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Post by bballgirl on Jan 26, 2017 18:25:32 GMT -5
Boils down to incompatibility and lack of communication. Maybe more practical to discuss what the incompatibility and the lack of communication boil down to. They boil down to a lack of desire for a spouse on part of the other. If the desire is there, communicating about sex is a total turn on. As is having the sex without any other communication. Having sex is a kind of communication too. I can say things with that that I can't say other ways, in the same way that I can say things by singing that I can't say by writing, or talking. If desire isn't there, then the person they don't want to have sex with is bothering them and won't shut up about it. So there won't be any communication, except one partner sending out signal to a hostile room. What does the lack of desire boil down to? That's hard to say when you are in it, but even in the singles world, it's superhard to generate desire once you are in the friend zone, beyond "why not?". Once you defog, you might find a whole Pandora's box - usually involving contempt or long term - either that you did, or that they thought, or that results from circumstance that they never anticipated (like what does marriage mean to them?) But knowing that doesn't help you generate desire. When I wrote that the thought that I had in my head was incompatibility in regards to certain women being judgemental of fantasies. Some women think certain things are disgusting, I mean if a man tells a woman his fantasy is to be peed on, I think a lot of women would think it's disgusting irregardless of whether they would do that or not. I'm definitely open minded and non judgemental. In regards to fantasies I think it doesn't just boil down to desire. A couple can be in a good marriage, have sex 5 times a month but it doesn't involve their fantasies because I think with marriage and barriers that sometimes naturally pop up in a relationship causes inhibitions and sexual barriers. So now I know better and a man I go out with I expect him to be able to know how to enjoy all aspects of sex and not be judgemental. I agree with you with a lot of your ideas about desire. You either have some attraction for someone or you don't and in time that attraction can fade. In regards to all of us on this forum the ideas of fantasies with our spouses is so out in left field they won't even be just a basic giving lover let alone try something a little freaky. |
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Post by novembercomingfire on Jan 26, 2017 19:29:38 GMT -5
As if living in a SM wasn't bad enough, I recently admitted all my fantasies to my wife in a last ditch effort to spark things. She replied she has no interest in any of them. Not even a gentle "I'll think about it", or a "let's compromise"...just a straight shoot-down. That conversation will go down as the last attempt I ever make at "rejuvenating" my SM, which was never more than once a month during the best years. I don't think I even find my wife attractive anymore, so I guess she should toast this occasion, as she won't have to put up with my annual "talk" going forward. Just wondering if anyone else out there has had their fantasies shot down, and if it was as crushing to you as it was to me. Yes and yes. All of them. No interest in even experimenting. |
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Post by novembercomingfire on Jan 26, 2017 19:33:26 GMT -5
What seemed like normal requests, (things I had experienced in the past) were shot down, rejected, dismissed. Leaving me feeling like I was some kind of sexual pervert. Another great example of how a refuser "compromises". They say no, and you have to agree, simply because they don't like it. End of compromise. How dare you FORCE something on someone who doesn't like it. Especially a man on a woman. What was supposed to be an eternal marriage filled with living out and giving someone else the maximum sexual pleasures, and receiving back from it, instead becomes a dangerous area to even proceed into, with hidden fears of prosecution, because you went to far. Here's the cherry on top. My spouse years later in counciling, complained that "I didn't lead, I wasn't a leader". My last and final attempt was during our re-set vacation over a year ago. We were alone on a three mile trail, in a public park. The park was built inside an old abandoned orange grove. I mentioned to my W. "I love being outside like this.maybe we could come back later around sun set and have some romantic time to ourselves? Her response, "NO, I am just an old fuddy -dutty for that." Sounds like my wife - an old fuddy-duty. I swear she's turned into her mother. I should have followed the old advice to look at a prospective spouse's mother or father to get a preview of what's in store for the future. I thought about it but my then fiancé was so adamant that she didn't want to turn out like her mother that I believed her. Yet he we are .... This. Most unfortunately. |
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Post by kiltedpadre on Jan 26, 2017 19:48:07 GMT -5
My wife has pretty much a blanket no to anything that involves being anywhere other than the bed. The only exception is she agreed to playing in the shower after a discussion with our therapist. We did try, but the water goes from hot to ice cold far too quickly. Damn electric water heater!
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Post by greatcoastal on Jan 26, 2017 19:51:06 GMT -5
My wife has pretty much a blanket no to anything that involves being anywhere other than the bed. The only exception is she agreed to playing in the shower after a discussion with our therapist. We did try, but the water goes from hot to ice cold far too quickly. Damn electric water heater! Brings new meaning to the term, "take a cold shower". Only in the bed, anything else was a "fantasy". |
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Post by Apocrypha on Jan 26, 2017 20:32:32 GMT -5
the thought that I had in my head was incompatibility in regards to certain women being judgemental of fantasies. Some women think certain things are disgusting, I mean if a man tells a woman his fantasy is to be peed on, I think a lot of women would think it's disgusting irregardless of whether they would do that or not. I'm definitely open minded and non judgemental. When my girlfriend last year told me that was a particular kink of hers, I listened with an open mind. I broke up with her for other reasons before I decided a stance on that with her. I don't think I'd chalk that up to a gendered thing. Similarly, when an extremely beautiful married friend of mine (in a sexless marriage) presented the tasteful and expensive lingerie she'd worn for her husband, I was shocked that he asked "what was wrong with her?" - humiliating her. I can buy that - sometimes a fantasy or kink is simply not compatible. I have had a number of lovers who required a certain kind of kink or "tone" to their sex and who simply couldn't have that with their partners. But I can assure you that if there is an absence of desire for a partner, that no amount of fantasy involving that partner is going to be appealing. I spent YEARS researching techniques, skills, ways of having sex or setting a scenario, kinks, trying to communicate with Mrs Apocrypha about it and making it as safe as possible for her to feel comfortable sharing with me whatever she must clearly have felt ashamed about. Almost any fantasy on the table. In counselling, I recalled those years as being desperately generous, open, non-judgmental, non-pressuring, accommodating to whatever it was that she was afraid to say or even think turned her on. She recalled the entire time as me being sex-obsessed and perverse. She understands now that this was not intended, but even KNOWING that doesn't change the feeling from having experienced it that way. |
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Post by lyn on Jan 26, 2017 20:57:53 GMT -5
The sad thing is, I would never, at this point, share any fantasies of mine with my H. I don't speak of anything other than superficial b.s. ..... as long as I throw in Tiger Woods, The Rockets, or some other sports reference into the conversation, we're good. I hate that I'm sounding like such a bitch, but it's true. I'm just glad I still have fantasies, he's just not in them anymore, and if he has any, I'm sure as hell not in them.
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Post by deadzone75 on Jan 26, 2017 21:37:54 GMT -5
I guess it's kind of my own fault. I mean, as others above have pointed out, someone who has no interest in sex with you is unlikely to go from cold to hot because you mention filming the sex that never happens. By the way, filming was one of my suggestions. I thought it might work because I pitched that I might not ask as much if I could relive the sex on film at my leisure (a lame reasoning, but, hey, wouldn't she rather me look at us instead of other porn?). It didn't work. Nor did my other ideas.
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Post by Apocrypha on Jan 26, 2017 21:58:53 GMT -5
I guess it's kind of my own fault. I mean, as others above have pointed out, someone who has no interest in sex with you is unlikely to go from cold to hot because you mention filming the sex that never happens. By the way, filming was one of my suggestions. I thought it might work because I pitched that I might not ask as much if I could relive the sex on film at my leisure (a lame reasoning, but, hey, wouldn't she rather me look at us instead of other porn?). It didn't work. Nor did my other ideas. Oh, deadzone. What Baza says is quite true about being in a sexless marriage, how it starts you thinking weird thoughts that end up feeding back into a dysfunctional loop. Here's an illustrative anecdote for that path, had you been able to convince her. I managed to convince Mrs Apocrypha to try out some new fangled personal video technology around 15 years ago when thing were going awry, but not at crisis level (I thought, but it was early still). We made a couple movies. When the salt sea turned to desert dunes for us, I tried to preserve my attraction for her by visiting those archives too. That movie of my own wife became my sole outlet for years. Around the time I pulled the plug, I had so completely associated the act of "self-love" with loneliness and rejection that I avoided it because I would begin to weep. The closest thing I had to an intimate partner was a movie my wife grudgingly made with me, which I clung to like a dog, starving on its master's grave. It's fucked up, deadzone- it'll make you crazy. I'm STILL not completely over that. |
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Post by baza on Jan 26, 2017 22:22:56 GMT -5
It reads like your missus is not even interested in "ordinary" sex with you Brother deadzone, and that has been the case for quite a while.
She appears to have communicated that to you very clearly>
So on what basis you'd figure upping the ante had any chance is rather difficult to fathom.
But, she has again communicated to you, quite clearly, what her position is.
Is the issue here that you are not receiving her - rather obvious - communication clearly ?
And, what are you transmitting back to her ?
She may well assume that, given that you are still with her, that fact indicates you are ok with the situation.
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Post by beachguy on Jan 26, 2017 22:44:10 GMT -5
It reads like your missus is not even interested in "ordinary" sex with you Brother deadzone, and that has been the case for quite a while. She appears to have communicated that to you very clearly> So on what basis you'd figure upping the ante had any chance is rather difficult to fathom. But, she has again communicated to you, quite clearly, what her position is. Is the issue here that you are not receiving her - rather obvious - communication clearly ? And, what are you transmitting back to her ? She may well assume that, given that you are still with her, that fact indicates you are ok with the situation. Or perhaps, she assumes that he would never leave her over that because it's "just sex". I've frequently heard here that many STBX's are shocked when the divorce is announced, and claim they never realized how bad things were and etc. That fits my suggestion here. My own story: I once tepidly suggested tying my wife to the bed. "No way! I don't trust you!". It is difficult to articulate the hit I took with that. I could have divorced her over that. But then someday I might have to explain why I divorced my wife. "Well, she wouldn't let me tie her to the bed. What choice did I have?" Somehow that doesn't work.... |
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Post by eternaloptimism on Jan 27, 2017 14:46:22 GMT -5
This will so sound puritanical, but I wanted to sit in a chair and have her straddle me, facing me. She was incredibly reluctant (she has always expressed distaste at anything other than just laying there.....and one of her most telling lines is "Boobs are for babies".) Anyway she did the chair for maybe a minute and then she stopped, didn't like it - probably too intimate for her to deal with. About a week later we were having lunch with her brother at a park and she started joking about "that monkey thing" I "made (her) do." Yeah, HILARIOUS........fun picnic. That was probably 20 years ago.......and to this day when we visit BIL, he is likely to throw out some random joke about 'that monkey thing'. I gave up, too. It's the only way to try and preserve our sanity and start looking around for the fire exits. Jeez BK. That's atrocious. And my god... nothing even remotely kinky really! And why does a person feel it necessary to do that to another ESPECIALLY in company. X |
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Post by eternaloptimism on Jan 27, 2017 14:55:32 GMT -5
My wife has pretty much a blanket no to anything that involves being anywhere other than the bed. The only exception is she agreed to playing in the shower after a discussion with our therapist. We did try, but the water goes from hot to ice cold far too quickly. Damn electric water heater! Just being nosy, what was it about the shower that, in her head, made it the only other place it was "ok" to "do it"? |
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Post by tamara68 on Jan 27, 2017 16:23:38 GMT -5
I have never felt safe enough to express fantasies with my stupid stbx. I am sure it must have enlightened and surprised him when he hacked my cheat e-mails ;-)
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Post by rejected101 on Jan 27, 2017 17:02:16 GMT -5
As if living in a SM wasn't bad enough, I recently admitted all my fantasies to my wife in a last ditch effort to spark things. She replied she has no interest in any of them. Not even a gentle "I'll think about it", or a "let's compromise"...just a straight shoot-down. That conversation will go down as the last attempt I ever make at "rejuvenating" my SM, which was never more than once a month during the best years. I don't think I even find my wife attractive anymore, so I guess she should toast this occasion, as she won't have to put up with my annual "talk" going forward. Just wondering if anyone else out there has had their fantasies shot down, and if it was as crushing to you as it was to me. I made a mistake once of wondering if I was the problem and that 'we' weren't adventurous enough. Tried a few different things and got blanked. Shall we try....nah, do you want to do....nah, have you ever wondered if....nah! Sometimes I just long for someone who will enjoy trying new things, lose her inhibitions and be happy to giggle with me when the neighbour knocks on the door and asks if we can keep the noise down. |
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