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Post by shamwow on Feb 12, 2017 18:17:29 GMT -5
Perhaps you need to really examine what you are seeking Sister Isabellas39. Are you just after a fuck (ie FWB) ? Are you actually looking for a new primary relationship (ie a life partner) ? Are you looking for a bit of fun that might possibly develop into a new primary relationship (ie a possible life partner) ? See, if you are just after a fuck, this Pastor who twangs off 3 times a week to porn seems like as good a candidate as any, as long as he is good enough in bed for you. For that matter, he could be a closet satanist and it wouldn't matter. As long as he can deliver a high quality rogering to you, he meets the criteria to play a role as a FWB. If however you are looking for a life partner, then his proclivity for solo sex 3 times a week sends warning klaxons off everywhere that he would be a less than ideal life partner. Likewise it would make him totally unsuitable for the "bit of fun that might lead somewhere" scenario. Where that would lead - I think - is straight into the ditch. This bullshit about his co-showering but refusive missus lacks any credibility at all. Chances are that as well as a twang off artist, he is also a liar. Feeling for you Sister Isabellas, this dating caper is a minefield - and a subject I have no recent experience at (and a further disclaimer is that I was rotten at dating back in the day anyway). But essentially, I think that you need to define what you are looking for. Many people are appropriate to fuck, if all you want is a fuck. The Pastor for example. But if you are looking for a candidate with a view to a primary relationship, then the Pastor and his ilk effectively rule themselves out. And, of course there remains the inconvenient matter of ending the existing dysfunctional deal one is in before getting too deep into a new deal. I want someone that I can be friends with, and have intimacy . I am not expecting it to turn into a primary relationship, but I definitely want more than just sex. So outsourcing isn't for me, so perhaps I have no business replying to something I admittedly have no understanding of. But with that said  If I were a typical guy and found a woman in a marriage who wanted to outsource/cheat, the main thing we would have in common is the sex. I wouldn't want to talk about much else or be a shoulder to. Cry on. However, if you develop friendships with men first, then work your way into a sexual relationship, there might be a better chance since sex is not the foundation of the relationship. It is harder. But if you're looking for friendship and affection rather than just sex, it's the right way. It does seem a bit incomprehensible to me though to want that type of relationship while already in an SM. Talk about double the trouble. But I never thought I tell my wife I wanted a divorce either. This SM thing has taught me much that I never wanted to learn. |
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Post by baza on Feb 12, 2017 18:40:45 GMT -5
I guess this FWB scenario needs some clarification.
FWB = "Friend With Benefits"
Under which the sequence would have to be "friend" status first, then mebbe some rooting component to the deal later.
It probably is not going to work the other way around, ie where you go to rooting status first, then mebbe some friendship components later.
Take the masturbating Pastor as an example.
You have sounded him out well enough so far to establish that he is into solo sex 3 times a week.
You have also established that he claims he and his missus shower together all the time, but there is no sex. A highly questionable premise I'd suggest (unless he is some kind of skinflint who will do anything to save on his hot water bill)
So you 'know' the bloke well enough to establish whether you want to be "friends" with him.
And the sub text in your story suggests that you don't.
And, if he can't show you the appropriate pre-requisites to be a "Friend" then clearly that rules him out as a "Friend With Benefits".
I think here, you hand him back his resume and thank him for his application and advise him he is not the preferred candidate.
Then interview the next candidate.
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Post by greatcoastal on Feb 12, 2017 20:15:28 GMT -5
Perhaps you need to really examine what you are seeking Sister Isabellas39. Are you just after a fuck (ie FWB) ? Are you actually looking for a new primary relationship (ie a life partner) ? Are you looking for a bit of fun that might possibly develop into a new primary relationship (ie a possible life partner) ? See, if you are just after a fuck, this Pastor who twangs off 3 times a week to porn seems like as good a candidate as any, as long as he is good enough in bed for you. For that matter, he could be a closet satanist and it wouldn't matter. As long as he can deliver a high quality rogering to you, he meets the criteria to play a role as a FWB. If however you are looking for a life partner, then his proclivity for solo sex 3 times a week sends warning klaxons off everywhere that he would be a less than ideal life partner. Likewise it would make him totally unsuitable for the "bit of fun that might lead somewhere" scenario. Where that would lead - I think - is straight into the ditch. This bullshit about his co-showering but refusive missus lacks any credibility at all. Chances are that as well as a twang off artist, he is also a liar. Feeling for you Sister Isabellas, this dating caper is a minefield - and a subject I have no recent experience at (and a further disclaimer is that I was rotten at dating back in the day anyway). But essentially, I think that you need to define what you are looking for. Many people are appropriate to fuck, if all you want is a fuck. The Pastor for example. But if you are looking for a candidate with a view to a primary relationship, then the Pastor and his ilk effectively rule themselves out. And, of course there remains the inconvenient matter of ending the existing dysfunctional deal one is in before getting too deep into a new deal. I want someone that I can be friends with, and have intimacy . I am not expecting it to turn into a primary relationship, but I definitely want more than just sex. I have no experience, (yet) with any other relationship other than my marriage. I can share with you that the thought of meeting someone for a friend with intimacy, will seem much easier, simpler, (more prospects, le: other divorced woman) after my divorce, instead of having to also seek another woman in the same situation as mine, when I was lIASM. There was going to be a lot more strings attached! I also look forward to portraying a much more confident, self assured, free man, with nothing to hide. Perhaps that would help you in the long run, when you can portray yourself in the same manor, after the divorce? Sorry about the short run! I remember those times, when I would want any woman who was breathing....or so it felt at times. Don't sell yourself short, take a risk, take a chance, be bold, boost your self esteem, BUT BE CAREFUL OUT THERE! Friend weather you realize it or not this may be one of your tipping points? Remember that you are beautiful, strong, to be cherished, and respected. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2017 21:48:12 GMT -5
@isabella39 - I will just keep this simple.
You already have enough pain, stress, and aggravation in your life.
Your outsourcing partner should not be a source of more of the same. This is supposed to be something good in your life - fun, comfort, etc.
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Post by greatcoastal on Feb 12, 2017 23:12:31 GMT -5
And I know each relationship is unique in its own way and I can only supply anecdotal tidbits from my experience. But an SM can have a range of intimacy issues. My W and I were in the hot tub a few minutes ago, we were naked. We are naked around each other every day and have been snice day one. Being comfortable in our skin and with our bodies does not translate to sexual desire, at least for her. Those low libido partners who hide their bodies from their partner have other mental issues. Of course, being naked and sexually playful is ideal. It's not so much the nakedness ie hot tub, walking around, it's the shower situation I am incredulous of. Why would anyone shower together unless it was sexual? Perhaps it's just my inverted naivety, but unless you have a huge shower with 2 shower heads I fail to see the point of both being in there together. Who follows who in and who soaps who all over? If you don't then why not wait for the shower to become free. It's the logistics that I can't get my head round. For me sharing a shower has ALWAYS been a sexual situation, or at the very least a precursor to one. For me the shower indicates an intimacy that a hot tub( fun as that might be Jim 😀) doesn't. Maybe it's just me though. 🤔 Not to go to far off topic here, but oddly enough I dealt with a similar situation. At our last house, we did have a large open shower with two separate heads and handles. I remember us both needing to get ready at the same time. How many times I would soap her backside, wash her hair, and get to hug each other all soapy and rinse off. Only to have her, always need to rush off to work, get dressed quickly in the closet, and be out the door as soon as possible. Never wanting to do anything in the bed before hand, and certainly not in the evenings. Her evening were conveniently, Homeschool, kids, her daddy, all weapons to avoid intimacy, while I sat in the bedroom watching the news, wondering, how long this will continue? Year, after year. So, I would get my little crumb feeding in the shower, every few days, sex in the bed once a year. So....it's possible when you deal with a controller. It can easily be a precursor to a sexual situation, and still nothing happens, over, and over again, leading to the heightening of the feelings of rejection. Let me also add, after she left and there was the VCR and the TV, the room to myself, after being played like that, what do you think I would do, or watch, to finish the job? |
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Post by seabr33z3 on Feb 13, 2017 6:04:49 GMT -5
It's not so much the nakedness ie hot tub, walking around, it's the shower situation I am incredulous of. Not to go to far off topic here, but oddly enough I dealt with a similar situation.  At our last house, we did have a large open shower with two separate heads and handles. I remember us both needing to get ready at the same time. How many times I would soap her backside, wash her hair, and get to hug each other all soapy and rinse off. Only to  have her, always need to rush off to work, get dressed quickly in the closet, and be out the door as soon as possible. Never wanting to do anything in the bed before hand, and certainly not in the evenings. Her evening were conveniently, Homeschool, kids, her daddy, all weapons to avoid intimacy, while I sat in the bedroom watching the news, wondering, how long this will continue? Year, after year. So, I would get my little crumb feeding in the shower, every few days, sex in the bed once a year. So....it's possible when you deal with a controller. It can easily be a precursor to a sexual situation, and still nothing happens, over, and over again, leading to the heightening of the feelings of rejection. Let me also add, after she left and there was the VCR and the TV, the room to myself, after being played like that, what do you think I would do, or watch, to finish the job? TBH what you describe has got to have been infinitely worse that not showering together at all. It actually seems really cruel. It's like a teen fondle under the sweater to get you all hot and bothered, followed by a slap to the wrist if you try to move south. |
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Post by greatcoastal on Feb 13, 2017 9:25:27 GMT -5
Not to go to far off topic here, but oddly enough I dealt with a similar situation. At our last house, we did have a large open shower with two separate heads and handles. I remember us both needing to get ready at the same time. How many times I would soap her backside, wash her hair, and get to hug each other all soapy and rinse off. Only to have her, always need to rush off to work, get dressed quickly in the closet, and be out the door as soon as possible. Never wanting to do anything in the bed before hand, and certainly not in the evenings. Her evening were conveniently, Homeschool, kids, her daddy, all weapons to avoid intimacy, while I sat in the bedroom watching the news, wondering, how long this will continue? Year, after year. So, I would get my little crumb feeding in the shower, every few days, sex in the bed once a year. So....it's possible when you deal with a controller. It can easily be a precursor to a sexual situation, and still nothing happens, over, and over again, leading to the heightening of the feelings of rejection. Let me also add, after she left and there was the VCR and the TV, the room to myself, after being played like that, what do you think I would do, or watch, to finish the job? TBH what you describe has got to have been infinitely worse that not showering together at all. It actually seems really cruel. It's like a teen fondle under the sweater to get you all hot and bothered, followed by a slap to the wrist if you try to move south. Just an example of a bait-n-switch in the morning, and then excuses, and more manipulation in the evening. It gives a false hope, along with a false trust. The pastor could be going through the same thing, it's possible. |
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Post by Isabellas39 on Feb 13, 2017 10:49:49 GMT -5
TBH what you describe has got to have been infinitely worse that not showering together at all. It actually seems really cruel. It's like a teen fondle under the sweater to get you all hot and bothered, followed by a slap to the wrist if you try to move south. Just an example of a bait-n-switch in the morning, and then excuses, and more manipulation in the evening. It gives a false hope, along with a false trust. The pastor could be going through the same thing, it's possible. Wow, in these type marriages it truly messes with one's mind. I can't understand why anyone would do that, and why would you allow it ? I think the first few times you would be baffled, but if it happens often then wouldn't you simply get out of the shower when she tries to join ? It seems like such a cruel thing to do IMO. I stopped sleeping in the same bed as my husband because he enjoyed cuddling, but that's as far as it would ever go. After letting him know how the lack of intimacy made me feel with zero changes, I eventually moved to my own room. I have zero interest in being tortured. |
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Post by greatcoastal on Feb 13, 2017 12:42:11 GMT -5
Just an example of a bait-n-switch in the morning, and then excuses, and more manipulation in the evening. It gives a false hope, along with a false trust. The pastor could be going through the same thing, it's possible. Wow, in these type marriages it truly messes with one's mind. I can't understand why anyone would do that, and why would you allow it ? I think the first few times you would be baffled, but if it happens often then wouldn't you simply get out of the shower when she tries to join ? It seems like such a cruel thing to do IMO. I stopped sleeping in the same bed as my husband because he enjoyed cuddling, but that's as far as it would ever go. After letting him know how the lack of intimacy made me feel with zero changes, I eventually moved to my own room. I have zero interest in being tortured. Hindsight is 20/20! It's amazing how long we accept the crumbs, hoping for more, as we are blinded by the FOG. I had forgotten about those days, we are talking 7 to 8 yrs ago? Looking back, It's pretty fair to say that I was the one who would step in and share the shower. It was that rare few minutes of opportunity, when we were child free, FIL free, work free, she couldn't play the "i'm exhausted" card, I had to corner her, to actually have a moment of "marriage"! Sad isn't it? I most likely accepted the fact that something was better than nothing, and that I was continuing to show interest. 5 yrs ago when we moved to a bigger house, had adopted two more older kids, the morning shower time ended. I no longer was interested in attempting anything. Now all I want is to be divorced, and have a fresh new start. The healing is beginning. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2017 19:10:14 GMT -5
Isabellas39, you've gotten some great advice so I won't add to that, but I did want to weigh in on the pastor who watches porn. I call BS on that one. Either, he is a terrible pastor with little to no relationship with God or he is no pastor at all. From what I have seen, the church comes down on porn. It ruins relationships. Ruins men (maybe some women too) for sexual relationships with real people. That might e seen as a bit hard line here (I don't judge folks who like their porn), but I do think any church worth its salt would say no to it. I'm surprised he'd ad mit that he was a pastor that's why I suspect he's lying about that. If he's a pastor, he'd be ashamed to admit that. And second, I agree with greatcoastal, value yourself first in all of these relationships. You are to be cherished and respected. If someone doesn't seem to be offering that, run quickly. It may be that you can't get the respect you deserve in one of these outsourcing gigs. Just consider it. And don't forget your exit plan! I hope you can make one this year! 
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Post by seabr33z3 on Feb 13, 2017 19:41:33 GMT -5
Isabellas39, you've gotten some great advice so I won't add to that, but I did want to weigh in on the pastor who watches porn. I call BS on that one. Either, he is a terrible pastor with little to no relationship with God or he is no pastor at all. From what I have seen, the church comes down on porn. It ruins relationships. Ruins men (maybe some women too) for sexual relationships with real people. That might e seen as a bit hard line here (I don't judge folks who like their porn), but I do think any church worth its salt would say no to it. I'm surprised he'd ad mit that he was a pastor that's why I suspect he's lying about that. If he's a pastor, he'd be ashamed to admit that. And second, I agree with greatcoastal, value yourself first in all of these relationships. You are to be cherished and respected. If someone doesn't seem to be offering that, run quickly. It may be that you can't get the respect you deserve in one of these outsourcing gigs.  Just consider it. And don't forget your exit plan! I hope you can make one this year! I think it's possible that he WAS indeed a pastor. Pastors are men too. They are human and have failings. But what you said is likely true...his relationship with God is not good. Porn aside, he is a married man pursuing a relationship/ intimacy with another woman. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2017 20:08:26 GMT -5
Isabellas39, you've gotten some great advice so I won't add to that, but I did want to weigh in on the pastor who watches porn. I call BS on that one. Either, he is a terrible pastor with little to no relationship with God or he is no pastor at all. From what I have seen, the church comes down on porn. It ruins relationships. Ruins men (maybe some women too) for sexual relationships with real people. That might e seen as a bit hard line here (I don't judge folks who like their porn), but I do think any church worth its salt would say no to it. I'm surprised he'd ad mit that he was a pastor that's why I suspect he's lying about that. If he's a pastor, he'd be ashamed to admit that. And second, I agree with greatcoastal, value yourself first in all of these relationships. You are to be cherished and respected. If someone doesn't seem to be offering that, run quickly. It may be that you can't get the respect you deserve in one of these outsourcing gigs.  Just consider it. And don't forget your exit plan! I hope you can make one this year! I think it's possible that he WAS indeed a pastor. Pastors are men too. They are human and have failings. But what you said is likely true...his relationship with God is not good. Porn aside, he is a married man pursuing a relationship/ intimacy with another woman. I definitely agree, pastors are human and have their own flaws. My point is that if he's really a pastor, he'll know he's supposed to be ashamed and that no church sanctions porn. I would think he might be too ashamed to admit he's a pastor. That's all. And true, pastor or not - he's a married man seeking sex outside the marriage. |
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Post by baza on Feb 13, 2017 20:12:40 GMT -5
I think that porn - or partnerless sex - is a perfectly legitimate method of sexual expression.
Just as legitimate as heterosexuality, homosexuality, bi-sexuality etc.
It doesn't need "fixing". It is simply another - different - method of sexual expression.
It is how some people are wired.
I don't see anything wrong with it, in and of itself.
Where the problem comes in, is when the person presents themself as something else (let's say a 'normal' heterosexual with 'normal' sexual desires) in order to ensnare another person to produce a facade of 'normality'.
That ain't a "sex problem", that's a LYING problem.
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Post by petrushka on Feb 13, 2017 23:17:42 GMT -5
Heh, my refuser and I shower together occasionally when we have a shower that's big enough. She asks for it! We are naked in bed together. She gives me pets (but sadly no full body cuddles). Why the hell should we not. We were naked in the hot tub together every day at our old house. Everybody is different. Every relationship is different. Why should a pastor, or any religious person not watch porn? As far as I know, it says nowhere in the book that you should not watch xhamster or whatever. The X-tian religion has not been a-sexual or anti-sexual down the ages. That's kind of a thing invented by Calvin and the Puritans. The way you view that behaviour may say more about you, your preconceptions and prejudgements than about that person. If that pastor doesn't get any, then, to my mind, it's perfectly understandable that he rubs one out every now and then, and may use porn as a masturbatory aid. Well, whatever. However - if the interaction with the guy feels weird, creepy, oddly off - then that's a damned good reason to leave it alone. But I'm very much with what Bazz and Jim have to say here. bballgirl -- if there wasn't the friend thing I would not even think about the 'outsourcing'. Otherwise it's not a FWB as I understand it, it's not even a fuckbuddy, it's a casual drive by fuck, or a one night stand .... which is not what I would want at all. |
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Post by seabr33z3 on Feb 14, 2017 2:45:03 GMT -5
Heh, my refuser and I shower together occasionally when we have a shower that's big enough. She asks for it! We are naked in bed together. She gives me pets (but sadly no full body cuddles). Why the hell should we not. Why the hell should we not? |
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