Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2017 17:55:37 GMT -5
When I was in counseling after my first marriage, my counselor told me that when you marry someone then you have implicitly agreed to be sexually available to them. If your spouse is withholding sex from you, for whatever reason they may THINK justifies it, they have failed to remain faithful to you. Whether or not that gives you a license to outsource depends on the couple, but I like BBgirl's conclusion. I agree wholeheartedly. |
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Post by McRoomMate on Jan 25, 2017 18:01:42 GMT -5
It is cheating but they broke the vows first. My answer to your poll is none of the above. I was faithful for 21 SM years. The last 13 celibate despite the fact that he knew I wanted sex with him. He watched porn secretly and lord only knows what else secretly. So my conclusion was if he did not want to include me in his sexuality then he has no right to knowing about mine when I outsourced. Absolutely. There is an implied condition of SEX between spouses - If one spouse refuses, the contract´s performance is breached and the other party is no longer bound. Now to fess up - Yes I "outsourced" long before I could have reasonably tried to amend/ offered therapy / talked about it. However, I have not read any posts (maybe 1 or 2, but I think Zero) where the H/W had a long term SM and then did any technique that brought back a normal sex life. So I am quite confident there was nothing to do anyway - call it "TERMINAL SEXLESS MARRIAGE" and no cure after such a long long time with no Sex, No Intimacy, No Affection. Society will call it "cheating" other cultures would stone me for adultery - so yes it is HIGH RISK - but so is stepping into an arena. Life is worth living and you take risk - manage / derisk as best as possible - but still risky nonetheless. The final Caveat: Cheating or Outsourcing (whatever you want to call it) has an unforeseen risk and that is "FALLING IN LOVE" - it can happen at the most inopportune time and the most unexpected way - Trust me. |
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Post by iceman on Jan 25, 2017 18:31:35 GMT -5
To me when your spouse refuses sex on a long-term basiis and it's a unilateral decision on their part they've cheated on you already. If you've made it clear to your spouse that the situation isn't acceptable and made every reasonable attempt to resolve the situation to no avail you have every justification to go outside the marriage. Ideally one should leave the marriage but if for whatever reason that's not possible you are justified to fill the void in your marriage anyway you can. Sex is a basic human need and nobody has the right to deprive you of it, not even your spouse.
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Post by rejected101 on Jan 25, 2017 19:10:33 GMT -5
It is cheating but they broke the vows first. My answer to your poll is none of the above. I was faithful for 21 SM years. The last 13 celibate despite the fact that he knew I wanted sex with him. He watched porn secretly and lord only knows what else secretly. So my conclusion was if he did not want to include me in his sexuality then he has no right to knowing about mine when I outsourced. Bballgirl couldnt have worded this any better. What is it to watch porn and jerk off when you have a loving and willing spouse. What is it if you jerk off regularly without porn when you have a loving and willing spouse. It's a complete exclusion and it's cheating in its own right. Have I ever jerked off - of course. Was that cheating - No because I would always have picked my spouse first if she was willing. I never ever thought I would cheat, I still haven't but I now know that I could never ever rule it out. Why on gods green earth do some people prefer fucking themselves? I just don't get it!!! |
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Post by baza on Jan 25, 2017 19:36:55 GMT -5
You can (and many refused spouses do) drive yourself nuts chasing "why" your spouse is avoidant.
It doesn't matter "why".
It can be a great airtight water tight reason that you will never find out.
It can be a great airtight water tight reason that you DO stumble across.
It can be a complete bullshit reason that you don't know.
It can be a complete bullshit reason that you do know.
It doesn't matter whether you know "why" they are avoidant, or whether you don't.
You already know the critical bit of information - that your spouse IS avoidant.
There is your cue for your next actions.
Stay.
Cheat.
Leave.
Knowing "why" (or not knowing "why") does not create a 4th or 5th choice for you.
Your choices remain the same either way.
Stay.
Cheat.
Leave.
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Post by bballgirl on Jan 25, 2017 19:47:38 GMT -5
It is cheating but they broke the vows first. My answer to your poll is none of the above. I was faithful for 21 SM years. The last 13 celibate despite the fact that he knew I wanted sex with him. He watched porn secretly and lord only knows what else secretly. So my conclusion was if he did not want to include me in his sexuality then he has no right to knowing about mine when I outsourced. Absolutely. There is an implied condition of SEX between spouses - If one spouse refuses, the contract´s performance is breached and the other party is no longer bound. Now to fess up - Yes I "outsourced" long before I could have reasonably tried to amend/ offered therapy / talked about it. However, I have not read any posts (maybe 1 or 2, but I think Zero) where the H/W had a long term SM and then did any technique that brought back a normal sex life. So I am quite confident there was nothing to do anyway - call it "TERMINAL SEXLESS MARRIAGE" and no cure after such a long long time with no Sex, No Intimacy, No Affection. Society will call it "cheating" other cultures would stone me for adultery - so yes it is HIGH RISK - but so is stepping into an arena. Life is worth living and you take risk - manage / derisk as best as possible - but still risky nonetheless. The final Caveat: Cheating or Outsourcing (whatever you want to call it) has an unforeseen risk and that is "FALLING IN LOVE" - it can happen at the most inopportune time and the most unexpected way - Trust me. I totally agree with living life and taking risks. My favorite Latin idiom is: Fortuna audaces iuvat which translates to Fortune favors the bold. |
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Post by bballgirl on Jan 25, 2017 19:50:20 GMT -5
It is cheating but they broke the vows first. My answer to your poll is none of the above. I was faithful for 21 SM years. The last 13 celibate despite the fact that he knew I wanted sex with him. He watched porn secretly and lord only knows what else secretly. So my conclusion was if he did not want to include me in his sexuality then he has no right to knowing about mine when I outsourced. Bballgirl couldnt have worded this any better. What is it to watch porn and jerk off when you have a loving and willing spouse. What is it if you jerk off regularly without porn when you have a loving and willing spouse. It's a complete exclusion and it's cheating in its own right. Have I ever jerked off - of course. Was that cheating - No because I would always have picked my spouse first if she was willing. I never ever thought I would cheat, I still haven't but I now know that I could never ever rule it out. Why on gods green earth do some people prefer fucking themselves? I just don't get it!!! It's because he was selfish, lazy and intimacy averse. There was never connection when we had sex with kissing or eye contact. Very sad but I have it a million times better now. |
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Post by ggold on Jan 25, 2017 23:45:55 GMT -5
When I was in counseling after my first marriage, my counselor told me that when you marry someone then you have implicitly agreed to be sexually available to them. If your spouse is withholding sex from you, for whatever reason they may THINK justifies it, they have failed to remain faithful to you. Whether or not that gives you a license to outsource depends on the couple, but I like BBgirl's conclusion. I agree with your counselor! I think I'm printing out your words. Thx! |
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Post by ggold on Jan 26, 2017 0:04:43 GMT -5
When your spouse refuses to have sex. You have done all you possibly could to fix it. The shrink is off the table .
Is Stepping out on a SM really cheating
If you live in a SM would that not be considered Roommates
1) Do you tell your partner before you cheat
2) Get a divorce before you cheat
3) Or just go without sex
4) none of the above (WHY)
Looking for any and all thoughts on these questions
Is it cheating? I guess so technically since one is breaking the vow of marriage. As others have stated, refusers have cheated us out of what was agreed upon in those marriage vows. I never thought I would outsource. I was raised in a strict Catholic family and "Thou shall not commit adultery" was engrained in my brain along with the other 9 Commandments. My marriage has been sexless for over 10 years. We lost connection and intimacy even before that. In my mind, my marriage was over a long time ago. Opportunity came my way when I was so lonely and vulnerable. I outsourced. My spouse found out that same night. It got us talking about our marital situation and I flat out told him I wanted out. He wouldn't accept this. He didn't want to go back to couples therapy. He didn't get himself any help. From my one night experience, I learned that I absolutely needed sex in my life. Not only did I need sex, but intimacy as well. I continued to outsource with other men. (Not all were full sexual encounters) I did not reveal anything to my husband. He most likely knew but didn't question me. (At one point, he told me to do what I need to do about my needs but not to give him details...open marriage?? Who knows??) I can say that outsourcing gave me confidence in myself, made me feel like a woman again, and allowed me to rediscover what I enjoy sexually. It also was the push I needed to get going on my exit. My husband and I are in divorce mediation. We had our second session last night. It sucks and I'm scared, but I know it's all for the best. Whether you choose to outsource or go without sex in your marriage, you are riding an emotional roller coaster. Do what you feel in your heart is right for you. |
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flowerdust
Junior Member
Posts: 61 
Age Range: 46-50
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Post by flowerdust on Jan 26, 2017 11:12:42 GMT -5
Wow !!! I did not know I was going to get this many respondences. Thank you everyone for your advice as well as experiences. My favourite would be BBGirl, But reading through all of the post the consensus would be to cheat on a SM is still cheating, it is justifiable yes.
I have not cheated on my spouse,
Do I want to (NO)
Have I thought about it (Awbsafrickenlutey)
Do I want to hurt him (NO)
Has he hurt me (YES) I miss the intimacy
Long and short I know that I will cheat at one point, I have been on sites like AM putting myself out their, think to just find out if I was still disable to other men I needed that ego boost I guess . But I would never cheat with the guys on there, My reasons for cheating are different from (I am just board).
I have found out a couple of things about myself along that road. Someone asked me what turns me on ? I used to know that, I thought about it for days (Sad to say I don't remember) How do you forget something like that ?
I also realized that I cannot think of my spouse when I am alone (My body gets started then shuts down) Just like whats happens to him the maybe three time a year that we do have sex (only because I have to have the talk with him why I need sex) Just makes me more frustrated in the end mostly because I feel that it is pity or obligation sex. where as before he would see it through now that is not the case.
What I do know is that this whole thing is playing havoc on me, just not mentally but physically as well.
Why I still love this man I have no clue. Has he broken our contract of our vows yes he has
Bottom Line is Yes I am confused, I would love for him to snap out of it ! Throw me down on the bed rip all my cloths off and well I don't need to finish that sentence you know how that ends lol.
I know it is not going to happen, as much as I would like it to.
I am not trying to justify why I should cheat, like I said I do not want to, but I do have a human need.
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Post by bballgirl on Jan 26, 2017 11:26:17 GMT -5
flowerdust it took me a year of considering AM before I actually outsourced. I relate to a lot of what you wrote. I was there back in 2013 and 2014.
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Post by LITW on Jan 26, 2017 11:32:50 GMT -5
Flowerdust, your journey is very much like mine. The thought of cheating is painful, but very appealing, because it meets a fundamental need, which is to feel like someone desires you. Being in a relationship with someone who is supposed to desire you, but does not, is a level of hell on earth.
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Post by rejected101 on Jan 26, 2017 11:38:13 GMT -5
Wow !!! I did not know I was going to get this many respondences. Thank you everyone for your advice as well as experiences. My favourite would be BBGirl, But reading through all of the post the consensus would be to cheat on a SM is still cheating, it is justifiable yes. I have not cheated on my spouse, Do I want to (NO) Have I thought about it (Awbsafrickenlutey) Do I want to hurt him (NO) Has he hurt me (YES) I miss the intimacy Long and short I know that I will cheat at one point, I have been on sites like AM putting myself out their, think to just find out if I was still disable to other men I needed that ego boost I guess . But I would never cheat with the guys on there, My reasons for cheating are different from (I am just board). I have found out a couple of things about myself along that road. Someone asked me what turns me on ? I used to know that, I thought about it for days (Sad to say I don't remember) How do you forget something like that ? I also realized that I cannot think of my spouse when I am alone (My body gets started then shuts down) Just like whats happens to him the maybe three time a year that we do have sex (only because I have to have the talk with him why I need sex) Just makes me more frustrated in the end mostly because I feel that it is pity or obligation sex. where as before he would see it through now that is not the case. What I do know is that this whole thing is playing havoc on me, just not mentally but physically as well. Why I still love this man I have no clue. Has he broken our contract of our vows yes he has Bottom Line is Yes I am confused, I would love for him to snap out of it ! Throw me down on the bed rip all my cloths off and well I don't need to finish that sentence you know how that ends lol. I know it is not going to happen, as much as I would like it to. I am not trying to justify why I should cheat, like I said I do not want to, but I do have a human need. Everyone justifies why they have cheated or why they want to. Some with more validation then others. They key thing in this though is, you are not cheating or thinking of cheating because you are sex obsessed or greedy. It's like you have said, you have a basic human need to be touched and there is zero shame in it. None whatsoever. In fact it should be a celebration that after however long you have been together you still want that one person. Unfortunately that want or desire for this person can dwindle when you are left in the cold for too long. |
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Post by rejected101 on Jan 26, 2017 11:46:09 GMT -5
What gets me is that these people who spend their lives refusing will often be shocked when sex is found elsewhere. What is there to be shocked about? If you stand in the middle of the train track all day everyday why are you surprised that you were run down by a train? I simply don't get it. However what it categorically does is place cheater in the offender bracket and the other in the victim bracket. What a joke!
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Cass
Junior Member
Posts: 22
Age Range: 31-35
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Post by Cass on Jan 26, 2017 12:33:47 GMT -5
I have had the same back and forth conversation with myself numerous times. I feel like I am suffocated by the complete lack of intimacy or affection in my relationship, we are roommates at best. For the first while I thought that it would be fine that he would come around and we would get back on track, but after 3 years of absolutely nothing cheating is not far from my mind. Do I want to hurt him? No, but at the same time I do because I feel so hurt and angry for the way he has made me feel about myself. I never thought I would cheat on him, but I am definitely open to it now. I just don't think there would be much hesitation if a situation presented itself and I have often thought about pursuing outsourcing.
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