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Isabellas39
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I need advice Feb 14, 2017 19:31:59 GMT -5 jim44444, greatcoastal, and 1 more like this

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Post by Isabellas39 on Feb 14, 2017 19:31:59 GMT -5

Feb 13, 2017 19:10:14 GMT -5 @elle said:

Isabellas39 , you've gotten some great advice so I won't add to that, but I did want to weigh in on the pastor who watches porn. I call BS on that one. Either, he is a terrible pastor with little to no relationship with God or he is no pastor at all. From what I have seen, the church comes down on porn. It ruins relationships. Ruins men (maybe some women too) for sexual relationships with real people. That might e seen as a bit hard line here (I don't judge folks who like their porn), but I do think any church worth its salt would say no to it. I'm surprised he'd ad mit that he was a pastor that's why I suspect he's lying about that. If he's a pastor, he'd be ashamed to admit that.

And second, I agree with greatcoastal, value yourself first in all of these relationships. You are to be cherished and respected. If someone doesn't seem to be offering that, run quickly. It may be that you can't get the respect you deserve in one of these outsourcing gigs. Just consider it.

And don't forget your exit plan! I hope you can make one this year!

He is a pastor, and he didn't really reveal that part. I did do a little googling and found out then asked him about it. I do believe that we all find ways to escape our SM's, and it doesn't matter our profession. That was revealed when they hacked Ashley Madison. I think being a pastor does add an extra layer to the deception, but I really can't judge because I am also deceiving. I was very shocked to learn about the showering together part, and how often he watched porn and masturbated. However, based on some responses I've learned that not all marriages with intimacy issues involves a partner that hides their body.

I am definitely working on that exit plan !

Last Edit: Feb 14, 2017 19:51:35 GMT -5 by Isabellas39

worksforme2
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I need advice Feb 14, 2017 19:37:07 GMT -5 Dan, Isabellas39, and 1 more like this

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Post by worksforme2 on Feb 14, 2017 19:37:07 GMT -5

A # of males have already weighed in so maybe this might be relevant, although it really is a bit dated.
A couple months back someone ask about where to look for a FWB or outsourcing prospects. This is an expanded version of what I replied to him.
When I was in my mid to late 20's I had about 8 or 9 married couples as close friends. Most of the males were former high school friends that I graduated with. Most of the women I had come to know well and had developed very good and easy friendships. 2 of the ladies I had known from school. Over the course of probably 8 yrs. I had sex with half the women. Believe it or not they all basically initiated the sex. As one would expect we had a lot of conversation before, during and after the sex. Out of curiosity I ask each of them why they chosen me as I didn't consider myself to be any Adonis or really smooth at seduction. I did have a pretty good body as I played sports in H.S. and college. The replies were basically the same. Because they knew me really well, liked me and trusted me. And I was funny. I had always treated them as equals and showed them respect. I also never tried to seduce or come on to them as other males did. My good manors didn't hurt me either.It intrigued them that I seemed indifferent to their obvious good looks and feminine appeal. Basically I was an enigma or riddle to be solved and at the same time a challenge to them to work their feminine wiles. But it was the friendship and time spent together that eventually led to the bedroom.
Fast forward to today. I have been divorced now for 20 months. I have dated a # of women but only taken 1 to bed. From my experience most serious women want to meet fairly quickly. One or 2 weeks at most by way of emails or phone conversations. More than that and I know they aren't serious or their hiding something. The meetup will tell you if there is any chemistry. If so there follows some dating to really see if there is some potential for romance or if it's probably not going anywhere. I've seen the results of a couple of dating site surveys and the general consensus is sex after 3 or 4 dates. That seems to be enough time to establish the trust needed for the sex to happen.
I don't know if any of this was helpful as part 1 was ancient history and part 2 is based on the experience of a divorced male dating divorced females. As for the confidence I think bballgirl would just tell you things really haven't changed all that much since you were in school as far male/female expectations. Sex is a lot like friendship, it really is about liking each other and being compatible.

Isabellas39
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I need advice Feb 14, 2017 19:49:53 GMT -5 bballgirl and leifericson like this

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Post by Isabellas39 on Feb 14, 2017 19:49:53 GMT -5

Feb 12, 2017 16:42:58 GMT -5 bballgirl said:

Feb 11, 2017 20:31:13 GMT -5 Isabellas39 said:

I am honestly typing this at a very bad time because today I feel like a raging lunatic. Please forgive me if I don't respond to all comments, sometimes just reading them is enough to help me get back on track. I am so very frustrated right now, and I honestly don't know why. Maybe it's because Valentine's Day is around the corner and that pisses me off a bit? Maybe it's because I would like to actually have a partner I can share a few romantic moments with ? Heck, I hope this is the right section for this topic.

I wanted to know from those that are outsourcing, or dating what are some red flags you look for? Ladies, would you outsource with a pastor who confessed to masturbating and watching porn three times a week ( I didn't know he was a pastor when we first started chatting lol) ? Of course he says his wife rejects his advances most times, and then says that they shower almost every day together. Isn't that intimate ? Why is it that I have a hard time believing a refuser would get naked in the shower with her spouse ?

I have such a hard time figuring out outsourcing. I have done it before, but trust was so hard and it still is. How do you overcome that ? How long do you talk to someone before meeting ? Do you then wait a few months before intimacy ? I just want to have a general idea about what is expected . Bball, how do I get some of your confidence ?

Thanks all in advance

Isabella, I'm a little late seeing your post and I understand how you are a little emotional around Valentine's Day. It's one day and it will pass but I get it.
As far as the pastor, I agree with baza if all you want is just some sex then he can get a tryout but if he doesn't rock your world then once is enough.
As far as the pastor viewing porn, that doesn't bother me as much as the take a shower everyday together - that's weird!! Something with this makes him seem like he's lying so that would make me question fucking him. However, Are you attracted to him? Do YOU want to fuck him? Are you curious about his skills? If so go for it! Try him out! I don't see sex as such a sacred thing anymore so if I want to have sex with someone then I do.

To answer your questions:

I have such a hard time figuring out outsourcing. I have done it before, but trust was so hard and it still is. How do you overcome that ?
At first I don't trust anyone. If I met a man I made them give me their full name and a picture of their car tag, or if I met them in public I would get there early and once they got out of the car I texted their tag to someone I know that's a cop and knew I was outsourcing. The good news most people aren't crazy killers. However different people outsource for different reasons. One man I had sex with one time while I was married, he had sex with his wife 2 or 3 times a month but very vanilla. So I had sex with him the one time and found him to be very vanilla.

How long do you talk to someone before meeting ?
I want to meet them within a week or two. Why keep talking and chatting if it's not going to go anywhere. I meet somewhere public for a cup of coffee. If I'm attracted to them then I'll kiss them. With my FWB, we made out in his car and I came 4 times.
Do you then wait a few months before intimacy ?
For outsourcing, a FWB - absolutely not. The purpose of the relationship is sex.
I just want to have a general idea about what is expected . Bball, how do I get some of your confidence ?
Honey you have no reason NOT to be confident. You are so beautiful!
I could remember my FWB when I first met him telling me to wear whatever made me feel sexy. I think that pov is a good one. Wear what you want for YOU! Do things that you want for YOU!
As far as my looks, my body, etc. - I have the attitude take it or leave it. Some men are attracted to a full figured woman and some men aren't.
It's no sweat off my back if a man isn't attracted to me, I prefer honesty and rejection up front from the start so I don't waste any more of my time on the wrong man. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I also see my self worth and I know what I have to offer a future relationship, so I won't settle.
With dating - lots of losers out there, at least on the dating apps.
Outsourcing - Just a fun thing and it helps with the self confidence.
Part of the self confidence is mind over matter. Look at yourself in the mirror and see yourself as beautiful and not give a crap what anyone else thinks.
If you want sex then have it! It might be great, it might suck, but if you don't try you will never know.

Thanks bball, I have always wondered what the standards are for meeting someone, and how long should one wait to meet. Men have different ideas of what an affair is, and I certainly agree that it should be fun and not an extra headache. I believe through conversation a person can reveal so much about themselves. He did not reveal all his truths right away, and he said he didn't want to feel judged. After I found out his profession I realized why he said that, and like most I was surprised by some of the revelations.

Rebuilding my self confidence is definitely a journey, and thank you for the pointers..

Dan
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I need advice Mar 3, 2017 8:34:59 GMT -5 Isabellas39, worksforme2, and 1 more like this

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Post by Dan on Mar 3, 2017 8:34:59 GMT -5

Feb 11, 2017 20:31:13 GMT -5 Isabellas39 said:

I wanted to know from those that are outsourcing, or dating what are some red flags you look for? ...

I have such a hard time figuring out outsourcing. I have done it before, but trust was so hard and it still is. How do you overcome that ? How long do you talk to someone before meeting ? Do you then wait a few months before intimacy ? I just want to have a general idea about what is expected . Bball, how do I get some of your confidence ?

Coming to this thread late, but wanted to share my thoughts.

YES: finding a compatible romantic partner is HARD. And harder still if one or both of you are outsourcing! I'm with obobfla : HONESTY is the key to finding someone "right" for your situation. Be HONEST about your situation, HONEST about what you are looking for... and expect HONESTY from them. How else can you trust them?

--

Frankly, I break the other way on the "masturbating pastor" story. He was honest about you with all this! OK, well, at least he was upfront. I mean, he didn't have to tell you the shower detail, or the porn detail, right? I think that is a sign he is trying to be on-the-level with you. Does he still have some opportunities with his wife? I don't think that disqualifies him as "weird" (sexually) or that the rest of his story in necessarily fishy. Look, I was still TRYING to make things work with my wife when I started outsourcing; there still was SOME (albeit minimal and lackluster) sexual contact. The fact that he knows his needs AND was not ashamed of them AND seemed to trust you enough to tell you this... IMO, that bodes well for a possible arrangement.

If you find him attractive (sexy brain, attractive body), then the only reason NOT to move forward is if you a) want different things (eg: he's into kinky stuff that you are not), or b) feel he is NOT being honest/upfront (eg: you have a hunch he sleeping with OTHER women). If your instincts tell you "I think he is being on-the-level with me"... then I don't smell anything fishy about this situation. Really.

Thought experiment: let me change the genders. Let me assume this was a married lady-pastor. (They do exist.) Just a question to the other men here: if you were looking for an outsourcing arrangement, and had decided to look for a married woman not wanting to leave her marriage yet (as I was)... then would her saying "I'm a pastor, I occasionally shower with my husband but that doesn't lead to sex, and when we do have sex it is so unsatisfying I still need to masturbate (sometimes to porn) three times a week" be a turn off or turn on? For me, I'd assess "HERE is a woman who has a sexual drive and is willing to seek what she craves. And she is being honest with me. Let's keep chatting, FOR SURE." And if there was mutual attraction, I'd propose we move forward.

---

Just know what you want. If you want to meet a married guy where you are both interested in something one-on-one, "NSA" and "FWB", great. If you want him to be 100% sexless in his marriage... OK, you can look for someone like that, too. If he is not "sufficiently sexless" for your conditions, fine, look for someone else.

I just think the combination of his current profession and that he occasionally wanks doesn't ipso facto disqualify him. Nothing fishy there to me. He sounds like a man in a marriage, trying to cope with some degree of HL/LL situation.

---

OK, how long to chat until you are comfortable with taking the next step? Easy to answer! Exactly as long as it takes to get comfortable with taking the next step. There is no timeline -- there is only that criteria: sufficient trust to take the next step.

Again -- FWIW -- this is just as true in non-outsourcing dating! Don't disclose too much too early. But don't be too timid either; holding too much back may appear as non-interest, and he move on. OK, if you must, err on the side of "too timid" the first times you try this. But YOU'LL LEARN to trust your inner voice on this.

Last Edit: Mar 4, 2017 9:40:44 GMT -5 by Dan

Dan
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I need advice Mar 3, 2017 8:45:48 GMT -5 Isabellas39 and worksforme2 like this

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Post by Dan on Mar 3, 2017 8:45:48 GMT -5

Feb 13, 2017 19:10:14 GMT -5 @elle said:

I'm not sure why folks here are holding a pastor to a higher standard then they hold other men. Pastors can find themselves in sexless marriages, too! And isn't adultery is "just as bad" if you are a teacher, housewife, engineer, or pastor? (At least, I don't immediately recall any scriptural basis for saying it's different.)

Many religious folks would probably rationalize "masturbation (with or without porn) is at least better than outsourcing"... at least there is no direct commandment against the first, right? (Not saying organized religion espouses the former... but I can see someone feeling it is "less bad". I do!)

I would much rather have a person of similar values as my outsourcing partner... and I'm family oriented, politically liberal, big-hearted, and a believer in God. I just met someone who is wanting sex and romance, and she's all that too? Bonus!

It comes down to TRUST: if you trust he is not using the same "sad-pastor story" to bed all of his lady parishioners... then why not give him a chance? If he wants a single, ongoing "side-relationship", and YOU want that, and you want to be with someone who wants that... what is the downside, again?

When I was outsourcing, THAT is what I wanted. And with time, patience, and luck, I found it. Several times.

Last Edit: Mar 3, 2017 11:44:21 GMT -5 by Dan

seabr33z3
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I need advice Mar 3, 2017 22:30:04 GMT -5 via mobile

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Post by seabr33z3 on Mar 3, 2017 22:30:04 GMT -5

Mar 3, 2017 8:45:48 GMT -5 Dan said:

Feb 13, 2017 19:10:14 GMT -5 @elle said:

Regarding other people holding Pastors to a higher standard, I think that a pastor puts HIMSELF in a position of a higher standard. What I mean is that in his role as Pastor ( Shepherd/leader/ example) more is expected of him. I don't think anyone( I hope) believes that a religious leader is any less vulnerable to fall into this type of scenario, but if he does, he should question if he is fit to hold office.
What I'm talking about is the level of interaction with other females on or offline. For me ( considering his role in life) there is a serious lack of integrity there.

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