admit I started doing the same thing as well when I read that. Definitely works for men too. It's like an epidemic (she types, clenching) |
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Post by baza on Mar 10, 2017 18:14:00 GMT -5
In an ILIASM shithole, it is often the case that the only half decent thing that remains in the wreckage is "the kids".
And so, having trashed everything else in the relationship, the protagonists will then try and maintain THEIR exclusive influence over "the kids" to the exclusion of the other spouse's parental rights.
Possibly being altruistically motivated by what each spouse - individually - see's as being in "the kids" best interests.
One is not always the most objective person in the world when it comes to "the kids" best interests.
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Post by McRoomMate on Mar 10, 2017 18:21:22 GMT -5
shamwow Congratulations on the progress. I have to admit 18 months seems pretty brutal and glad to hear it is shortened. I totally agree on the GOAL BASED Approach. I too got a lot of toxic bad habits after this long M I am currently in. I have chucked pretty much all my bad habits now and focusing on Good Things - a lot of exercise sports and now busy looking for new job (my current W is my employer - Oh what a stupid freaking idea that was - almost 4 years ago). Anyhow, you sound like you are in a very good position and mindset to handle this. Very interested to see how this progresses as I am not too far behind you - currently in "preparation" phase and trust me I am preparing - Psychologically, spiritually, financially, etc. All the best!
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Post by lyn on Mar 11, 2017 2:38:26 GMT -5
As you know, shamwow , your W is in the midst of the grieving process here. In fact, she's pretty much at the beginning (still definitely in the Anger stage probably mixed with Denial) and you, well, have had years to get to the point your at; acceptance - no doubt many other stages are still rearing their ugly heads at times). What's that old saying? "Like water off of the duck's back". Try to remember this - try to live this during these next months which are sure to be just this side of brutal. You KNOW you're a great dad who has been there for your kids. It truly doesn't matter what she says or thinks for that matter. It's what you KNOW that matters. Your kids KNOW your an awesome dad - that's what matters. What I would be concerned about if I were in your shoes, is the very real possibility of Parental Alienation on your wife's part. I would strongly suggest bringing this up in the upcoming counseling session - many parents don't actually realize that this is considered as emotional abuse to children. It's extremely damaging psychologically - even if done very subtly (snarky comments about dad, or mom for that matter, quickly add up to overwhelming feelings of shame (etc.) in children that are subjected to this). In many states, parental alienation is considered by the Courts, as well as, Children's Services to be equally as damaging to children as physical abuse. Many parents guilty of this have lost even shared custody over this. She simply cannot bad-mouth you to the kids. period. Not that this IS happening, but it sure could be on the horizon just based off of these initial exchanges. As far as gaining digital access to your kid's school data (as well as teacher email's) - maybe ask her one more time for this information, and let her know you'll go to their schools/teachers to get it if need be. Trust me, she doesn't want that to happen - too embarrassing (for her). You have a right to this info as I'm sure you know. If she won't give it to you, go to the admin office at their schools and just ask for the info. Trust me, the school staffers have heard it all, and they'll give it to you - just bring your i.d. I hate to say it, but, it's probably going to get even more difficult before it gets easier. But, it WILL get easier, and you will get to the other side. xx |
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Post by lyn on Mar 11, 2017 2:42:37 GMT -5
And yes - pelvic floor exercises (Kegel's) are a very real thing! Damn, now I'm doing them too - lol thanks for the reminder eternaloptimism |
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Post by eternaloptimism on Mar 11, 2017 3:12:57 GMT -5
And yes - pelvic floor exercises (Kegel's) are a very real thing! Damn, now I'm doing them too - lol thanks for the reminder eternaloptimism Every notification for this thread sets me off again! I'll have the worlds strongest vagina soon lol! X |
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Post by shamwow on Mar 11, 2017 7:56:10 GMT -5
As you know, shamwow , your W is in the midst of the grieving process here. In fact, she's pretty much at the beginning (still definitely in the Anger stage probably mixed with Denial) and you, well, have had years to get to the point your at; acceptance - no doubt many other stages are still rearing their ugly heads at times). What's that old saying? "Like water off of the duck's back". Try to remember this - try to live this during these next months which are sure to be just this side of brutal. You KNOW you're a great dad who has been there for your kids. It truly doesn't matter what she says or thinks for that matter. It's what you KNOW that matters. Your kids KNOW your an awesome dad - that's what matters. What I would be concerned about if I were in your shoes, is the very real possibility of Parental Alienation on your wife's part. I would strongly suggest bringing this up in the upcoming counseling session - many parents don't actually realize that this is considered as emotional abuse to children. It's extremely damaging psychologically - even if done very subtly (snarky comments about dad, or mom for that matter, quickly add up to overwhelming feelings of shame (etc.) in children that are subjected to this). In many states, parental alienation is considered by the Courts, as well as, Children's Services to be equally as damaging to children as physical abuse. Many parents guilty of this have lost even shared custody over this. She simply cannot bad-mouth you to the kids. period. Not that this IS happening, but it sure could be on the horizon just based off of these initial exchanges. As far as gaining digital access to your kid's school data (as well as teacher email's) - maybe ask her one more time for this information, and let her know you'll go to their schools/teachers to get it if need be. Trust me, she doesn't want that to happen - too embarrassing (for her). You have a right to this info as I'm sure you know. If she won't give it to you, go to the admin office at their schools and just ask for the info. Trust me, the school staffers have heard it all, and they'll give it to you - just bring your i.d. I hate to say it, but, it's probably going to get even more difficult before it gets easier. But, it WILL get easier, and you will get to the other side. xx That is one thing I have to keep reminding myself. I knew literally a year ago that this day was on the way. I cleaned up a bunch of my bad habits, started making a diligent and conscious effort to be an essential element in my kid's life (I already was, but started looking at it with an eventual divorce in mind). I began to let go of (most of) the anger and stop asking "why". As you said, I started to accept this. Now, a year down the road, I recognize that I'd be a TOTAL basket case at this point if I hadn't taken that time to get my head wrapped around things and start my own healing process. I have to constantly remind myself that until 2 months ago, she was running fine on sexless marriage mode and had no idea this was coming. Granted, it always amazes me how a partner who acts as a roommate for years on end can expect ANYTHING else other than this, but just reading here, it happens over and over and over again. Water off a duck's back. I guess when I get too wrapped up in the day to day "I can't believe she said THAT", someone just needs to tell me "quack". As you and others have reminded me, the worst is yet to come. The kids don't know yet. Most of our families don't know. There will be interesting conversations with neighbors (who are also friends) when a "for sale" sign goes up outside. All of these are things I need to begin thinking about NOW. I'm going to make some mistakes along the way. Probably some whoppers. But all I can do is the best I can do. As far as the schools, she sent me that information last night. What I'm doing now is follow the same path that she has modeled. She has a calendar that keeps track of all the kids activities, school, projects, etc... I already had my own version of the activities calendar. I think I need to incorporate the school one and make sure I'm in the loop on things such as parent teacher conferences. Both of our lives are going to change tremendously here. She is going to have to come to terms with our marriage ending. Her lifestyle is going to take a hit, and she is going to have to re-enter the working world. Her flexibility as a SAHM is not going to be there anymore. I don't think she has internalized that yet. As she does, there is going to be anger. Probably lots of it. Much of it will be directed at me (quack). In truth, she has hurt me more than any other person I've ever known. But we have two wonderful kids together than need BOTH of their parents. I'm a little further down the path to acceptance, and for the kid's sake, it is my responsibility to help lead her there too. But my life is going to change too. We split everything pretty evenly (kid activities, laundry, dishes, cooking, etc...). But I'm going to have to get used to not having someone to lean on to do half of those things too. She is GOING to piss me off along the way. I've got to police my own mouth to make sure none of that leaks to the kids. Hopefully, I can continue this philosophical high road when the shit starts hitting the fan. |
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Post by greatcoastal on Mar 11, 2017 8:53:42 GMT -5
shrink4men.com/2010/11/02/parental-alienation-programming-and-brainwashing/This has been an on going battle through much of our deteriorating years of our marriage. When it's time to discipline older children. Things I would not tolerate, and feel the teens need discipline. While I then get painted as the "bad guy" by my wife saying, "I don't have a problem with it", or "you get too angry, It's not that important, didn't you do that when you where younger?" What really gets her is when I say, "NO I didn't! My mother would not allow such things, that's how I was raised." I also noticed when I would say, "fine, you do it then, if I am so wrong" her approach was 95% what I proposed anyway. It had to be "her way" though. She had to have control. Much of it would go on behind my back. Your taking a good healthy approach about the stages you are both in. Balance it and stand up for yourself. Keep the playing field level, as best you can. Hope this info. helps you. Sadly it will continue, before it gets better. Thankfully it gets better.
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Post by greatcoastal on Mar 11, 2017 9:01:35 GMT -5
The presence of lawyers and finite resources in a conflict like this, is like having a fistfight in a room with a handgun on the table. The person losing is going to feel tempted to go for the gun, and then it's a gunfight. So the task with both of you is to not only BE generous with each other on the things you can be, but to also maintain the APPEARANCE of doing so, so as to remove any ambiguity about intentions. ^^ This^^ is one opinion. My experience is proving that having an attorney present helping both sides, levels the playing field. More and more attorneys are going for collaborative law, and mediation. Eliminating a judge as much as possible. This gives you a much larger opportunity to compromise together, while a good, experienced attorney as a mediator knows what is going to be accepted and what is not for a amicable divorce. So if one is used to controlling the other, and thinks it will remain that way, they are not going to get very far with a seasoned attorney representing you. It also speeds up the process, and cuts down the cost. |
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Post by Apocrypha on Mar 11, 2017 16:00:32 GMT -5
As far as the schools, she sent me that information last night. What I'm doing now is follow the same path that she has modeled. She has a calendar that keeps track of all the kids activities, school, projects, etc... I already had my own version of the activities calendar. I think I need to incorporate the school one and make sure I'm in the loop on things such as parent teacher conferences. I recommend the phone and web app Cozi. It can be shared between family members. My ex and I have had a lot of success with the paid version of this as our base calendar. |
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Post by shamwow on Mar 11, 2017 18:28:00 GMT -5
As far as the schools, she sent me that information last night. What I'm doing now is follow the same path that she has modeled. She has a calendar that keeps track of all the kids activities, school, projects, etc... I already had my own version of the activities calendar. I think I need to incorporate the school one and make sure I'm in the loop on things such as parent teacher conferences. I recommend the phone and web app Cozi. It can be shared between family members. My ex and I have had a lot of success with the paid version of this as our base calendar. already downloaded it and will take it for a spin! |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2017 11:48:40 GMT -5
Shammy, I am sorry, but this kind of thing is typical. Someone who is so selfish to refuse sex is certainly selfish enough to make your life a living hell. And of course, she thinks the kids are "hers." She honestly believes that she is entitled to then. Frankly, I don't see how you are going to be able to live together like this. I wish you luck.
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