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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2017 20:28:35 GMT -5
My problem would be this: I don't think I could mess around with a guy, if I was on friendly terms with his wife. I would prefer the kind of outsourcing where the other party doesn't even know me.
Outsourcing happens; and I consider it a viable option. That said - it is full of risks (physical and emotional) - so IMHO you need to use a lot of common sense and practical thinking in order to do it well.
And sometimes, common sense and practical thinking have a way of ruining the joy.
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Post by shamwow on Feb 20, 2017 21:05:44 GMT -5
"Wife swapping" - In theory, sounds like a hell of a lot of fun - but, I think most, if not all, of us are on the same page. A swap would just be getting laid. Who needs to bother with swapping spouses? If that's all we want, just get on tinder, go to the local bar. A willing partner is a shot or two of Jack Daniels away. The more I tear myself away from my own sm, and learn about all of the wonderful, yet refused human's in this forum, the more it's obvious that "The Lack" in the relationship is the intimacy. We all know, the sex (sigh....), is the wonderful by-product of true intimacy. If one isn't ready, or able, to leave a sm - by all means OUT SOURCE if it will actually be beneficial for you, and ADD to your life - watch this part closely. If one IS ready and IS able to leave a sm - by all means get the fuck out and go HAVE A LIFE! Each and everyone of us is a wonderfully unique person with so much to offer. Being in a sm for any length of time buries our ability to see the amazing qualities within ourselves. This lack of insight that is the direct result of the longterm sexual repression is the absolute WORST part of this whole sham. That being said, these amazing qualities are still there - just waiting for the warden to unlock them. We have the keys - we're our own Warden. Very keen insight, Lyn. The bonds we form with others is much more important than the pain of our present circumstances. |
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Post by snowman12345 on Feb 20, 2017 21:51:30 GMT -5
My problem would be this: I don't think I could mess around with a guy, if I was on friendly terms with his wife. I would prefer the kind of outsourcing where the other party doesn't even know me. Outsourcing happens; and I consider it a viable option. That said - it is full of risks (physical and emotional) - so IMHO you need to use a lot of common sense and practical thinking in order to do it well. And sometimes, common sense and practical thinking have a way of ruining the joy. Yeah, it's not a thing you can be sloppy with. But going through the steps to get to the "meeting" can be the best anticipation builder! |
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Post by lyn on Feb 20, 2017 22:21:47 GMT -5
"Wife swapping" - In theory, sounds like a hell of a lot of fun - but, I think most, if not all, of us are on the same page. A swap would just be getting laid. Who needs to bother with swapping spouses? If that's all we want, just get on tinder, go to the local bar. A willing partner is a shot or two of Jack Daniels away. The more I tear myself away from my own sm, and learn about all of the wonderful, yet refused human's in this forum, the more it's obvious that "The Lack" in the relationship is the intimacy. We all know, the sex (sigh....), is the wonderful by-product of true intimacy. If one isn't ready, or able, to leave a sm - by all means OUT SOURCE if it will actually be beneficial for you, and ADD to your life - watch this part closely. If one IS ready and IS able to leave a sm - by all means get the fuck out and go HAVE A LIFE! Each and everyone of us is a wonderfully unique person with so much to offer. Being in a sm for any length of time buries our ability to see the amazing qualities within ourselves. This lack of insight that is the direct result of the longterm sexual repression is the absolute WORST part of this whole sham. That being said, these amazing qualities are still there - just waiting for the warden to unlock them. We have the keys - we're our own Warden. Beautifully put. Loved reading your post. Here is something EERIE - in my first marriage (the one with a crazy psychotic wife that ended up in mental hospitals), I used to have a recurring PRISON DREAM where I would wonder around a prison and try to see if I could escape and then at the end of the dream a prison guard would come up to me and say "Hey Look the door is open, you can leave whenever you want." Now . . . the dream is back. - oh that is eerie! I'm not sure exactly where I am with dream analysis, but this dream scenario seemed to be telling you something huh? I wonder how many of us have had the "teeth falling out in your mouth" dream........... I used to have this one a lot. My cousin, who analyzes dreams for a living said something about it meaning one feels sorely repressed, unable to express themselves. Hmm - bet this prison dream is similar maybe. |
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Post by rejected101 on Feb 21, 2017 3:30:49 GMT -5
If my H would have had sex with me once or twice a month I would have felt loved and I would not have wanted a divorce. I can't say outsourcing would not have eventually happened. However once or twice a year is unacceptable. Agreed. Twice a year or similar and I know I would be gone 100%. The issue I am trying to contend with though is that my wife will typically want to fuck me (and I definitely mean want) around once a month and typically won't want to offer much more. She has made a bit of an effort over the last 12 - 18 months to improve which is why I don't consider divorce right now. I have however developed a feeling of being her cock that she wants to get off on when she fancies getting off. If I demand more effort and more frequency, no doubt she will feel like she is my pussy that I want to enter when I see fit. The choice becomes ask for more and risk her feeling pressured or simply don't ask and she has her cake and eats it. It's such a complex situation. |
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Post by bballgirl on Feb 21, 2017 8:02:44 GMT -5
If my H would have had sex with me once or twice a month I would have felt loved and I would not have wanted a divorce. I can't say outsourcing would not have eventually happened. However once or twice a year is unacceptable. Agreed. Twice a year or similar and I know I would be gone 100%. The issue I am trying to contend with though is that my wife will typically want to fuck me (and I definitely mean want) around once a month and typically won't want to offer much more. She has made a bit of an effort over the last 12 - 18 months to improve which is why I don't consider divorce right now. I have however developed a feeling of being her cock that she wants to get off on when she fancies getting off. If I demand more effort and more frequency, no doubt she will feel like she is my pussy that I want to enter when I see fit. The choice becomes ask for more and risk her feeling pressured or simply don't ask and she has her cake and eats it. It's such a complex situation. "Have her cake and eat it too" - that is a nice way of saying a person is selfish. Why would we enable a person to be selfish? As far as pressure to have sex? Why not? First of all the libido is just a biological thing and she should be happy you desire to share the benefits of your libido with her. If she's not careful that could change. My AP and I text each other all the time asking if the other is horny even if we can't see each other. I understand she doesn't have a high libido but my point is the same way she jumps you when she is in the mood, there's nothing wrong with you putting a little pressure on her to take care of your needs at least once a week. |
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Post by Dan on Feb 21, 2017 8:57:03 GMT -5
Now that I am remarried and in love the thought of an affair makes me physically ill. Not sure how I would handle that one now - karma out to get me for my own wrong-doings? I was the other woman. Right now I want women to respect my vows and commitment to my husband and back off, but I didn't -- can I really ask that of others? I trust and know my husband to be a one-woman man, faithful and loyal and very vocal about that to others (especially women, he won't go out after work if it's just the gals and I am not there) but, I can't live like it could never happen because it could. I don't want to get naive and I have to believe I would pick myself up, move on from dysfunction and be okay. But, I do hope I am not actually tested. My 2¢ on this: please don't beat yourself up... using phrases like "wrong-doings" and "other woman". You were in a position to choose from a small pool of less than ideal choices. (The same ones that we all here have.) IMO, if you were honest with your AP (didn't string HIM along), then you acted fairly. (His relationship with his wife and how he treated her is NOT on you.) You get extra points for even tipping your hand and cluing in your STBX. Maybe this was a "tough choice", but please do not feel that this was a "bad choice". Please do not fret that this will somehow karmicly haunt you or your H now. It sounds like you have a wonderful relationship now. Keep the lines of communication open; keep the intimacy flowing. THAT is what will inoculate your current marriage from any more wandering. |
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Post by Dan on Feb 21, 2017 9:03:40 GMT -5
"Wife swapping" - In theory, sounds like a hell of a lot of fun - but, I think most, if not all, of us are on the same page. A swap would just be getting laid. Who needs to bother with swapping spouses? If that's all we want, just get on tinder, go to the local bar. A willing partner is a shot or two of Jack Daniels away. I'd say wife swapping is NOT for those in stressed/sexless marriages. If there is not enough communication to work out sexual issues in the marriage, how is it going to get better with other people sexually involved? My thinking is that wife swapping -- or more generally "swinging" or "lifestyle activities" -- is really for a sexually adventurous couple who both are SO sexual that they want to experience new things sexually, and the BOTH are interested in swapping, foursomes, and/or other group sex situations. I'll tip my hat to anyone that adventurous who managed to marry someone equally adventurous. Sounds like that DOESN'T include those of us still in an SM! |
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Post by WindSister on Feb 21, 2017 10:03:01 GMT -5
Now that I am remarried and in love the thought of an affair makes me physically ill. Not sure how I would handle that one now - karma out to get me for my own wrong-doings? I was the other woman. Right now I want women to respect my vows and commitment to my husband and back off, but I didn't -- can I really ask that of others? I trust and know my husband to be a one-woman man, faithful and loyal and very vocal about that to others (especially women, he won't go out after work if it's just the gals and I am not there) but, I can't live like it could never happen because it could. I don't want to get naive and I have to believe I would pick myself up, move on from dysfunction and be okay. But, I do hope I am not actually tested. My 2¢ on this: please don't beat yourself up... using phrases like "wrong-doings" and "other woman". You were in a position to choose from a small pool of less than ideal choices. (The same ones that we all here have.) IMO, if you were honest with your AP (didn't string HIM along), then you acted fairly. (His relationship with his wife and how he treated her is NOT on you.) You get extra points for even tipping your hand and cluing in your STBX. Maybe this was a "tough choice", but please do not feel that this was a "bad choice". Please do not fret that this will somehow karmicly haunt you or your H now. It sounds like you have a wonderful relationship now. Keep the lines of communication open; keep the intimacy flowing. THAT is what will inoculate your current marriage from any more wandering. Thanks for that.  I promise I don't beat myself up TOO much. My husband now knows all about those choices I made. The version I told him is a highly edited version because if I talk too much about it all he gets angry towards my ex (especially) but also every guy I have been with even though I don't paint myself as a victim in the re-telling of the events. He is just very old-fashioned (but still very sexual) and very protective. He thinks the men I have been with used me, but truth is, I used them too, so the "using" cancels out - it was consensual. I was very much making my own choices and I don't regret any of it because I truly lived and also learned a lot. I guess my guilt comes in for the AP's wife but honestly I know he was trying to work on their intimacy as well. He said he would never leave her. I knew I wouldn't have wanted a LTR with him anyway. It went on for about a year even as I was out there dating. He helped me heal, honestly -- and he made me realize that I was desirable after feeling so rejected. I haven't talked to him in 4 years, deleted/blocked him too, (after saying goodbye -- that goodbye was a bit more emotional) but in my heart I hope he found happiness with life. Life isn't black and white - all kinds of swirls of gray. What others judge can't be judged because they can't see what is in a person's heart. I do believe that. I just sometimes feel like a hypocrite now that I truly BELIEVE in marriage and the commitment/covenant. But, it takes two believing that and working it or it's all a fairy tale, or worse - a facade. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2017 10:54:56 GMT -5
Life isn't black and white - all kinds of swirls of gray. What others judge can't be judged because they can't see what is in a person's heart. I do believe that. I just sometimes feel like a hypocrite now that I truly BELIEVE in marriage and the commitment/covenant. But, it takes two believing that and working it or it's all a fairy tale, or worse - a facade. This is very profound. The truth is that sexual refusal in marriage is a betrayal. It makes a normal person doubt his/her value and worth as a human being. You feel you are drowning in sorrow. And sometimes you will grab onto anything that will pull you out of that sorrow, even if it is for a second. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2017 11:01:27 GMT -5
But in getting back to the original point of this thread, I have often wished that it was socially acceptable for mismatched libido spouses to be able to find each other. However, the LL spouses would never go for it.
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Post by LITW on Feb 21, 2017 11:36:21 GMT -5
A few months ago, when a couple from church was throwing a party for all the married couples in our age bracket, my wife cracked a joke about it being a spouse-swapping party, then guessed who my choice would've been if that was actually the case. ...and guessed completely wrong on who I would've chosen. I remember thinking, "huh, that explains a lot." I think my wife would probably be able to guess who I would choose, which is I am sure one of the reasons she would never make a joke like that. About church friends .... as open and accepting as my church is, mentioning issues of sex is still something that feels super uncomfortable. I have been tempted to mention my sexual struggles in my small group (all men) but it just feel wrong to mention it. I know thats crazy. Last fall when I went on a men's retreat, the subject did come up while one of the pastors was talking about loving our wives. He mentioned this one time where it has been a whole week since he last had sex with his wife ... and he was immediately met with a chorus of "boos" and disgusted laughter. Based on that, I am guessing that sexlessness is a big problem in my church, but nobody wants to talk about it. |
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Post by WindSister on Feb 21, 2017 11:40:27 GMT -5
But in getting back to the original point of this thread, I have often wished that it was socially acceptable for mismatched libido spouses to be able to find each other. However, the LL spouses would never go for it. That gets tricky because it's not always the simple case of mis-matched libido. Is it? My ex sure was interested in sex/porn (and was even on that sex dating site where he met his new woman) but he just wasn't with ME. That's when it's just a facade, a lie and dysfunctional. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2017 11:44:31 GMT -5
Based on that, I am guessing that sexlessness is a big problem in my church, but nobody wants to talk about it. I suspect it is a big problem in every church, and no one will talk about it. Which is why I need to get busy on my book. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2017 11:46:01 GMT -5
But in getting back to the original point of this thread, I have often wished that it was socially acceptable for mismatched libido spouses to be able to find each other. However, the LL spouses would never go for it. That gets tricky because it's not always the simple case of mis-matched libido. Is it? My ex sure was interested in sex/porn (and was even on that sex dating site where he met his new woman) but he just wasn't with ME. That's when it's just a facade, a lie and dysfunctional. No, it is not. For a long time, I thought that it would be a tragedy if I divorced my refuser, and I missed out on it when her sex drive kicked in. After 28 years, I got tired of waiting. Has anyone ever told you that you have very kind eyes? |
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I promise I don't beat myself up TOO much. My husband now knows all about those choices I made. The version I told him is a highly edited version because if I talk too much about it all he gets angry towards my ex (especially) but also every guy I have been with even though I don't paint myself as a victim in the re-telling of the events. He is just very old-fashioned (but still very sexual) and very protective. He thinks the men I have been with used me, but truth is, I used them too, so the "using" cancels out - it was consensual. I was very much making my own choices and I don't regret any of it because I truly lived and also learned a lot. I guess my guilt comes in for the AP's wife but honestly I know he was trying to work on their intimacy as well. He said he would never leave her. I knew I wouldn't have wanted a LTR with him anyway. It went on for about a year even as I was out there dating. He helped me heal, honestly -- and he made me realize that I was desirable after feeling so rejected. I haven't talked to him in 4 years, deleted/blocked him too, (after saying goodbye -- that goodbye was a bit more emotional) but in my heart I hope he found happiness with life. 
