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Post by lakeside4003 on Jan 25, 2017 12:47:50 GMT -5
continuing to be inspired by all, and lately with Shamwow and Caged Tiger's brave and heartfelt 'escapades' - I'll add that I too have maintained the tough walk of leaving...some may recall that I have stated to my wife in our therapy session that I thought a trial separation made the most sense as a next step. Boy was she pissed, told me I could sleep in the extra bedroom (where I've been quite comfy for weeks now), but no pleading me to stay or suggesting some re-set sex or anything, as she knows we're well past that...
I had previously challenged her that if she would set up some focused counseling with a sex therapist to dig into her avoidance issues and seeming asexuality, that might provide a path forward for us - but as she still disputes the reality of our situation with her own 'alternative facts' ('we do too have sex more that 1X/month!! we've been having sex frequently for years!' when in truth it was maybe 4-5x in 2016, and similar for many years prior).
The most incredible 'alternative fact' was yesterday in (likely my final appt) therapists office that she acknowledged that she hasn't been accepting my way of describing my feelings, because it didn't make sense to her way of looking at it. Therapist firmly corrected her that my feelings are correct as stated - and she has no right to consider them 'incorrect' just because she looks at things differently. It's so obvious that she wants to avoid any significant responsibility for our sm and is way more comfortable blaming me for pretty much everything.
I'm out as soon as the house is sold. (it's on the market now)
While the prevailing attitude on this board seems to be that therapists 'don't really help the ultimate outcome' (and I agree) - they can be very helpful if the desire is to maintain a respectful co-parenting setting (as bballgirl seems to have created) whereby there's an accepted understanding that wasn't there before - and potentially a relationship that is not filled with (as much?) acrimony, hate and blame down the road and beyond...
Our son is getting married in August and I'd prefer to keep a respectful and honest tone (my friends and my family all know and understand) - she's freaking out at having to explain our demise to her family & friends, when she knows that they know me quite well as 'the rational guy'.
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Post by beachguy on Jan 25, 2017 12:55:31 GMT -5
In a major sex argument my wife vehemently denied the 10 years of total celibacy. So I asked her "ok, when was the last time?"
No answer. This is why I always say you will never get validation of your misery or reasons for leaving. This is all a long term gaslighting scheme.
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Post by beachguy on Jan 25, 2017 12:57:01 GMT -5
One of our members was organized enough to keep score on a calendar. After the usual gaslighting he produced the calendar. She then berated him for keeping score. Nope, there is never any validation of any of this.
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Post by greatcoastal on Jan 25, 2017 13:05:32 GMT -5
One of our members was organized enough to keep score on a calendar. After the usual gaslighting he produced the calendar. She then berated him for keeping score. Nope, there is never any validation of any of this. Is the glass half full, or half empty? Both correct, both facts. It just depends on how you are going to use both facts to solve a problem, or one of the facts to continue your own manipulative control. My STBX would go on and on about the fact that it's not a glass it's a cup, it's not made of glass, it's plastic, it's not empty, there's air in it, the side is wet, that's liquid, and on and on.... manipulation. |
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Post by beachguy on Jan 25, 2017 13:10:58 GMT -5
One of our members was organized enough to keep score on a calendar. After the usual gaslighting he produced the calendar. She then berated him for keeping score. Nope, there is never any validation of any of this. Is the glass half full, or half empty? Both correct, both facts. It just depends on how you are going to use both facts to solve a problem, or one of the facts to continue your own manipulative control. I would argue she has no facts to support her. Keeping score is a valid activity. This is not about facts, it is all about manipulation and control. In the case where a spouse tells you to sleep in another room, I think the correct response is: that's my bed too. If you have a problem then you can sleep in the other room. If you're going to end a marriage it is necessary to take back some control. Sleeping arrangements are a good place to start. Entering a marriage is all about love. Ending a marriage is all about control. And those in enforced celibacy have gotten the short end of the control stick. |
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Post by worksforme2 on Jan 25, 2017 14:10:12 GMT -5
One of our members was organized enough to keep score on a calendar. After the usual gaslighting he produced the calendar. She then berated him for keeping score. Nope, there is never any validation of any of this. I did the same thing. After a difference of opinion as to frequency I started making an X on the calendar for when I initiated. I circled the X if we did anything. By anything I mean oral, vaginal or anal. After 3 months and following the usual # of refusals I brought out the calendar. She had no response. But guess what? Nothing changed as far as frequency. We more or less maintained the quarterly system. |
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Post by cagedtiger on Jan 25, 2017 14:36:28 GMT -5
One of our members was organized enough to keep score on a calendar. After the usual gaslighting he produced the calendar. She then berated him for keeping score. Nope, there is never any validation of any of this. Are you talking about me? Because that's what I did, and that's what happened. Interestingly enough, she just accused me of gaslighting her when we were in our couples session this morning. |
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Post by beachguy on Jan 25, 2017 14:44:23 GMT -5
One of our members was organized enough to keep score on a calendar. After the usual gaslighting he produced the calendar. She then berated him for keeping score. Nope, there is never any validation of any of this. Are you talking about me? Because that's what I did, and that's what happened. Interestingly enough, she just accused me of gaslighting her when we were in our couples session this morning. I don't recall who. I just know I've read that at least once here. It may well have been you. Now that you've made the decision to leave, you may want to consider how much time and effort you intend to put into the autopsy. You may want to keep the therapy focused on how to manage the exit, now that that is a non-negotiable happening. |
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completelybaked
Junior Member
"I have become comfortably numb" - Pink Floyd
Posts: 29 
Age Range: 70+
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Post by completelybaked on Jan 25, 2017 14:49:02 GMT -5
I use a calendar too, in the bathroom above the scale (I track my weight there, hers is "classified"). I put an asterisk on days we've had sex and an H where I get the equally rare hand job. She has never commented, but I doubt she would have even noticed these rare marks.
Thinking about it, I think I change from an asterisk to a star to reflect the quality going forward IF I ever have anything to track.
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Post by baza on Jan 25, 2017 17:01:19 GMT -5
A refuser squirming under the spotlight of having to explain themselves to friends / family.
I don't find myself feeling terribly sympathetic to her to be quite honest.
However, if it were HER asking how to 'sell' the situation to friends / family, I'd counsel her to do the enigmatic "we grew apart" platitude, in the sure and certain knowledge that given an hour or two, it will have passed into history as the recipients of this "we grew apart" remark turn their attention to the big issues in their own lives. Like the latest bit of idiocy from those deplorable Kardashians, or who will win "Canada Has Talent" and suchlike.
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Post by eternaloptimism on Jan 25, 2017 17:04:47 GMT -5
A refuser squirming under the spotlight of having to explain themselves to friends / family. I don't find myself feeling terribly sympathetic to her to be quite honest. However, if it were HER asking how to 'sell' the situation to friends / family, I'd counsel her to do the enigmatic "we grew apart" platitude, in the sure and certain knowledge that given an hour or two, it will have passed into history as the recipients of this "we grew apart" remark turn their attention to the big issues in their own lives. Like the latest bit of idiocy from those deplorable Kardashians, or who will win "Canada Has Talent" and suchlike. Agreed. We humans need to quit worrying about what other people should be told. It's up to us what we say, who to, and how much info is involved. None of any any one else's business unless we choose to let it be so. This is was one of my concerns too early doors when I came here. Not bothered any more  |
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Post by csl on Jan 25, 2017 17:07:34 GMT -5
One of our members was organized enough to keep score on a calendar. After the usual gaslighting he produced the calendar. She then berated him for keeping score. Nope, there is never any validation of any of this. I wrote two blog posts about using calendars. One reader said it was a "game-changer" for his marriage. |
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Post by lakeside4003 on Jan 25, 2017 22:19:23 GMT -5
with all due respect for the mother of my children, I will take the high road and acknowledge to her friends/family that we've simply grown apart - a steady, glide-path away from each other over many years now - and we both contributed to the distance. No other detail is necessary. our kids are grown and they saw this coming quite awhile ago.
my wife has always been overly concerned (imo) about what other people may think or gossip about and for the next while (and up through our sons wedding) I will not fan the flames of her discomfort - I don't need to feel any more righteous than I already do.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2017 10:19:55 GMT -5
My refuser is so much like this it is scary. She recently stated that the only reason we did not have sex for 6 years was that I did not "ask enough." I pointed out that on the few occasions I did ask, she would scream at me that my penis did not even work any more. Then she wanted to argue about how many times she said that. The counselor has asked her to stop debating details, but to try to listen to my perspective. She is not capable of that.
But yes, the counselor has told me in a private session that it is quite obvious that she is not capable of empathy and is very defiant. It was nice to be validated.
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Post by greatcoastal on Jan 26, 2017 11:44:40 GMT -5
My refuser is so much like this it is scary. She recently stated that the only reason we did not have sex for 6 years was that I did not "ask enough." I pointed out that on the few occasions I did ask, she would scream at me that my penis did not even work any more. Then she wanted to argue about how many times she said that. The counselor has asked her to stop debating details, but to try to listen to my perspective. She is not capable of that. But yes, the counselor has told me in a private session that it is quite obvious that she is not capable of empathy and is very defiant. It was nice to be validated. Being validated Is like recieving sex and intimacy!!! I could make a plaque for my wall, that says: YOU WENT ABOVE AND BEYOND AND YOU'RE W. PUT FORTH ZERO EFFORT. |
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