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Post by Chatter Fox on Feb 24, 2017 20:19:41 GMT -5
So, has your attitude about love or the opposite sex been terribly damaged from being in a SM? I've always been a hopeless romantic at heart and an idealist but my marriage really made me fall from the clouds and hit the hard cold ground of reality with a solid thud. Kind of like Wile E Coyote with the trademark puff of dust on impact. It's kind of sad but I'm just not sure I can fully trust again. My ideals on love are just so terribly shaken. I want to believe so badly that 2 people can care and love for each other without needing to be coerced to treat each other right. Somehow though, it just feels like a sad exchange of needs. Almost like a shallow form of currency exchange. I've always wanted to make my partner happy just because I liked to know that I made her happy. I just wanted the same treatment back. Is that an unrealistic expectation or is this just my SM mind fuck speaking? Anymore, I have the attitude of "what's in it for me" when I give of myself. I haven't given unconditionally in years. Is this just the cold hard facts of life? Is this just the man behind the curtain of love? Am I just seeing love in all if it's greedy and selfish ways? Did I really do things for her unconditionally all those years? Was there actually an underlying expectation of reciprocity that was not even on my own radar? If so, does that make me a bad person? Am I any better than her if I gave with somewhat indirect and unspoken strings attached? Am I even worse since I was always somewhat indirect about my own needs? *sigh* just having a night I guess. *takes another swig of wine* Beeman, hopefully this mood has passed and you're back to feeling optimistic again. I can totally relate to what you're saying though. Maybe it's an INFP trait - hopeless romanticism? I definitely, without a doubt, 100% still believe in true, enduring love. But that's different from the romantic love that always fades and causes all of Hollywood to divorce in a matter of a few years (or at best, several). In order to be enduring, romantic love has to evolve into companionate love (dredge out your psych books from college - it's in there). Companionate does NOT mean sexlessness. There has to be a deep, unconditional, giving nature to that love. Both partners have to be willing to WORK at it, to give even at times when they are not receiving. But not endlessly! It doesn't mean that you should give for years while receiving nothing in return. At some point, you have to get something in return. That was the long answer for this short one: I still have faith in men (they are not all like my refuser). I still believe in love. And, yes, a healthy, peaceful (mostly happy) long-term marriage is absolutely possible.
Never lose hope, my friend. Hope is the last thing that is lost. Yes, the mood has passed.  thanks for asking. I definitely think that hopeless romanticism is an INFP trait. It certainly rings true for me at least. I suppose for me, I struggle to trust myself when it comes to what I believe can truly be. I'm a dreamer at heart and I like to believe that dreams come true. As I've aged though, I've realized that reality can often fall very short of dreams. I've made my peace with that.... mostly. There's still a part of me that wonders where that true line is between dream and reality. It's tough too when it takes so much risk to roll the dice to find out if something closer to dreams can exist in my reality. Anyway, I'm rambling. Point is, I agree with everything you said. Thanks for the uplifting reply and for helping me with realizing that something much closer to dreams is very much possible. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2017 0:08:25 GMT -5
I have realized that I must be unique. I believe in love, love that means that I would be loyal and faithful no matter what. Love that I would die for my wife. And yes, I would die for my wife, because that is what marriage means to me.
I am not selfish like everyone else.
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Post by McRoomMate on Feb 25, 2017 0:35:58 GMT -5
I still love. My experience with my wife contains nothing that I would generalize to "women". Most dysfunctional marriages end up dealing different cards out, in different combinations, from the same deck. As for marriage... that's different. I no longer view the institution of marriage as bringing anything to the table. I didn't get married to lose love and become divorced. Being married offered no protection from the dissolution and lack of mutual investment in the relationship. I got married at 30, when we were established and smart enough to know what we were doing. It didn't protect me from anything - no happily ever after, except while I naively believed in the fantasy. Well said both on Love and Marriage. "Being married offered no protection from the dissolution and lack of mutual investment in the relationship" Yes - using this logical approach - why the Heck bother getting married in the first place? |
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Post by shamwow on Feb 25, 2017 14:15:17 GMT -5
I have realized that I must be unique. I believe in love, love that means that I would be loyal and faithful no matter what. Love that I would die for my wife. And yes, I would die for my wife, because that is what marriage means to me. I am not selfish like everyone else. Like everyone else (raised eyebrow)? At least you've got that humility thing nailed (wink). |
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Post by Apocrypha on Feb 27, 2017 13:02:49 GMT -5
I have realized that I must be unique. I believe in love, love that means that I would be loyal and faithful no matter what. Love that I would die for my wife. And yes, I would die for my wife, because that is what marriage means to me. I am not selfish like everyone else. Really? Suppose she said or did something unspeakably cruel to someone - maybe to you, or to someone you love? Suppose you find out something about her or her past that literally changes everything you thought she was capable of? Suppose you discover or she reveals something to you that is so explosive that it changes the person she appears to be, in your eyes, such that you pray for the moment of an hour ago where you didn't know that one thing, because the person you loved is gone, and instead this stranger is standing there in front of you, wearing her face. Imagine the person before you - by your own standards, you discover, isn't actually worthy of your "dying" for her - and worked extra hard to ensure that you know that. That's how I felt, when that situation arose with me, and how it is posed to so many. I recall mourning the death of whatever I thought before, and instead facing the task of getting to know this other person who was capable of that. And I still managed to claw my way back to love, still loyal, when she was not. Imagine someone like that telling you she loves you, while treating you with such disgraceful contempt - and not returning your loyalty or faith. Even after. Nor, showing you love. Ya, you are about as unique as everyone who finds themselves in the before, instead of the minute - the second - they cross into the after. It's a terrible thing to lose love - to lose a loved one. People who haven't, think they know what it is like. Of course you would die for the person you love, the person who you think she is. That's what everyone thinks, @lostsoul. Not so unique. The problem is what happens when she reveals herself to be someone else. |
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Post by bballgirl on Feb 27, 2017 13:23:57 GMT -5
I have realized that I must be unique. I believe in love, love that means that I would be loyal and faithful no matter what. Love that I would die for my wife. And yes, I would die for my wife, because that is what marriage means to me. I am not selfish like everyone else. Really? Suppose she said or did something unspeakably cruel to someone - maybe to you, or to someone you love? Suppose you find out something about her or her past that literally changes everything you thought she was capable of? Suppose you discover or she reveals something to you that is so explosive that it changes the person she appears to be, in your eyes, such that you pray for the moment of an hour ago where you didn't know that one thing, because the person you loved is gone, and instead this stranger is standing there in front of you, wearing her face. Imagine the person before you - by your own standards, you discover, isn't actually worthy of your "dying" for her - and worked extra hard to ensure that you know that. That's how I felt, when that situation arose with me, and how it is posed to so many. I recall mourning the death of whatever I thought before, and instead facing the task of getting to know this other person who was capable of that. And I still managed to claw my way back to love, still loyal, when she was not. Imagine someone like that telling you she loves you, while treating you with such disgraceful contempt - and not returning your loyalty or faith. Even after. Nor, showing you love. Ya, you are about as unique as everyone who finds themselves in the before, instead of the minute - the second - they cross into the after. It's a terrible thing to lose love - to lose a loved one. People who haven't, think they know what it is like. Of course you would die for the person you love, the person who you think she is. That's what everyone thinks, @lostsoul. Not so unique. The problem is what happens when she reveals herself to be someone else. And sometimes their selfishness and misconduct is revealed but we are in a fog and too blind too see through the manipulation. |
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Post by McRoomMate on Feb 27, 2017 13:42:27 GMT -5
I have realized that I must be unique. I believe in love, love that means that I would be loyal and faithful no matter what. Love that I would die for my wife. And yes, I would die for my wife, because that is what marriage means to me. I am not selfish like everyone else. So the Love for your Wife is "UNCONDITIONAL" - nothing she says or do would change that? In my experience: LOVE is 1) FREE and can never be bought (everything and I mean EVERYTHING else in the Universe can be bought but not Love). A rich man with lots of money can buy all kinds of women to do all kinds of things but never can buy their heart. 2) POWERFUL The Most Powerful Force in the Human Heart - when two people truly love each other - they will do anything and great lengths to prove their love. 3) FRAGILE - very very fragile - if the two persons do not both contribute and nurture their Love it will die just like a flower because the Love H and W share is living and is either growing or withering. I wish you well. Respect. |
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Post by unmatched on Feb 27, 2017 18:37:29 GMT -5
I have realized that I must be unique. I believe in love, love that means that I would be loyal and faithful no matter what. Love that I would die for my wife. And yes, I would die for my wife, because that is what marriage means to me. I am not selfish like everyone else. I think as I look at it the measure of a marriage is not so much whether you are willing to die for someone, it is whether you are willing to live. Are you both willing to be fully alive and present and to share that life with the person next to you? That seems a much better measure of selflessness to me. |
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Post by dinnaken on Mar 2, 2017 16:28:50 GMT -5
My two-penneth, in response to Beeman's vital questions.
I don't know about terribly damaged but I've certainly been left badly bashed about.
Marriage - that's the easy one - I'm with Lyn on this - Meh. I know people say "Never say never" but I have absolutely NO desire to be married again - ever.
The opposite sex - my attitude remains unchanged - gorgeous. What has changed is my appreciation that we/they are all just people trying to make our ways in the world as best we can; I am much less judgemental but much more wary and certainly more tuned in to behaviours and attitudes. My trust has has been badly damaged and I'm not sure that I could ever give of myself as freely ever again but only time will tell on that.
Love - Yes, I know I can fall in love because out of the blue, completely un-looked for, I fell for someone in my late forties. It had to remain unrequited because neither of us 'did' adultery. The shock of that, the impact it had on me took me years to get over and I'm not sure I could ever go through that again.
But y'never know...
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Post by hopingforachange on Mar 2, 2017 16:48:17 GMT -5
And notice I said "yet". I have no doubt I'll be pissing at double speed one of these days while a bull charges at me. It's a good job I've perfected the "power piss". It's what they teach you in mum school. No leisurely urination time once kids are on the scene. I also developed an asbestos mouth for swift brew glugging. liquid intake and outlet must be performed at top speed when children are loose! I doubt with children around you ever piss alone. Everyone will be in the bathroom with you. I gave been home allot lately with the sick kids. I have resorted to peeing sitting down because the 2 year old follows me in and tries to touch the stream. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2017 17:57:46 GMT -5
I haven't given up any of my ideas about love. I think it is very real and with the right partner it can be truly fulfilling in all respects.
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Post by randy53 on Mar 3, 2017 18:11:41 GMT -5
So, has your attitude about love or the opposite sex been terribly damaged from being in a SM? I've always been a hopeless romantic at heart and an idealist but my marriage really made me fall from the clouds and hit the hard cold ground of reality with a solid thud. Kind of like Wile E Coyote with the trademark puff of dust on impact. It's kind of sad but I'm just not sure I can fully trust again. My ideals on love are just so terribly shaken. I want to believe so badly that 2 people can care and love for each other without needing to be coerced to treat each other right. Somehow though, it just feels like a sad exchange of needs. Almost like a shallow form of currency exchange. I've always wanted to make my partner happy just because I liked to know that I made her happy. I just wanted the same treatment back. Is that an unrealistic expectation or is this just my SM mind fuck speaking? Anymore, I have the attitude of "what's in it for me" when I give of myself. I haven't given unconditionally in years. Is this just the cold hard facts of life? Is this just the man behind the curtain of love? Am I just seeing love in all if it's greedy and selfish ways? Did I really do things for her unconditionally all those years? Was there actually an underlying expectation of reciprocity that was not even on my own radar? If so, does that make me a bad person? Am I any better than her if I gave with somewhat indirect and unspoken strings attached? Am I even worse since I was always somewhat indirect about my own needs? *sigh* just having a night I guess. *takes another swig of wine* I do trust women less. I will never get married again. Fool me once.... |
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Post by eternaloptimism on Mar 4, 2017 8:24:55 GMT -5
So, has your attitude about love or the opposite sex been terribly damaged from being in a SM? I've always been a hopeless romantic at heart and an idealist but my marriage really made me fall from the clouds and hit the hard cold ground of reality with a solid thud. Kind of like Wile E Coyote with the trademark puff of dust on impact. It's kind of sad but I'm just not sure I can fully trust again. My ideals on love are just so terribly shaken. I want to believe so badly that 2 people can care and love for each other without needing to be coerced to treat each other right. Somehow though, it just feels like a sad exchange of needs. Almost like a shallow form of currency exchange. I've always wanted to make my partner happy just because I liked to know that I made her happy. I just wanted the same treatment back. Is that an unrealistic expectation or is this just my SM mind fuck speaking? Anymore, I have the attitude of "what's in it for me" when I give of myself. I haven't given unconditionally in years. Is this just the cold hard facts of life? Is this just the man behind the curtain of love? Am I just seeing love in all if it's greedy and selfish ways? Did I really do things for her unconditionally all those years? Was there actually an underlying expectation of reciprocity that was not even on my own radar? If so, does that make me a bad person? Am I any better than her if I gave with somewhat indirect and unspoken strings attached? Am I even worse since I was always somewhat indirect about my own needs? *sigh* just having a night I guess. *takes another swig of wine* I do trust women less. I will never get married again. Fool me once.... Just as an aside... we are not married. Still entangled in the same mess though! Not sure I even believe in marriage any more so I can pretty much guarantee I won't be walking down the aisle in the foreseeable future! |
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thanks for asking. I definitely think that hopeless romanticism is an INFP trait. It certainly rings true for me at least. I suppose for me, I struggle to trust myself when it comes to what I believe can truly be. I'm a dreamer at heart and I like to believe that dreams come true. As I've aged though, I've realized that reality can often fall very short of dreams. I've made my peace with that.... mostly. There's still a part of me that wonders where that true line is between dream and reality. It's tough too when it takes so much risk to roll the dice to find out if something closer to dreams can exist in my reality.
