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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2017 19:36:52 GMT -5
We have this dynamic in a SM, a refuser and a refused.
The refused is usually the miserable one while the refuser is happy. I'm not making a universal statement and there are always exceptions.
What is the refuser getting from the relationship that keeps them in it? It's not intimacy or romantic love. Couldn't the refuser have the same kind of relationship with a friend or roommate?
Which brings up a point, is the refused just a roommate to the refuser?
I would like to explore this and see what people have to say. Apparently the refuser is getting something rewarding out of the relationship or they would not stay. They're the one in power.
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Post by shamwow on Feb 10, 2017 20:06:32 GMT -5
I'd say for each refuser it is different.
They get security, protection, status of being married, kids if they want them, and people not hounding them to get married.
And they also get their fill of sex.
I know that sounds surprising, but many refuser are not asexual. Many just have a very low and mismatched libido with their partner. These sexual camels still need sex, but at a maddening low level. So they get that too.
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Post by bballgirl on Feb 10, 2017 20:13:00 GMT -5
A maid, cook, the status of being married, double income.
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Post by rejected101 on Feb 10, 2017 21:41:11 GMT -5
A maid, cook, the status of being married, double income. To add to Bballgirl's list. A person to fuck as and when they feel horny be that 1 month or 6 months after the last time, a person to provide them with a child or children, a person who makes them feel warm and cozy in bed at night, a person to share life with and let them feel good about themselves. |
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Post by baza on Feb 10, 2017 22:27:02 GMT -5
"What do refusers get out of relationships?"
Many things - such as
Appearance of 'normality' to the outside world.
Financial benefits.
Assistance in child care.
Social accessory to attend parties family / work gatherings etc.
Prestige / status.
Sperm / egg donor.
In short, a refuser gets pretty much the same thing out of a marriage as does the refused.
The difference is, that the refuser is quite happy with what they are getting out of the deal, but the refused spouse is not.
So the real question here is - "What are YOU getting out of the ILIASM shithole ? What's in it for YOU ?"
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Post by solodriver on Feb 11, 2017 0:21:43 GMT -5
They're the one in power. That's what the refusers get out of it. They can't control anything else in their life, but they sure as hell can control the sex. And we never see it coming because before we're married, (at least in my 2 marriages) they were very giving sexually almost all the time.
I remember in the wedding to my first wife, as we were walking back up the aisle after being announced Mr. and Mrs., I distinctly saw and felt her demeanor change. I thought it was just stress, but boy was I wrong. Instead of having sex on our wedding night, we had an argument about the way I parked the car. And then she didn't want to have sex for the next 10 days! That NEVER happened before we got married.
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Post by McRoomMate on Feb 11, 2017 0:47:32 GMT -5
What a PROFOUND topic. I LOVE the responses - it all seems so OBVIOUS but yet from my mind and awareness very very hidden until I read everyone´s answers.
After a heated argument of 15 minutes and agreeing to a Divorce last Saturday . . . and she saw I was serious . . . My W told me she still "loved" me and that she was willing to try. So we had mad passionate sex that night . . . many called this as a "Reset Sex". After a week . . . looks that way.
So many good answers so far - so inspiring . . .
Yes they get:
1. CONTROL
2. Not alone / Psychologically someone there for them
3. Help with raising children - Father in the house for the children
4. Status of being married
5. Higher double income
6. Handy man around the house (well I suck at this but normally yes) / A second set of helping hands
7. Complete set of family members for Birthdays and important holidays (honestly Christmas was the first thing I worried about when I thought of Divorce).
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Post by baza on Feb 11, 2017 4:15:33 GMT -5
Nit picking here, but refusers do NOT "get" control of you.
You actually cede control to them, by your own choice - and you have been (and will continue to) pay the price for that.
You can re-take control of yourself whenever you like - as long as you are prepared to pay the price.
Your job is really to figure out "which" price you are going to pay.
#1 - being the price you pay to remain in your ILIASM shithole.
#2 - being the price you pay to get out of your ILIASM shithole.
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Post by McRoomMate on Feb 11, 2017 5:00:05 GMT -5
Nit picking here, but refusers do NOT "get" control of you. You actually cede control to them, by your own choice - and you have been (and will continue to) pay the price for that. You can re-take control of yourself whenever you like - as long as you are prepared to pay the price. Your job is really to figure out "which" price you are going to pay. #1 - being the price you pay to remain in your ILIASM shithole. #2 - being the price you pay to get out of your ILIASM shithole. BEAUTIFUL ! Yes it is just like politics Power resides in "WE the People" - power is always a choice and a surrender. Same holds true in a Marriage or any human relationship. Absolutely. "Freedom is NEVER free" abso-freaking-lutely. Always a price. And well, slavery has a price too - it costs freedom to put it in its purest terms. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2017 8:45:50 GMT -5
Many of us have our own weakness which keeps us in a bad relationship. You'll have to face these and work on them. This is the most important step.
In the meantime, you may be able to improve your SM by understanding your spouse's top need. What are they getting out of the marriage.
You may be able to negotiate better terms.
First, you have to know what the refuser values most in a relationship. Then stop giving them this need. Do this step without emotions or anger. There's no war or arguing, just the removal of that partner's most valued need.
Often times, people can not empathize with another until they've felt the same pain. The refuser has nothing to loose, when the refused begs, pleads, and does more services to try to please the refuser. This only reinforces the refuser's behavior. It's similar to a child who screams to get their way. You reward them for their screaming. The child will continue even more in the bad behavior. There is no reason for the refuser to negotiate in the marriage. The refused meets all the refuser's needs.
Why not find your spouse's top need and not give it to them?
Some might say this is manipulation. I don't see it as manipulation. Every relationship has a dynamic of give and take. The unbalance comes when there is only one giver. This happens in SM. There is a loss of reciprocity. People do not appreciate things that come without work. They value you less because they get these things without any type of effort on their part. Think of a spoiled child who is given everything and you'll see how we teach the refusers to become selfish.
I'm putting some ideas out, not saying these are rules or answers to your problem. I think it may be worthwhile to try. The important thing is to do it without spite or anger. The reality of a relationship is that a good marriage takes both partners giving and caring for the needs of their partner. The refuser has to understand that they have to give if they want to receive their needs.
My marriage is turning around but ever now and then Ms. H. slides back. I mark her behavior and let her know it's unacceptable. If she continues, then I remove myself from her. I'll usually talk to her several hours later or the next day after she is not emotional about the situation. I'm using my wife's needs to correct her behavior when it's wrong. I'm teaching my wife how to treat me. At the same time, I always show her respect and kindness.
If I treat her wrong, she'll let me know.
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Post by ggold on Feb 11, 2017 9:32:11 GMT -5
When the shit hit the fan with my husband just about a year ago and I said the words I wanted a divorce, this was his response:
I don't want to lose the kids.
I don't want to be alone like an urn on a shelf.
I don't want to lose the house.
For him in this SM, he gets a family image, companionship minus intimacy and sex (perfectly fine for him), and the lovely home that we reside in (he's very attached to the house).
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cavu
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Post by cavu on Feb 11, 2017 9:39:36 GMT -5
When the shit hit the fan with my husband just about a year ago and I said the words I wanted a divorce, this was his response: I don't want to lose the kids. I don't want to be alone like an urn on a shelf. I don't want to lose the house. For him in this SM, he gets a family image, companionship minus intimacy and sex (perfectly fine for him), and the lovely home that we reside in (he's very attached to the house). Exactly. The refused is never a high priority. |
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Post by ggold on Feb 11, 2017 10:42:27 GMT -5
When the shit hit the fan with my husband just about a year ago and I said the words I wanted a divorce, this was his response: I don't want to lose the kids. I don't want to be alone like an urn on a shelf. I don't want to lose the house. For him in this SM, he gets a family image, companionship minus intimacy and sex (perfectly fine for him), and the lovely home that we reside in (he's very attached to the house). Exactly. The refused is never a high priority. Yep!!! Exactly. Losing me was not on his list. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2017 11:48:19 GMT -5
GGold,
Your husband does not want to be alone, but is willing to make you feel rejected and even more alone.
You gave him children and the companionship. What would have happened if you pulled away the companionship and left him alone?
Do you think it might have wakened him to the reality of the situation?
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Post by ggold on Feb 11, 2017 12:44:38 GMT -5
GGold, Your husband does not want to be alone, but is willing to make you feel rejected and even more alone. You gave him children and the companionship. What would have happened if you pulled away the companionship and left him alone? Do you think it might have wakened him to the reality of the situation? I should have divorced him years ago. Yes, I think actually making that move would have awakened him to the reality of the situation. It has now. We had our first session of divorce mediation last month and will go again in a couple of weeks. He is facing it. He said he would do anything to change it and if he could go back in time to fix it, he would. I have made it perfectly clear that it is too late, and he knows. Like most of us in SMs, we feel that everything else is okay with the marriage minus sex/intimacy. I know now that it is not about sex. It's about communication, love, connection, intimacy. You are correct, I've been alone for many years. He's been a companion. He's a good person. He's imperfect as we all are. I wish he finds happiness too after the divorce. We will always be coparents and partners for our kids. |
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