|
|
Post by randy53 on Mar 3, 2017 17:54:42 GMT -5
My wife hasn't had sex with me for 4 years. When I try to get something started, she brings up what ever the last thing she was mad at me about.
So what I'm wondering is what does she think is going to happen? That I'm going to wait forever? Everything is always on her terms, she would never do anything because I wanted her to do.
|
|
|
|
Post by baza on Mar 3, 2017 22:12:58 GMT -5
"What are refusers thinking ?" Generally, refusers are not thinking long term at all. They are thinking only short term - how to avoid the immediate situation that might involve icky messy sex. Anyone with half a brain can figure out that long term sexual refusal is going to result in the refused spouse getting more and more pissed off, thus driving the marriage into ILIASM shithole status and running a big risk of collapsing the deal. Anyone with half a brain AND thinking long term that is. Refusers are not renown for their long term thinking. And that, is understandable to some extent. If - as described - there's been no rooting for 4 years, and you are still there, the refuser probably thinks that the risk of you leaving is pretty low. And on the evidence, that's a reasonable conclusion for the refuser to make. Is there actually any credible threat to your ILIASM shithole continuing Brother randy53 ? Do you have an alternate plan at all ? |
|
|
|
Post by randy53 on Mar 3, 2017 22:44:22 GMT -5
"What are refusers thinking ?" Generally, refusers are not thinking long term at all. They are thinking only short term - how to avoid the immediate situation that might involve icky messy sex. Anyone with half a brain can figure out that long term sexual refusal is going to result in the refused spouse getting more and more pissed off, thus driving the marriage into ILIASM shithole status and running a big risk of collapsing the deal. Anyone with half a brain AND thinking long term that is. Refusers are not renown for their long term thinking. And that, is understandable to some extent. If - as described - there's been no rooting for 4 years, and you are still there, the refuser probably thinks that the risk of you leaving is pretty low. And on the evidence, that's a reasonable conclusion for the refuser to make. Is there actually any credible threat to your ILIASM shithole continuing Brother randy53 ? Do you have an alternate plan at all ? I guess I'm on the college plan. My son is 16 and I think it would be easier if I was here for him. |
|
|
|
Post by GeekGoddess on Mar 3, 2017 23:20:14 GMT -5
Well, there you go. She's thinking that you wouldn't DARE leave no matter what she treats you like. And I bet you won't. You're willing to sacrifice your own happiness, & you don't mind modeling a bad dynamic for your son. By the time he is out, the damage to him will already be done. And you'll be more broken than you are now. Perhaps so broken that you never do leave.
I'm sorry- I'm in a harsh mood tonight.
Your son will mimic what you show. I wouldn't want my son to think a dysfunctional relationship is something one "must suffer through" - I would want him to see me not settle for shitty treatment.
Again - I apologize for my tone. Sometimes I think startling a newcomer is more eye-opening, so thought I'd take a crack at it.
I think it would be far better to at least get a therapist for yourself so that you can try to prevent erosion of your own power over the waiting period.
You are doing this on her terms. That is a valid choice, but it is not your only option.
Good luck navigating,
|
|
|
|
Post by randy53 on Mar 3, 2017 23:40:33 GMT -5
Well, there you go. She's thinking that you wouldn't DARE leave no matter what she treats you like. And I bet you won't. You're willing to sacrifice your own happiness, & you don't mind modeling a bad dynamic for your son. By the time he is out, the damage to him will already be done. And you'll be more broken than you are now. Perhaps so broken that you never do leave. I'm sorry- I'm in a harsh mood tonight. Your son will mimic what you show. I wouldn't want my son to think a dysfunctional relationship is something one "must suffer through" - I would want him to see me not settle for shitty treatment. Again - I apologize for my tone. Sometimes I think startling a newcomer is more eye-opening, so thought I'd take a crack at it. I think it would be far better to at least get a therapist for yourself so that you can try to prevent erosion of your own power over the waiting period. You are doing this on her terms. That is a valid choice, but it is not your only option. Good luck navigating, We did the counseling, she still doesn't think she has done anything wrong. When the counselor told her anything she would say it like it was to both of us, which I get she doesn't want to take sides. Anyway when we get to the car, she acted like all of it was directed at me. I guess I really don't know what to do. |
|
|
|
Post by shamwow on Mar 4, 2017 0:08:47 GMT -5
I have a 16 year old daughter. At some point I realized that "staying for the kids" is doing them more harm than good. Right when my daughter is starting to date she is learning how relationships should work from my wife and I.
That model will do her more lasting harm than seeing my wife and I amicably part ways as husband and wife while staying as a team to raise the kids.
I summoned the testicular fortitude about a month and a half ago and things are proceeding apace. It isn't easy, but neither is 2 1/2 years as a monk.
Oh and amazingly it was still a shock to her.
|
|
|
|
Post by lyn on Mar 4, 2017 2:26:16 GMT -5
Hi randy53 - I too have a son and he just turned 18. One of my flagposts for leaving was when he became college bound. He graduated from high School last June, and I have yet to leave. Granted, it is my plan to exit in a relatively short period of time. I'm only telling you this so that you know that I hear you, and understand. Just like so many of us on this forum. Many many similar stories. Why have I waited? Sure, I'll tell you it was this arbitrary age of my child but, if I'm being honest, fear is the more accurate answer. Maybe complacency- take your pick. In any case, my child going off to college was just a convenient excuse to appease my own conscience. My own guilt for sacrificing so much of my self for what? Nothing. I'm not assuming you're afraid to leave, but, maybe it's something to consider. |
|
|
|
Post by darktippedrose on Mar 4, 2017 2:49:22 GMT -5
Well, there you go. She's thinking that you wouldn't DARE leave no matter what she treats you like. And I bet you won't. You're willing to sacrifice your own happiness, & you don't mind modeling a bad dynamic for your son. By the time he is out, the damage to him will already be done. And you'll be more broken than you are now. Perhaps so broken that you never do leave. I'm sorry- I'm in a harsh mood tonight. Your son will mimic what you show. I wouldn't want my son to think a dysfunctional relationship is something one "must suffer through" - I would want him to see me not settle for shitty treatment. Again - I apologize for my tone. Sometimes I think startling a newcomer is more eye-opening, so thought I'd take a crack at it. I think it would be far better to at least get a therapist for yourself so that you can try to prevent erosion of your own power over the waiting period. You are doing this on her terms. That is a valid choice, but it is not your only option. Good luck navigating, We did the counseling, she still doesn't think she has done anything wrong. When the counselor told her anything she would say it like it was to both of us, which I get she doesn't want to take sides. Anyway when we get to the car, she acted like all of it was directed at me. I guess I really don't know what to do. Individual therapy works wonders. they are in your corner, or at least should be. I had to quit my therapy because of transportation issues. but I highly recommend it. I'm still married and such but one thing I learned, that still helps me, was to realize that I am NOT crazy and that my spouse is great at mind games. |
|
|
|
Post by baza on Mar 4, 2017 3:56:04 GMT -5
There are various "deferment" methods - like the "college plan" - people come up with to delay a choice that could be made now, to a later date.
If you really want to know whether you are genuine about this deferment choice, or are bullshitting yourself, here's a pretty good indicator - - -
Have you taken legal advice from a lawyer in your jurisdiction to establish how a divorce would shake out for you now, and how it would shake out at "college" time ?
If you haven't, there is a very high probability that you are bullshitting yourself about enacting "the college plan".
There's a BIG difference between a vague reference to a future trigger date, and a solid do-able plan in hand to enact on a given future date.
There's nothing wrong with choosing to stay in your ILIASM shithole.
That is a perfectly valid choice, as is leaving, as is cheating.
But it is important - critically important - that you don't bullshit yourself about what you are - and are not - prepared to do.
|
|
|
|
Post by dinnaken on Mar 4, 2017 7:38:23 GMT -5
Hello Randy53
I can see exactly where you are coming from. I'm new here and only found the site when I was 'going through the door', on my way out of the marriage; I wished I had found it sooner.
I've stayed until my child has left university. At which point I discovered this site and 'power-read' through the threads and posts with a growing realisation that I had been, as Baza puts it (spot-on) "Bull-shitting myself". Guilt and fear also played their parts in my reluctance to leave.
As to what they think, again, I agree with Baza on this; my wife is a very intelligent woman (Ph. D) who lives in the moment, is impulsive and controlling. With hindsight, at key points in our marriage she didn't consider the results of her choices.
As Geek Goddess rightly points out this has an impact on our kids; they don't necessarily misbehave - my child is tall, slim and very good looking (doesn't get his looks from either of us!) and yet, although he in now in his early twenties, he has never dated, his parents are not a positive roles models for a close, loving relationship.
I can only sign off with what a counsellor said to me as I finished our final session "You are an intelligent man. You know what your options are and the consequences that will flow from each of them. The choice is yours..."
Best wishes, my thoughts are with you
|
|
|
|
Post by snowman12345 on Mar 4, 2017 7:41:29 GMT -5
randy53 your wife is manipulating you. What I get from your story is that she is always able to put the blame back on you. No sex? - well, it's because you made her mad. Marital problems - see, even the therapist says it's your fault. This is called "gaslighting". See it for what it is. As for the college plan - a 16 year old is starting to look around for potential relationships - he is going to model the relationship he is closest to - yours. What are you teaching him to be? Are you really doing him any favors? Just some things to think about. It is your life and your choices. I hope you find peace.
|
|
|
|
Post by randy53 on Mar 4, 2017 9:51:36 GMT -5
There are various "deferment" methods - like the "college plan" - people come up with to delay a choice that could be made now, to a later date. If you really want to know whether you are genuine about this deferment choice, or are bullshitting yourself, here's a pretty good indicator - - - Have you taken legal advice from a lawyer in your jurisdiction to establish how a divorce would shake out for you now, and how it would shake out at "college" time ? If you haven't, there is a very high probability that you are bullshitting yourself about enacting "the college plan". There's a BIG difference between a vague reference to a future trigger date, and a solid do-able plan in hand to enact on a given future date. There's nothing wrong with choosing to stay in your ILIASM shithole. That is a perfectly valid choice, as is leaving, as is cheating. But it is important - critically important - that you don't bullshit yourself about what you are - and are not - prepared to do. I haven't talked to a lawyer yet, but I figured if my son is 18 I won't have to worry about child support making the legal aspect easier/cheaper |
|
|
|
Post by GeekGoddess on Mar 4, 2017 10:50:48 GMT -5
randy53 - that may depend on where you live, what you two agree to, and how college will be paid for if that is in your son's plan. The most reasonable thing to do is to visit a lawyer now to check your assumptions. Make sure that what you think is true IS accurate. I don't think it's healthy to "stay together for the kids" but it is woven so deeply into the social myth, it is hard to root out. I'm sorry she even managed to twist joint counseling around and blame you for her choices. You are not a victim unless you choose to be. I still suggest individual counseling FOR YOU. Don't take her with you. Leave her to her choices. Counseling can help YOU see what your choices are (and usually, help you see how many MORE choices you have than you can currently think of now). Best to you,
|
|
|
|
Post by randy53 on Mar 4, 2017 11:05:59 GMT -5
randy53 - that may depend on where you live, what you two agree to, and how college will be paid for if that is in your son's plan. The most reasonable thing to do is to visit a lawyer now to check your assumptions. Make sure that what you think is true IS accurate. I don't think it's healthy to "stay together for the kids" but it is woven so deeply into the social myth, it is hard to root out. I'm sorry she even managed to twist joint counseling around and blame you for her choices. You are not a victim unless you choose to be. I still suggest individual counseling FOR YOU. Don't take her with you. Leave her to her choices. Counseling can help YOU see what your choices are (and usually, help you see how many MORE choices you have than you can currently think of now). Best to you, Thanks GeekGoddess you've been a big help |
|
|
|
Post by solodriver on Mar 4, 2017 14:56:11 GMT -5
My wife hasn't had sex with me for 4 years. When I try to get something started, she brings up what ever the last thing she was mad at me about. So what I'm wondering is what does she think is going to happen? That I'm going to wait forever? Everything is always on her terms, she would never do anything because I wanted her to do. Hi Randy53, So sorry to hear your story, but mine is very similar to yours. After about 10 years, my wife decided that I needed to make some changes in myself before she would have sex with me again. So I made those changes and guess what? The next time, she said she had more changes she wanted me to try. Then it was medical issues and then the topper - menopause. She informed me that she could no longer engage in any sex because she had lost her sex drive and wasn't going to take any hormonal meds that might bring it back because of the fear of cancer. So here I am, almost 17 years into a sexless marriage. I joined this group last year to get support and be able to learn from other people's experiences, which has been a tremendous help.
What I now know is that I'm no longer a victim. I'm still here by choice. My refuser wife is not ever going to change now, so there will never be any sexual, physical or emotional relationship between us again. We're just legal roommates. We sleep in separate rooms now because of her gripes about sharing the bed (covers, touching, snoring etc.). I've accepted for now that this is the relationship she desires. I'm here because I'm financially better off then if I were to divorce. So at this point, I go along to get along. But I also do what I need to do to try and make myself happy and I don't let my wife's opinions stop me from doing what I want to do. If she chooses to participate, fine, but I do many activities now without her. She just chooses to stay at home watching TV.
I'm glad you found us and you will have to make a hard choice. None of them are pleasant. I get no pleasure or enjoyment in being married to someone who decided to quit being loving, caring and romantic and just gripes and complains about everything all the time. But it's the hard choice I made for now. It certainly doesn't mean I'm locked into this choice. I can and may make another choice, if and or when, I choose to do so or an opportunity comes along.
You will find supportive friends here. As we say here "welcome to the group NO ONE wants to be a member of".
|
|
