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Post by McRoomMate on Feb 25, 2017 12:39:04 GMT -5
Consider the following:
To turn around a Sexless Marriage, the couple needs to have these 2 essential conditions fulfilled or any hope is futile:
1. BOTH must still be in love
2. BOTH must be willing to work / sacrifice / efforts for the good of the couple
I will venture to say the first condition about being IN LOVE is really the main thing.
The reason 99% or more of SM fail is because of a bigger problem and that is lack of genuine real "being in love" (or more mature phase of "Love" like deep affection and feelings, but love nonetheless).
The spouses are not really in love but rather it is a million other reasons to keep the marriage such as: fear of being alone, social status, society approval, financial security, fear of change, stay together for the children etc.
Also, many of us I think would agree - the Sexless Marriage issue after really analyzing and soul searching the Marriage is just a mere system of bigger problems in the Marriage.
And all this dysfunction and toxicity which one finds upon analysis (resentment, control issues, fear based living, people pleasing, etc.) ends up killing whatever Love there ever was in the Marriage and once it is dead it is gone for good. In other words, Love cannot be fabricated or reproduced once it is dead in the relationship.
Thoughts please?
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Post by bballgirl on Feb 25, 2017 13:14:24 GMT -5
I got to a breaking point that I was no longer in love with my H.
I loved him in a brotherly way as the father of my children.
In 2013 we had a few of The Talks, said we would try harder, had reset sex, I was still in love still willing to work on it but with a lot of skepticism. At that point he was the only man I had ever been with. So we had reset sex 3 times in a month, it wasn't good but I didn't know just how bad it was. So after the reset sex, it was all downhill and he never initiated sex with me. Feb. 2014 I called time of death on the marriage and became a counter refuser. Later that year I met my AP, I experienced the most mind blowing sex ever. So I was in love and willing to work on the marriage but he never was. I asked him to go to marriage counseling 3 times over the course of a few years and he said no every single time. Then in 2015 when I announced the divorce he wanted to go to counseling and it was too late. I went for one session and at the end the therapist told him to get an attorney and he could continue with individual therapy.
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Post by McRoomMate on Feb 25, 2017 13:19:14 GMT -5
I got to a breaking point that I was no longer in love with my H. I loved him in a brotherly way as the father of my children. In 2013 we had a few of The Talks, said we would try harder, had reset sex, I was still in love still willing to work on it but with a lot of skepticism. At that point he was the only man I had ever been with. So we had reset sex 3 times in a month, it wasn't good but I didn't know just how bad it was. So after the reset sex, it was all downhill and he never initiated sex with me. Feb. 2014 I called time of death on the marriage and became a counter refuser. Later that year I met my AP, I experienced the most mind blowing sex ever. So I was in love and willing to work on the marriage but he never was. I asked him to go to marriage counseling 3 times over the course of a few years and he said no every single time. Then in 2015 when I announced the divorce he wanted to go to counseling and it was too late. I went for one session and at the end the therapist told him to get an attorney and he could continue with individual therapy. Thank-you bballgirl Very helpful to read. I too have become now the Counter-Refuser. We discussed the Big D a month ago and all of a sudden someone is making some efforts - but I cannot. I am not angry or resentful - I just feel nothing any more. The Love seems to have been killed by the toxicity. I am not innocent I see my part in the collapse too. |
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Post by shamwow on Feb 25, 2017 13:28:41 GMT -5
I would tend to agree with the "in love" aspect. I think I realized I was done about a year ago when I just said out loud one day "I have no love for that woman"
Now in retrospect, that statement was a bit of an overstatement. I still care about her. Deeply, as a matter of fact. She is a good woman, and is the mother of my children. We have 20 years of history. But I am no longer "in love" with her. And that, as they say, is that.
So far we are amicable about the split. Her lack of attempt to "win me back" tends to make me think she feels the same way but just has trouble saying it. I am thankful we are handling this like compassionate adults (so far) and have a good chance of remaining friends afterwards.
But I agree. The time of death is when I said to myself "I am no longer in love with her and have no desire to fall back in love with her again." Just about a year ago today.
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Post by shamwow on Feb 25, 2017 13:31:15 GMT -5
I got to a breaking point that I was no longer in love with my H. I loved him in a brotherly way as the father of my children. In 2013 we had a few of The Talks, said we would try harder, had reset sex, I was still in love still willing to work on it but with a lot of skepticism. At that point he was the only man I had ever been with. So we had reset sex 3 times in a month, it wasn't good but I didn't know just how bad it was. So after the reset sex, it was all downhill and he never initiated sex with me. Feb. 2014 I called time of death on the marriage and became a counter refuser. Later that year I met my AP, I experienced the most mind blowing sex ever. So I was in love and willing to work on the marriage but he never was. I asked him to go to marriage counseling 3 times over the course of a few years and he said no every single time. Then in 2015 when I announced the divorce he wanted to go to counseling and it was too late. I went for one session and at the end the therapist told him to get an attorney and he could continue with individual therapy. Hmmmm.... I am not sure if I am a counter refuser or not since she has not initiated an attempt. However if an attempt was made I would certainly refuse at this point. I guess that makes me a latent counter refuser? |
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Post by bballgirl on Feb 25, 2017 13:42:11 GMT -5
I got to a breaking point that I was no longer in love with my H. I loved him in a brotherly way as the father of my children. In 2013 we had a few of The Talks, said we would try harder, had reset sex, I was still in love still willing to work on it but with a lot of skepticism. At that point he was the only man I had ever been with. So we had reset sex 3 times in a month, it wasn't good but I didn't know just how bad it was. So after the reset sex, it was all downhill and he never initiated sex with me. Feb. 2014 I called time of death on the marriage and became a counter refuser. Later that year I met my AP, I experienced the most mind blowing sex ever. So I was in love and willing to work on the marriage but he never was. I asked him to go to marriage counseling 3 times over the course of a few years and he said no every single time. Then in 2015 when I announced the divorce he wanted to go to counseling and it was too late. I went for one session and at the end the therapist told him to get an attorney and he could continue with individual therapy. Hmmmm.... I am not sure if I am a counter refuser or not since she has not initiated an attempt. However if an attempt was made I would certainly refuse at this point. I guess that makes me a latent counter refuser? You are a counter refuser. I never got the chance to refuse him either but I started refusing other ways. I detached, I refused to go to a movie with him, sit and watch tv with him every night, I jus did my own thing. With the kids and family events we kept up appearances. If he ever did try I would have really let him have it. I never got that chance though. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2017 14:37:53 GMT -5
These are some ideas that I'm testing in my own relationship. Is my wife willing to do these things? Am I willing to do them for my wife?
Are you willing to do something that may not always bring you happiness?
Are you willing to sacrifice for your spouse?
Does it make you happy to do something for your spouse they like?
Do you want to do the work to develop a deep bond?
I see these questions as a type of love measurement. If you love someone then it want be hard to do the above things.
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Post by bballgirl on Feb 25, 2017 14:44:35 GMT -5
These are some ideas that I'm testing in my own relationship. Is my wife willing to do these things? Am I willing to do them for my wife? Are you willing to do something that may not always bring you happiness? Are you willing to sacrifice for your spouse? Does it make you happy to do something for your spouse they like? Do you want to do the work to develop a deep bond? I see these questions as a type of love measurement. If you love someone then it want be hard to do the above things. Heck even if you don't love them it's not hard to do. That's why sex is a barometer of the love and the relationship. My future motto if I'm ever in another relationship: "Fuck me or I'm getting the fuck out". That will be made perfectly clear. Unfortunately the men I meet online only want to fuck. |
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Post by shamwow on Feb 25, 2017 14:53:55 GMT -5
These are some ideas that I'm testing in my own relationship. Is my wife willing to do these things? Am I willing to do them for my wife? Are you willing to do something that may not always bring you happiness? Are you willing to sacrifice for your spouse? Does it make you happy to do something for your spouse they like? Do you want to do the work to develop a deep bond? I see these questions as a type of love measurement. If you love someone then it want be hard to do the above things. Someone pointed me to this and I found it helpful (and appropriate to your question). www.5lovelanguages.com/profile/Take the quiz. It turns out that my wife and I are most likely speaking two different languages. I say most likely since she never took it, but I've known her 23 years so put my best assessment in. But I would agree with bballgirl. My next relationship is going to be an absolute "no bullshit" affair. |
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Post by Dan on Feb 25, 2017 15:56:51 GMT -5
To turn around a Sexless Marriage, the couple needs to have these 2 essential conditions fulfilled or any hope is futile: 1. BOTH must still be in love 2. BOTH must be willing to work / sacrifice / efforts for the good of the couple I will venture to say the first condition about being IN LOVE is really the main thing. The reason 99% or more of SM fail is because of a bigger problem and that is lack of genuine real "being in love" ... Thoughts please? This doesn't jive for me. My wife loves me very much. Genuine real "being in love". Nothing fake. Despite her long list of reasons why we weren't having much sex in our first two decades, and despite our sexlessness for the past ~seven years, she still honestly truly loves me. And for the first ~26 years of our marriage, i would have said I loved her, too. My point is, all this love didn't prevent us from slipping in to sexlessness. So -- assuming I move forward with divorce -- I will NOT say "the lack of love prevented us from turning around a sexless marriage". I will say "sexlessness lead to an eroding of trust and friendship and closeness that turned what love we had left in to something other than 'spousal love'". I'm not so sure I'm actually disagreeing much, as I DO believe that your two criteria are "essential for keeping any marriage healthy". Just not sure I agree with the sense of what-causes-what as you wrote it. |
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Post by RumRunner on Feb 25, 2017 16:18:44 GMT -5
I have always said that nobody has a marriage like the one that I have. I have always thought it, and I still think it to this day. My marriage is one of dependence/co-dependence. We get along great most of the time, and are like roommates. "Sex" is completely non-existent. None! We don't even see each other naked. Sexual contact has always been something that she disliked and/or felt uncomfortable with. It saddens me really, because she really is a good person. She just doesn't have the interest or desire, and never had it. I get so frustrated sometimes, and this has been going on for so many years!!!! I have always had in my mind what a good marriage relationship should be, but I have never had it. I also struggle with guilt. Should I leave because there is no sex in my marriage? What if I never find it? Or what if I get into a situation that is worse then what I have? What about her? What will happen to her? My family? What would that make me in the eyes of family? I feel so selfish for even asking for such a thing from her. It is a dead end, and there is no hope. I ask myself this question all the time.... If I were to leave this marriage and start over again, would it really make me any happier or would it make it worse. My fears are often thinking that it would be worse.... Therefore, I stay in this situation.
I don't know what anyone here would call this, or even if you think that I am crazy; hell I know I am crazy! But this is what has been going thru my mind for many years.
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Post by bballgirl on Feb 25, 2017 16:27:21 GMT -5
I have always said that nobody has a marriage like the one that I have. I have always thought it, and I still think it to this day. My marriage is one of dependence/co-dependence. We get along great most of the time, and are like roommates. "Sex" is completely non-existent. None! We don't even see each other naked. Sexual contact has always been something that she disliked and/or felt uncomfortable with. It saddens me really, because she really is a good person. She just doesn't have the interest or desire, and never had it. I get so frustrated sometimes, and this has been going on for so many years!!!! I have always had in my mind what a good marriage relationship should be, but I have never had it. I also struggle with guilt. Should I leave because there is no sex in my marriage? What if I never find it? Or what if I get into a situation that is worse then what I have? What about her? What will happen to her? My family? What would that make me in the eyes of family? I feel so selfish for even asking for such a thing from her. It is a dead end, and there is no hope. I ask myself this question all the time.... If I were to leave this marriage and start over again, would it really make me any happier or would it make it worse. My fears are often thinking that it would be worse.... Therefore, I stay in this situation. I don't know what anyone here would call this, or even if you think that I am crazy; hell I know I am crazy! But this is what has been going thru my mind for many years. I don't think you are crazy. Leaving is scary. Plus you guys get along. If I were in your shoes I'd outsource. |
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Post by McRoomMate on Feb 25, 2017 17:46:14 GMT -5
I would tend to agree with the "in love" aspect. I think I realized I was done about a year ago when I just said out loud one day "I have no love for that woman" Now in retrospect, that statement was a bit of an overstatement. I still care about her. Deeply, as a matter of fact. She is a good woman, and is the mother of my children. We have 20 years of history. But I am no longer "in love" with her. And that, as they say, is that. So far we are amicable about the split. Her lack of attempt to "win me back" tends to make me think she feels the same way but just has trouble saying it. I am thankful we are handling this like compassionate adults (so far) and have a good chance of remaining friends afterwards. But I agree. The time of death is when I said to myself "I am no longer in love with her and have no desire to fall back in love with her again." Just about a year ago today. Thank-you shamwow Very helpful to read. I can relate to it - all too well - practically autobiographical - well I hope it continues to be similar at least the "amical" part really is yet to be seen and is a future event as I am in the "beginning of the beginning" part of this. Again much appreciation and respect for your post. |
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Post by McRoomMate on Feb 25, 2017 17:49:14 GMT -5
Hmmmm.... I am not sure if I am a counter refuser or not since she has not initiated an attempt. However if an attempt was made I would certainly refuse at this point. I guess that makes me a latent counter refuser? You are a counter refuser. I never got the chance to refuse him either but I started refusing other ways. I detached, I refused to go to a movie with him, sit and watch tv with him every night, I jus did my own thing. With the kids and family events we kept up appearances. If he ever did try I would have really let him have it. I never got that chance though. Oh yes I am now a definite "Counter-Refuser" - she has tried recently hinting about a romantic evening under the sheets and I responded with an icy cold "enthusiasm" - the death knell was Valentines Day Dinner when I went to bed and she was watching a movie on her lap top and stroked my arm like a freaking cat (we have cats in our bed often). So that did it for me. I am an official "Counter Refuser" no doubt at this point. |
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Post by baza on Feb 25, 2017 17:49:53 GMT -5
Consider the following: To turn around a Sexless Marriage, the couple needs to have these 2 essential conditions fulfilled or any hope is futile: 1. BOTH must still be in love 2. BOTH must be willing to work / sacrifice / efforts for the good of the couple I will venture to say the first condition about being IN LOVE is really the main thing. The reason 99% or more of SM fail is because of a bigger problem and that is lack of genuine real "being in love" (or more mature phase of "Love" like deep affection and feelings, but love nonetheless). The spouses are not really in love but rather it is a million other reasons to keep the marriage such as: fear of being alone, social status, society approval, financial security, fear of change, stay together for the children etc. Also, many of us I think would agree - the Sexless Marriage issue after really analyzing and soul searching the Marriage is just a mere system of bigger problems in the Marriage. And all this dysfunction and toxicity which one finds upon analysis (resentment, control issues, fear based living, people pleasing, etc.) ends up killing whatever Love there ever was in the Marriage and once it is dead it is gone for good. In other words, Love cannot be fabricated or reproduced once it is dead in the relationship. Thoughts please? I think there is a critical 3rd element to your theory. That being that BOTH spouses have the *capability* to make the necessary changes. If one of the spouses does not have the *capability* of making the necessary changes - then with all the goodwill in the world, it can't work. So this theory hinges on - - - #1 - You loving the spouse (NOT being traumatically bonded or co-dependent) #2 - The spouse loving you (NOT being traumatically bonded or co-dependent) #3 - The spouses having the CAPABILITY of doing the necessary work (NOT just "the will" to give it a go) And unfortunately, there are very very few stories in here where the necessary pre-requisites in BOTH parties seem to be evident. Puts me in mind of the old 1996 Ford wagon I had for years. Had I taken it to a mechanic and given him the brief "fix this car so it goes like a NASCAR" he'd say, "forget it". But if I went in and asked him to get it running and looking as good as a 1996 Ford wagon could, that would be achievable (if I was prepared to foot the bill). What's that Dirty Harry quote ? - something along the lines - "a man gots to know his limitations" - or words to that effect. |
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