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Post by Apocrypha on Mar 10, 2017 12:42:15 GMT -5
I think i will try transitioning my baby to his own bed. Obviously if that doesn't fix the problem then it's something else. Well, you mentioned it went off when you got pregnant, so there's THAT, in addition to the toddler in the bed. That's a red flag, and what I see with him is a chaffe cloud of explanations which likely sound reasonable even to him - for not being into you. Question: did it drop when your body changed, or did it drop even BEFORE that? A lot of guys, me included, think healthy pregnant women are just objectively hot. Here's a little piece of hindsight that I tracked with Mrs Apocrypha and her biggest drops in libido. It wasn't JUST the pregnancy, and it wasn't a gradual thing. Basically every single level of investment in the lifetime household enterprise took her one step farther into antipathy. So 1. The wedding day evening - that night - a complete shift in her attitude toward sex with me. 2. The honeymoon - another disconnection- a few months later. 3. the pregnancy 4. the birth and baby 5. getting a house 6. the second pregnancy and following years - total flatline, plus her later affair. So, everything that had her putting more skin in the game - more invested in the marriage ended up with her being more turned off, feeling she was going down the wrong path, trapped in a terrible mistake. It wasn't just the kids. It was the permanence of it and the lack of an escape route. But it looked like the kids. Her affair was when we still had a baby though. See? And, it's easy to lose sight of this in trying to solve someone ELSE's disconnection as if it is a puzzle. But YOU are in the same marriage HE is in, and you want sex.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2017 14:16:08 GMT -5
To start with you have to fix yourself, fixating on the porn allows you to scapegoat your own obviously depression issues. Start by seeing your doctors. Once you can rationally see what's going on and have insight then revisit the no sex issue.
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Post by Dan on Mar 10, 2017 14:23:53 GMT -5
What's the difference in your pre-pregnancy and today's weight? Nothing. I got right back to my prepregnancy weight at 6 months. I weigh 125, workout, and eat healthy. Props to you for that! Exercise will also help keep away the blues -- which is more likely to set in if you are sedentary. Plus, hey, if your H doesn't come 'round after giving him proper notice that the current situation is unacceptable, maybe you'll start noticing the guys at the gym who are noticing you...
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Post by mrslowmaintenance on Mar 10, 2017 16:16:23 GMT -5
My H told me when we were considering getting pregnant that he was not into pregnant woman and to not expect any full sex once I'm showing, so I knew that was coming. But keep in mind showing signs of growing motherhood can be a turn off for a lot of guys. Also, my H has vocalized that it is really a huge metal block to even imagine our little could walk in on us with in the act. I know he actually can be crazy horny but not be able to get an erection when she is awake in the other room (because I have tried the put on her favorite movie, sneak a quickie on the other side of the house, move with no luck).
Hope that gives some perspective, it's not an easy thing to talk about
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Post by wom360 on Mar 10, 2017 16:27:28 GMT -5
Realize I'm fishing for answers but was he hesitant about fatherhood? The weight of responsibility on his shoulders? What percentage of the household income does he provide?
Also, does his father overtly flirt with his mother? Do his parents have an obviously sexual marriage?
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Post by csl on Mar 10, 2017 16:42:18 GMT -5
Mrs. Amers,
Everyone has addressed the kid in the bed issue, so not gonna add my piddling 2cents. But as to porn? Some comments
1 - Just as a child is weaned from breastfeeding to solid foods, your husband has (through circumstances) been weaned away from sex with you. To something that you feel you can't compete with (but that's not actually true.)
2 - Yes, at this time, it's just possible that your hubs might just prefer porn. After all, it's a sure thing, whereas..... It's quick, it's no-hassle, it doesn't take foreplay to get your partner revved up, so, unfortunately, to him it DOES have its appeal.
3 - Yes, he IS cheating on you with his phone/tablet/computer/etc., pure and simple. He's choosing to get his jollies without you.
So let him know that you are claiming the right of first refusal. Yeah, the porn is stinkin' (I write from a conservative Christian stance, so I have no toleration for it.) However, you tell him that if he's getting an urge to watch it, that he comes to you first (you promise you won't blast the boy) and lets you know. That will give you an opportunity to have conversations, etc. (and more, I hope.)
Be sure to tell him that you want to have a sex life too, that you need a good rogering from time to time. Yes, he needs to be there for you and you can promise to be there for him. As I write on my blog "It's not his sex life, it's not her sex life; it's Y'ALL'S sex life."
(btw, as to the having to compete fear, not to worry; unless the guy is an addict, I can't imagine any guy who'd prefer a porno on his phone to a wantin' woman in his bed.)
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Post by dancingbear70 on Mar 10, 2017 16:48:44 GMT -5
To start with you have to fix yourself, fixating on the porn allows you to scapegoat your own obviously depression issues. Start by seeing your doctors. Once you can rationally see what's going on and have insight then revisit the no sex issue. My friend @thecelt sounds a bit harsh here, but I would echo some of his sentiment. I find your reaction to occasional porn fairly extreme. Try to separate that from your interactions as a couple. Don't judge him or allow it to affect your self-esteem. It is only creating another barrier. Most others are focusing on the baby. I get that. And it might not be helping. But simply setting the environment probably won't change what is in his head. And that is what you do not know. You guys haven't been together very long. This is a point where presuming can lead you down a rabbit hole. You say what most here say (at least to start). Everything is fine except the sex. The biggest lesson that I have learn here is that it is almost never the case. Think about it. At bare minimum, he cant explain to you why he doesn't want to have sex. And I presume from your writings that you don't know how to push his buttons to seduce him. Don't expect moving a baby to change that.
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Post by Apocrypha on Mar 10, 2017 17:27:24 GMT -5
Mrs. Amers, Everyone has addressed the kid in the bed issue, so not gonna add my piddling 2cents. But as to porn? Some comments 1 - Just as a child is weaned from breastfeeding to solid foods, your husband has (through circumstances) been weaned away from sex with you. To something that you feel you can't compete with (but that's not actually true.) 2 - Yes, at this time, it's just possible that your hubs might just prefer porn. After all, it's a sure thing, whereas..... It's quick, it's no-hassle, it doesn't take foreplay to get your partner revved up, so, unfortunately, to him it DOES have its appeal. 3 - Yes, he IS cheating on you with his phone/tablet/computer/etc., pure and simple. He's choosing to get his jollies without you. So let him know that you are claiming the right of first refusal. Yeah, the porn is stinkin' (I write from a conservative Christian stance, so I have no toleration for it.) However, you tell him that if he's getting an urge to watch it, that he comes to you first (you promise you won't blast the boy) and lets you know. That will give you an opportunity to have conversations, etc. (and more, I hope.) It would be difficult for me to overstate the extent to which I disagree with this focus on porn. This appears to me as fundamentalist Christian continuum model "Reefer Madness" fear mongering, scaring people about the Devil's Lettuce - Dancing leads to touching leads to etc etc. I think it will serve only to distract from uncomfortable truths. I understand the outrage - I felt it myself when I walked into Mrs Apocrypha using the showerhead to flick her bean when I stumbled in on her, just prior to bed on what had likely been two or three months without - while it was very prominent in our discussions. So, what would you say? She's addicted to shower nozzles? Come on. It's not cheating, and there's no addiction. The simplest answer is the most likely, and the hardest to see. He had a libido. For whatever reason, he is no longer into her. This isn't CAUSED by porn. It's caused by antipathy toward sharing sexual intimacy with her. Maybe he isn't attracted anymore. Maybe a deep simmering anger has taken over. Most likely, he feels trapped in a marriage that he doesn't want and the idea of engaging in intimacy feels like it's putting more bricks into the wall. Whatever it is - he's expressing his libido through fantasy, and that is a NORMAL response to NOT wanting to be intimate with someone - to choose other outlets. Do you really think porn is so great that it seems a better alternative to fucking a person you want? I can tell you it's a lot better than fucking someone you DON'T want. Do you think yelling at a guy to dump his porn, and then after that, presumably to forbid him from tossing off, is going to make him suddenly open his eyes to the person who is right there? Do you think he just forgot?
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Post by csl on Mar 10, 2017 19:05:34 GMT -5
It would be difficult for me to overstate the extent to which I disagree with this focus on porn. This appears to me as fundie Christian continuum model "Reefer Madness" fear mongering, scaring people about the Devil's Lettuce - Dancing leads to touching leads to etc etc. I think it will serve only to distract from uncomfortable truths. I understand the outrage - I felt it myself when I walked into Mrs Apocrypha using the showerhead to flick her bean when I stumbled in on her, just prior to bed on what had likely been two or three months without - while it was very prominent in our discussions. So, what would you say? She's addicted to shower nozzles? Come on. It's not cheating, and there's no addiction. The simplest answer is the most likely, and the hardest to see. He had a libido. For whatever reason, he is no longer into her. This isn't CAUSED by porn. It's caused by antipathy toward sharing sexual intimacy with her. Maybe he isn't attracted anymore. Maybe a deep simmering anger has taken over. Most likely, he feels trapped in a marriage that he doesn't want and the idea of engaging in intimacy feels like it's putting more bricks into the wall. Whatever it is - he's expressing his libido through fantasy, and that is a NORMAL response to NOT wanting to be intimate with someone - to choose other outlets. Do you really think porn is so great that it seems a better alternative to fucking a person you want? I can tell you it's a lot better than fucking someone you DON'T want. Do you think yelling at a guy to dump his porn, and then after that, presumably to forbid him from tossing off, is going to make him suddenly open his eyes to the person who is right there? Do you think he just forgot? Okay, now that I've had a chance to re-examine my intended response and allowed my inner editor to have a shot at this: 1 - bigoted. "fundie Christian"? 2 - extremely uninformed. Equivalent of "Reefer Madness"? I'm not even going to dignify that until I know that you've digested the science presented in Gary Wilson's TEDTalk, The Great Porn Experiment.
3 - The issue is porn, not masturbating. That "addicted to shower nozzle" line was truly some of the weakest sauce I've ever seen. "It's not cheating." Getting your jollies exclusively by yourself and ignoring the sexual needs of your spouse IS believed to be cheating by many. Hence the big blow-ups by people who don't share your laissez-faire approach to porn jollification.
(btw-after having read your backstory including affairs and open marriage, I would ask you, sincerely, not in a vindictive manner, do you really think that most would side with your options vs. "fundie" values, if given only those two options?) 4 - "Do you really think porn is so great that it seems a better alternative to fucking a person you want?" I'm pretty sure I said that. Yeah, I did. 5 - "I can tell you it's a lot better than fucking someone you DON'T want." You have more insight than everyone else here? Or is it just your guess, mebbe? 6 - "Yelling", "Forbidding", etc. ... I'm pretty sure that I didn't say anything about yelling at him. And I'm pretty sure that I didn't tell her to "forbid" him from masturbating. I believe that I did say that she should have him come to her, not for a scolding, but for sex. 7 - "He's not into her. Yes, it's true, he isn't into her, AT THIS TIME. I would ask you to make a mental shift here and realize that this is a unique post and poster, unlike the normal run of ILIASM denizens, a wondrous distinction. Unlike 99% of the ILIASM newbies who come with tales of sexless woes due to a refusing spouse, we have an actual former refuser who wants to be sexually available. Yes, I know that "why-chasing" is a thing here, but in this case, the "why" might actually matter. What we have is a refuser wanting help in turning her marriage around, whereas normally we welcome a poor sod with faint encouragement and baza's three options, knowing full well that misery and/or divorce are inevitable. Maybe, just maybe, ILIASM can actually help this former refuser.
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Post by hopingforachange on Mar 10, 2017 19:32:04 GMT -5
Amers715, There are a lot of bad stories here from people that have disfunction from both sides of the relationship. Most of the people here are not able to turn the ship around but both sides throw mines overboard. There is also an important difference for you is that the intimacy/ sex issues have not gone on for decades like some of the people here. The longer the relationship troubles goes on the more baggage and counter baggage gets piled on.
Hopefully you two can get time to talk alone and figure out together what is going on with his mind, but he has to be willing to let you in. If he doesn't then there is nothing you can do to make him. That is where you need to know what you need from the relationship, be able to honestly talk about it and be able to stand your ground.
The wife and I are on month 4 of turning our relationship around. It can be done but it will be work for both of you. It sounds like for him it will be soul wrenching work. But it can be done if he wants to. If he doesn't then you have a big decision to make.
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Post by baza on Mar 10, 2017 19:49:16 GMT -5
Must admit that after Sister amers715 initial post (paraphrasing - "everything is great bar the sex") I have been waiting for the other shoe to drop. This other shoe being the one where the spouse is addicted to something, or has a claim of past sexual abuse, or has been emotionally disengaged for a long while, or is conducting an on line or real affair, or is a practitioner of verbal abuse (or worse), or whatever the core problem(s) actually are - and that these issues of the spouse are not acknowledged nor being addressed. If 8 years exposure to this (and the preceeding EP/ILIASM group) tells me anything, it is this - it is highly unlikely that the unsatisfactory sexual aspect of the deal is "THE" issue. Invariably, it is the stand out symptom of a deeper malaise.
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Post by amers715 on Mar 10, 2017 20:10:35 GMT -5
Update:
After all the posts and suggestions yesterday i decided i would talk to him about everything. He did say that our son in the bed is the main reason because we are both so tired and when he sleeps we need to sleep. And obviously that he doesn't want to wake him up. He also said the stress from moving, his job, and bills has taken a toll on us. So...we are starting with the transition of our baby sleeping in his own bed. He said he is definitely still attracted to me and still in love with me and that has never been an issue. As for the porn. He admitted it. I explained to him how it makes me feel and he has promised to stop. So we'll see how it goes and I'll update again! Hoping it will get better.
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Post by shamwow on Mar 10, 2017 20:49:17 GMT -5
Update: After all the posts and suggestions yesterday i decided i would talk to him about everything. He did say that our son in the bed is the main reason because we are both so tired and when he sleeps we need to sleep. And obviously that he doesn't want to wake him up. He also said the stress from moving, his job, and bills has taken a toll on us. So...we are starting with the transition of our baby sleeping in his own bed. He said he is definitely still attracted to me and still in love with me and that has never been an issue. As for the porn. He admitted it. I explained to him how it makes me feel and he has promised to stop. So we'll see how it goes and I'll update again! Hoping it will get better. If moving the baby is enough to jump start the ol love life I'd personally give the porn a pass IMHO.
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Post by hopingforachange on Mar 10, 2017 21:44:58 GMT -5
Must admit that after Sister amers715 initial post (paraphrasing - "everything is great bar the sex") I have been waiting for the other shoe to drop. This other shoe being the one where the spouse is addicted to something, or has a claim of past sexual abuse, or has been emotionally disengaged for a long while, or is conducting an on line or real affair, or is a practitioner of verbal abuse (or worse), or whatever the core problem(s) actually are - and that these issues of the spouse are not acknowledged nor being addressed. If 8 years exposure to this (and the preceeding EP/ILIASM group) tells me anything, it is this - it is highly unlikely that the unsatisfactory sexual aspect of the deal is "THE" issue. Invariably, it is the stand out symptom of a deeper malaise. I do think that majority of the people here fit those shoes. Some of us don't have the abuse issues but communication and assumptions about marriage issues that can be worked thru. I will say that thanks to the wife meeting my needs last night, I am way way more optimistic then I normally am.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2017 23:50:41 GMT -5
I would like to say that SM can be changed. My wife and I are turning our marriage around. It's been 5 months of a lot of work. Both spouses have to become invested in the relationship.
I did not force my wife to join me. She had to want a great marriage with sex. When you're happy, you feel more like having sex. I like to make my wife happy and she desires to make me just as happy. Now, we're starting a habit of taking care of one another each day. It's not something we agree to do each day. We just do it.
We have children but now we put each other first. I love my children but it's my wife who I'm going to live with the rest of my life. I better cultivate a great relationship built on respect.
If you really want to start off well, then stop bringing up the past. Take an honest look at yourself and be truthful. Don't lie to yourself. See the role that you've played in the relationship. You have to change this aspect of yourself, because it caused the problems in the first place. Of course, your spouse has to look at the role that they played. The hard part is not nagging them to change. Let them know once and then be done with it. Nagging only pushes people away.
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