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Post by rejected101 on Jan 16, 2017 5:54:51 GMT -5
I've always been one to initiate sex and once refused, quietly dealt with the issues it causes alone and not initiate again for at least a couple of weeks. I sometimes wonder if this is just playing in to her hands and giving her an easy ride (not the sort of ride that puts a smile on ones face). What would happen if my refusal was met with a further initiation 48 hours later, and if refused again another short period of grace before I initiate again. Has anyone ever done this sort of thing and if so what reaction did it cause?
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Post by novembercomingfire on Jan 16, 2017 7:50:29 GMT -5
I've always been one to initiate sex and once refused, quietly dealt with the issues it causes alone and not initiate again for at least a couple of weeks. I sometimes wonder if this is just playing in to her hands and giving her an easy ride (not the sort of ride that puts a smile on ones face). What would happen if my refusal was met with a further initiation 48 hours later, and if refused again another short period of grace before I initiate again. Has anyone ever done this sort of thing and if so what reaction did it cause? Repeatedly for years and then, more recently, on occasion. Usually, and especially lately, it has resulted in her having a near breakdown and accusing me of being "manipulative" and that i am not thinking of her needs. Sometimes there is crying. When she is interested, she tells me she will let me know ... |
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Post by worksforme2 on Jan 16, 2017 9:07:30 GMT -5
With my X I (probably like most) attempted to initiate often in spite of the refusals, because I didn't understand what was happening. I have yet to read a story where a refuser announced that from today forward there would no longer be intimacy and specifically no sex in the marriage. The initial refusals were always based on some plausible reason, too tired, headache, backache, too busy with other things. It took a while and I mistakenly thought that all those authors who's advise I read and tried to follow really could help me correct or change the direction of my matrimonial boat. Eventually she simply placed herself such that it became more difficult for me to initiate. And she became less amenable to any form of intimacy as there was always the possibility a few kisses or hugs could morph into more. My guess is the refusal rate will simply go up for you and she may become less patient about your more frequent neediness. She will find other ways or means to deny you what you seek. That was my experience.
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Post by GeekGoddess on Jan 16, 2017 10:02:11 GMT -5
If you try more often, you're likely to get denied more often. But it also is a means to talk about what's going on more often.
Are her refusals mean? Emotional based or physical? (If you've had the same headache for 3 weeks, honey, you need a doctor! Or tell me what's really going on please!)
I'm under no impression that talking will fix the lack of intimacy but it can make clearer that the SM is beyond repair. And if you know that for sure, you can make more informed choices about what you will do about being married to someone who doesn't want sec with you.
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Post by DryCreek on Jan 16, 2017 10:38:56 GMT -5
rejected101... "You're always pressuring me for sex." "All you think about is sex." Which perhaps leads to her giving in to duty sex periodically, because you're clearly desperate and she's obligated. How intimate!
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Post by beachguy on Jan 16, 2017 11:03:48 GMT -5
My thoughts... for whatever they are worth...
Your spouse has little or no interest in having sex with you. Any "interest" they show is likely just a willingness to accommodate you somehow. This is a really simple problem. Your spouse has no more interest in having sex with you than they have eating some food that they were initially not terribly averse to, but did nothing for them. In order to get that ring on their finger they went out of their way to accommodate you. But now they have you on the hook, likely with children (aka balls and chains). And you kept insisting they eat this food, multiple times a week, perhaps. And that inevitably leads to resentment. At some point you can stop asking them to eat that food with you, and that will certainly keep the peace. Or you can keep insisting they eat it with you, building resentment in them, and eventually in you as you are constantly refused.
Of course, there is a huge difference between sex and food. No one ever blew up a marriage because you outsourced a pepperoni pizza. But sex is a different matter.
You cannot make your spouse want you. You can leave them in celibate happiness by not initiating very often, or you can make them as uncomfortable as you are by asking for something they are averse to every day. That is your choice.
If you are down to strategizing how often you piss them off by asking for sex, and how the right choice might somehow solve the problem, you are overthinking the problem and failing to see the big picture.
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Post by rejected101 on Jan 16, 2017 11:38:09 GMT -5
rejected101... "You're always pressuring me for sex." "All you think about is sex." Which perhaps leads to giving in to duty sex periodically, because you're clearly desperate and she's obligated. How intimate! Notice how the post asks if people have done this and not that it's what I'm doing. However there is a line between pressurising someone in to something they don't want to do vs allowing someone to dictate all the goings on because you too afraid to stand up for yourself. It's a grey area. Here's one "Your always pressuring me for money, all you think about is money. You are so controlling". Now if my wife said that to me would I not have a right to ask her to contribute towards our home, our food, our holiday money etc? It's wrong to pressure someone but equally it's wrong to just lie down and do nothing when it's unfair. |
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Post by DryCreek on Jan 16, 2017 11:57:12 GMT -5
rejected101, I get it. Been there, tried that, was describing my results. They tend to have selective, yet long-term memory too. I hadn't touched my wife or initiated in months to "give her space" -- then she complained to our therapist that I was always doing it. When confronted with the facts, she had no response. As you observe, all of this makes it difficult to tread the fine line between pressuring and capitulating.
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Post by rejected101 on Jan 16, 2017 12:06:07 GMT -5
rejected101, I get it. Been there, tried that, was describing my results. They tend to have selective, yet long-term memory too. I hadn't touched my wife or initiated in months to "give her space" -- then she complained to our therapist that I was always doing it. When confronted with the facts, she had no response. As you observe, all of this makes it difficult to tread the fine line between pressuring and capitulating. I couldn't have worded it so perfectly or elegantly as what you just did! My post was geared around whether people have tried this and whether it forced a conversation to happen. |
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Post by Lithium92 on Jan 16, 2017 12:15:20 GMT -5
What did the therapist say?
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Post by DryCreek on Jan 16, 2017 12:27:02 GMT -5
What did the therapist say? Sadly, the therapist didn't key off that for anything meaningful. She should have latched onto that like a viper. Although we continued with her for a while, and me for much longer after that, in retrospect I realize she was not a good therapist. I'd selected her for her specialization in sexual issues, which it turned out was with sexual addiction and sex offenders. Quite the other side of the coin from trying to increase sexuality. Odds are good she was a refuser herself. |
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Post by novembercomingfire on Jan 16, 2017 13:01:44 GMT -5
rejected101, I get it. Been there, tried that, was describing my results. They tend to have selective, yet long-term memory too. I hadn't touched my wife or initiated in months to "give her space" -- then she complained to our therapist that I was always doing it. When confronted with the facts, she had no response. As you observe, all of this makes it difficult to tread the fine line between pressuring and capitulating. I especially don't care for the "i need some space" when it later gets flipped into "you never treat me like you want to be near me." |
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Post by novembercomingfire on Jan 16, 2017 13:03:27 GMT -5
rejected101, I get it. Been there, tried that, was describing my results. They tend to have selective, yet long-term memory too. I hadn't touched my wife or initiated in months to "give her space" -- then she complained to our therapist that I was always doing it. When confronted with the facts, she had no response. As you observe, all of this makes it difficult to tread the fine line between pressuring and capitulating. I couldn't have worded it so perfectly or elegantly as what you just did! My post was geared around whether people have tried this and whether it forced a conversation to happen. In my experience, i would not say a conversation was initiated, as i tend to deem conversations as two-way by definition. It did always engender some righteous indignation and unilateral complaints. |
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Post by beachguy on Jan 16, 2017 13:34:32 GMT -5
However there is a line between pressurising someone in to something they don't want to do vs allowing someone to dictate all the goings on because you too afraid to stand up for yourself. It's a grey area. There is no line between those two alternatives. There is an option to end the relationship. That is your only recourse. We can fill an entire forum full of discussion about how to find that line, but it does not exist. It always gets back to: stay and take it or leave. We have said over and over: the lower libido spouse has ALL the power in the relationship. Except the power to force their spouse to stay in the relationship. That is the one power you have. |
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Post by thebaffledking on Jan 16, 2017 14:19:26 GMT -5
If you try more often, you're likely to get denied more often. But it also is a means to talk about what's going on more often. Are her refusals mean? Emotional based or physical? (If you've had the same headache for 3 weeks, honey, you need a doctor! Or tell me what's really going on please!) I'm under no impression that talking will fix the lack of intimacy but it can make clearer that the SM is beyond repair. And if you know that for sure, you can make more informed choices about what you will do about being married to someone who doesn't want sec with you. Spot ON, GG! OP, read and ingest this with your very soul. If her responses to you are verbally and/or physically cruel/cold, you are down to almost zero wiggle room (I'd say zero, but will leave that thin shaft of light so you can still see). In several major attempts to get mine to see and understand how her unilateral and cold decisions were ravaging my spirit, I just got new levels of cold and cruel statements in return. And on the 4th and final attempt she threw me such a gaslit curveball, I am stunned to this day - "The no sex thing is mutual so don't you hang that on me!" And then she went on living her life, apparently thinking she had finally put me in my place so I'd just work, get paid, and allow her to enjoy her life as a reborn virgin. What your spouse is doing to you is one of the most destructive and cruel things one spouse can do to another......(barring physical inability)......she knows it, but won;t accept that responsibility............just like mine couldn't stomach it, so came up with this bizarre 'mutuality' aspect to keep her feeling okay about using me and sucking up my lifeforce. |
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