|
|
Post by greatcoastal on Jan 23, 2017 15:30:19 GMT -5
It's possible that he is addicted to porn and/or asexual. I really just don't know. He's never really given me an answer. Any time I bring up the issue all I get is "I'll try harder", "I'll make more of an effort" or his to go answer "This was how I was raised....." A lot of the same bullshit. Look I will fully admit that I've had my own issues, I've gained weight, am not as active as I used to be and don't get all dressed up when we are staying home. When I do go out, I go all out. I'm the woman that men hate because they take too damn long to get ready! Everything has to be perfect in my eyes.I don't do it for him, I do it for myself. It makes me feel good. But even when I do I get a "you look nice". Not a sexy, hot, you turn me on anywhere in sight. I know a lot of women who would say the don't even get a "you look nice". So that's why I'm starting to look at myself as the problem. Does that make sense to anyone? No it doesn't make sense. because if you gain weight, you "only" look nice, and your not smokin' hot, "theoretically",he still has a desire, a need to be filled. So he likes his bread cut sideways instead of down the middle! Your still that tasty sandwich that he craves. Time to dump the excess baggage, lighten your load, and feel cherished again. |
|
|
|
Post by beachguy on Jan 23, 2017 15:43:44 GMT -5
It's possible that he is addicted to porn and/or asexual. I really just don't know. He's never really given me an answer. Any time I bring up the issue all I get is "I'll try harder", "I'll make more of an effort" or his to go answer "This was how I was raised....." A lot of the same bullshit. Look I will fully admit that I've had my own issues, I've gained weight, am not as active as I used to be and don't get all dressed up when we are staying home. When I do go out, I go all out. I'm the woman that men hate because they take too damn long to get ready! Everything has to be perfect in my eyes.I don't do it for him, I do it for myself. It makes me feel good. But even when I do I get a "you look nice". Not a sexy, hot, you turn me on anywhere in sight. I know a lot of women who would say the don't even get a "you look nice". So that's why I'm starting to look at myself as the problem. Does that make sense to anyone? No it doesn't make sense. I mentioned another member here, that was hearing the same gaslighting from her husband. I've seen her pic. She's young, thinly built and smoking hot. But that has NOTHING to do with HIS problem or your HIS problem. The only thing that makes sense to me is that he is either a closet gay or asexual, as I tried to suggest earlier. It makes no sense that... - he finds you too repulsive to have sex with - but he is otherwise affectionate Especially if he is still very affectionate with you, it makes a LOT of sense that... - He found you attractive enough to fall in love with and marry - He still finds you attractive and he's still in love with you, and... - He's still affectionate with you, but... - He simply has no interest in PARTNERED sex, with you or apparently anyone else - And that does not preclude his use of porn or masturbation because that is NOT partnered sex. Spend some time in AVEN and you will find people that like O's, and some use porn as an "assist". That is indistinguishable with what is often called "porn addiction". So don't get confused over the porn/masturbation thing Men with healthy sexuality like to fuck the women they want to kiss and cuddle with. In fact it is not only a seamless transition, it is a NEED. The reason I stopped sleeping in the same bed, and stopped initiating any affection at all is that it drove me NUTS if it NEVER ended in sex. I'm not saying I could never spoon to sleep without sex, but not 30 days in a row, and months in a row. Might sound crude but it's the truth as best I understand it. And if I'm wrong, we're then in a quibble over the semantics of "healthy"  |
|
|
|
Post by baza on Jan 23, 2017 18:24:30 GMT -5
Sister Carol.
Let's assume that you are the refuser then for the sake of arguement.
The fact would remain that you are in an ILIASM shithole in which you are most dis-satisfied.
And you would have 3 choices.
Stay.
Cheat.
Leave.
Funnily enough, these choices are exactly the same as if you were the refused.
Refused / refuser. It matters not.
If you are in an ILIASM shithole, and you want to bring it to resolution, you get my vote any day of the week.
I personally couldn't give a fuck if you are the refused or the refuser.
|
|
|
|
Post by pfviento on Jan 23, 2017 23:09:59 GMT -5
A question for all of you, especially the men. Even though we haven't had sex in a very long time, my H is still pretty affectionate with me. He always wants to kiss and hug me, he's into PDA and tells me all the time that he loves me. He gets very hurt if I don't say it back. All that affection but any time I think he might be interested in going farther, he stops. The last time we even attempted sex he could not get an erection. I'm at the point now where if he would try, I wouldn't want to have sex him. I love him as a friend at this point. Physically, I'm not attracted to him anymore. Have I become the "refuser"? Am I the one with the problem? Thoughts? I'm sure it'seems more common than you think. I love my wife still. I find her attractive but over time resentment builds over time to where I don't ask for it and avoid the reset. |
|
|
|
Post by Carol on Jan 23, 2017 23:54:17 GMT -5
So we met with our marriage counselor tonight and I laid it all of it out to him. I said that I am resentful of him that he has forced me into a life of celibacy. That I cannot continue in the marriage if this was how he wanted it to be. That I do not find his sexually attracted to him anymore because he's turned me away so many times. So our counselor suggested that he see a licensed sex therapist for him to overcome his mental and physical issues with sex. He agreed to it and she will help him to find one. I told him this is it, you get help or I won't stay in the marriage. At least I got the verification that it's not me. So now I wait ... I'm still moving ahead with plans to get all my ducks in row so if the day comes that it all falls apart , I'll be ready.
|
|
|
|
Post by baza on Jan 24, 2017 1:44:59 GMT -5
This is probably a bridge too far Sister Carol, but "zipcode therapy" where you were free to concentrate on your recovery without him around - and where he could concentrate on his issues (if he actually intends to try) without you around, might have a fair bit going for it.
But in any event, you have punted this one a long way down the field, and are waaaay in front of where you were a couple of weeks ago.
Well done.
But keep your preparations for a potential hard landing going. The recovery rate of sexual avoidants is pretty abysmal. And in your case, where you have lost all attraction for him may mean that mindset won't alter either.
|
|
|
|
Post by Carol on Jan 24, 2017 1:58:39 GMT -5
Oh I am predicting that this, if he even if he is able to get to the bottom of what his issues are, will even be short lived. He promises a whole helluva lot and sadly never delivers on what he promises. It's not just sex, he's like that with everything. He'd rather sit a bitch and play the "poor me" card. But I feel that he does deserve a chance at least, at least one more, before I throw in the towel. But I'm not going to hold my breath.
|
|
|
|
Post by darktippedrose on Jan 24, 2017 13:11:53 GMT -5
This is called counter-refusal. Its normal. Its a defense mechanism. You know, even subconsciously, that he can't be trusted so you engage in counter refusal to protect yourself from the pain.
|
|
|
|
Post by forestsoul on Jan 27, 2017 3:16:12 GMT -5
Men with healthy sexuality like to fuck the women they want to kiss and cuddle with. In fact it is not only a seamless transition, it is a NEED. The reason I stopped sleeping in the same bed, and stopped initiating any affection at all is that it drove me NUTS if it NEVER ended in sex. I'm not saying I could never spoon to sleep without sex, but not 30 days in a row, and months in a row. Might sound crude but it's the truth as best I understand it. And if I'm wrong, we're then in a quibble over the semantics of "healthy" Yes, exactly. I had this conversation with my wife the other day.. After talking about having trouble sleeping next to her, where she might want to cuddle but then stop at that, I explained that the cuddling makes me angry, which keeps me up tossing and turning. The solution is to remove myself from the situation. So she naturally wondered why cuddling would make me angry. I LOVE cuddling! Well, I explained that after months and months of no sex, physical intimacy was an insult. Cuddling, short kisses, hugging.. they lead to nothing else, and so break my trust in opening myself up to her. Therefore, I was tired of the constant rejection and said that cuddling has become a form of rejection in and of itself. |
|
|
|
Post by Lithium92 on Jan 27, 2017 6:55:09 GMT -5
I'm at exactly the same place as the OP. While my wife is minimally physically affectionate outside sex, that's more about her just not being demonstrative than lack of love, or repulsion. It's a problem in itself for me but she's willing to give it a try with good grace if I ask and she doesn't tense or whine. She just doesn't see it as ever being a ramp up to sex, which she's said she had no need for ('it's just something we used to do, like going to clubs'). She has no libido and apparently never saw sex as having an emotional component. As Beachguy says, this comes down effectively being asexual. She's not willing to go to counselling over it, tho I'm in therapy individually.
In theory, she's open to having sex, for my benefit, but when we tried it a couple of times (months ago) she was clueless and disengaged, though not grudging. Kind of like attending an event you had no interest in or understanding of, or wish to understand, but doing it with good grace. The second time, I gave her Haines Manual type instructions, which she was happy to go along with but didn't seem to connect what she was doing with my reaction, in the sense of 'he likes that, I'll do more of it'.
For instance... I like her to use her nails on my skin. It's delicious, sensually, and I was vocally appreciative, but afterwards she asked me if it had been okay. I get that she's showing some willing, which is great, but she seemed completely unable to interpret my reactions in the moment.
Between that, her lack of passion, pleasure, emotion, and knowing that she'd just as rather not have sex at all, plus all the years of rejection, plus my own issues about asking for what I want in general (that's mostly what the therapy is about), I'm just not initiating, and I have refused or just curtailed sessions myself. Not that there's been anything to curtail for month...
When I've done that, she's fine with it, doesn't get upset, puzzled or ask what's going on. Just back to her book with no comment.
How have other refusers reacted when they're refused?
|
|
|
|
Post by snowman12345 on Jan 27, 2017 7:12:20 GMT -5
Carol I won't try to analyze your relationship because I am not there to see it happening. I will tell you that it has also happened to me. When I look at my wife now, I have very little sexual desire for her as she is now. I desire the memory of her from years ago. So, now you realize you don't want your present husband as he is now. The question is - what are you going to do about it? Good luck, I hope you find what you're looking for.
|
|
|
|
Post by beachguy on Jan 27, 2017 9:09:27 GMT -5
Men with healthy sexuality like to fuck the women they want to kiss and cuddle with. In fact it is not only a seamless transition, it is a NEED. The reason I stopped sleeping in the same bed, and stopped initiating any affection at all is that it drove me NUTS if it NEVER ended in sex. I'm not saying I could never spoon to sleep without sex, but not 30 days in a row, and months in a row. Might sound crude but it's the truth as best I understand it. And if I'm wrong, we're then in a quibble over the semantics of "healthy" Yes, exactly. I had this conversation with my wife the other day.. After talking about having trouble sleeping next to her, where she might want to cuddle but then stop at that, I explained that the cuddling makes me angry, which keeps me up tossing and turning. The solution is to remove myself from the situation. So she naturally wondered why cuddling would make me angry. I LOVE cuddling! Well, I explained that after months and months of no sex, physical intimacy was an insult. Cuddling, short kisses, hugging.. they lead to nothing else, and so break my trust in opening myself up to her. Therefore, I was tired of the constant rejection and said that cuddling has become a form of rejection in and of itself. Your wife has no concept of the value of sex in a relationship. End of story. |
|
|
|
Post by bballgirl on Jan 27, 2017 9:38:56 GMT -5
Yes, exactly. I had this conversation with my wife the other day.. After talking about having trouble sleeping next to her, where she might want to cuddle but then stop at that, I explained that the cuddling makes me angry, which keeps me up tossing and turning. The solution is to remove myself from the situation. So she naturally wondered why cuddling would make me angry. I LOVE cuddling! Well, I explained that after months and months of no sex, physical intimacy was an insult. Cuddling, short kisses, hugging.. they lead to nothing else, and so break my trust in opening myself up to her. Therefore, I was tired of the constant rejection and said that cuddling has become a form of rejection in and of itself. Your wife has no concept of the value of sex in a relationship. End of story. I love the way you worded that - "the value of sex in a relationship". I think these are great words for a couple to discuss from the beginning. If I ever have another relationship then this will be a topic of discussion. I will also make it clear that if a man got to a point that he didn't desire me then honesty is best and it's time to cut bait. I'm pretty cynical and jaded and I sort of believe all relationships have a shelf life. The only thing that keeps a relationship preserved like a Twinkie is kids and finances and I don't care for a twinkies. I'm more of a cherry pie and a scoop of ice cream with a side of chocolate sauce. |
|
|
|
Post by beachguy on Jan 27, 2017 9:45:38 GMT -5
Your wife has no concept of the value of sex in a relationship. End of story. I love the way you worded that - "the value of sex in a relationship". I think these are great words for a couple to discuss from the beginning. If I ever have another relationship then this will be a topic of discussion. I will also make it clear that if a man got to a point that he didn't desire me then honesty is best and it's time to cut bait. I'm pretty cynical and jaded and I sort of believe all relationships have a shelf life. The only thing that keeps a relationship preserved like a Twinkie is kids and finances and I don't care for a twinkies. I'm more of a cherry pie and a scoop of ice cream with a side of chocolate sauce. As you know, my STBX appeared to have quite a libido when I first met her. That always confused me. When I came to understand the difference between libido and valuing sex in a relationship almost everything fell in place and I understood asexuality. I don't fully understand what happened to that libido but since this is a recurring theme here I just accept that a libido that doesn't understand the value of sex is just a weapon and a tool. I am sure my wife valued her libido as a weapon and a tool. |
|
|
|
Post by bballgirl on Jan 27, 2017 10:15:18 GMT -5
I love the way you worded that - "the value of sex in a relationship". I think these are great words for a couple to discuss from the beginning. If I ever have another relationship then this will be a topic of discussion. I will also make it clear that if a man got to a point that he didn't desire me then honesty is best and it's time to cut bait. I'm pretty cynical and jaded and I sort of believe all relationships have a shelf life. The only thing that keeps a relationship preserved like a Twinkie is kids and finances and I don't care for a twinkies. I'm more of a cherry pie and a scoop of ice cream with a side of chocolate sauce. As you know, my STBX appeared to have quite a libido when I first met her. That always confused me. When I came to understand the difference between libido and valuing sex in a relationship almost everything fell in place and I understood asexuality. I don't fully understand what happened to that libido but since this is a recurring theme here I just accept that a libido that doesn't understand the value of sex is just a weapon and a tool. I am sure my wife valued her libido as a weapon and a tool. That sounds like an accurate analysis of your wife where she valued sex as a tool and weapon in order to get what she wanted in life. Really that's the premise of reset sex, it's a tool to get us to stop nagging them for another month, 6 months, or a year. They know because of the kids, finances, etc we won't leave and when we hit rock bottom they can reset us. What's really sad is nobody wants to be alone in life but lonely is so much worse. Because of the incompatibility with the way they value sex, they made us feel lonely so now the consequences are being alone. The value of sex is clearly about connection but with people who are intimacy averse to some degree they aren't capable of that connection. Sex is just a release or a tool, physical touch is at the bottom of their love language and for us it's in the top three to feel loved so it boils down to incompatibility and why we chained ourselves to someone that didn't desire us the way we needed to be desired? (Kids, finances, etc.). I feel like I'm rambling now but it's so complicated yet with the right person it's not complicated. |
|
