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Post by McRoomMate on Jan 14, 2017 14:36:22 GMT -5
I have read a lot of the posts and it seems to be quite often one partner is wanting sex intimacy and the other is refusing.
In my case, I stopped asking for sex years ago - my wife only wanted sex once - last February - we were on ski vacation - and has not even tried to touch me since.
I remember years ago (like 10 years ago) - she said I wanted sex too much. I can't remember - maybe blocked out - but I just stopped asking / stopped begging / stopped being a bother.
The other time is 6 years ago when she wanted another child we started having sex every night for 2 weeks until she was pregnant. She NEVER comes up to me not for many years and wants to hold me or touch me. Honestly, I do not either.
The point is I am wondering who is to blame? She says all the problems in our marriage our 100% my fault - she has no part in it. I think it takes two to create disfunctional passionless sexless marriage.
So at this point it is like we are both "Refusers" or even worse "Don't even Bother" is the order of the day - and has been for years and years.
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Post by GeekGoddess on Jan 14, 2017 15:04:05 GMT -5
Counter-refusal is a common phenomenon I think. Seems like yours happened very early though. For me - I was the refused before finding EP. I still wanted & hoped but knew that my H was not physically capable of a hard-on. I didn't know what to do about things when my sex drive came roaring up on me. That's when I found EP and read a LOT and learned a TON.
I didn't try scented candles strategies really but I did get up my nerve to confront him that I was experiencing sex drive urges at an unprecedented rate, that I regretted our neglect of other alternatives to PIV sex, and that I wanted (nay, needed) something to be done. He promised we could try. He said we could go get a vibrator together and the day came and I went alone (I think deets are posted in other stories). The night came and I didn't even have the comfort level to get the vibe out of hiding that night.
We tried twice to make out and do "foreplay only" sessions and one was bad and the second was worse. My mind was made up by then and I simply worked on the outstanding details of my exit plan and the letter to deliver my news of Decision to Divorce.
Amazing your wife could want sex EVERY day for TWO weeks when there is something she would get out of it & so quickly turn it around to blame you that you wanted sex "all the time" and all of that.
Just remember when one finger is pointing the blame to someone else, they still have three fingers pointing back at them.
I'd suggest that perhaps a couples counselor could help you two find common ground but in a way, you already have that - neither of you initiates. However - I'd wager that only one of you is "happy" with this truce.
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Post by beachguy on Jan 14, 2017 15:19:05 GMT -5
Your wife spent years training you not to want her. She was hugely successful. Now you have a girlfriend on the side and you are falling madly in love with her. Oops. Maybe her strategy was not such a good idea. Eventually she will discover your secret, and she will put all the blame on you, as usual. Like a good husband you will drop your girlfriend in an effort to make peace, and she will have you right back where she wants you. In enforced celibacy. Alternatively, of course, you could leave. Welcome to ILIASM  |
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Post by beachguy on Jan 14, 2017 15:30:50 GMT -5
To more directly answer your question, I believe there is at least some element of counter-refusing in almost every story here. In fact, it seems most people don't get here until they are at or well past that point. It was true in my case. We went celibate when I stopped asking because I was actually quite averse to her sexually. It just felt WRONG.
I think it is a form of insanity to remain sexually attracted to someone who has repeatedly, over many years, made it quite clear that they are not attracted to you. They might fuck you to shut you up every couple months or once a year, but even that sex is meant to humiliate you and encourage you not to ever ask again.
Personally, I do not desire women who do not desire me. I don't find any value in it although some people do.
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Post by GeekGoddess on Jan 14, 2017 15:54:19 GMT -5
beachguy - this was a big deal for me lately: Personally, I do not desire women who do not desire me. When I had the spiritual crush on a program member and he told me he wasn't interested, the crush stopped immediately. I was very happy to discover that NOW, one of my criteria for a potential mate IS that they be attracted to me - into me. I used to have a much lower level of self-esteem but working through getting out of my SM has helped me grow to the point that I now KNOW one of the main "ingredients" needed for me to like someone is to know that they like me (preferably a lot!). This may not sound like a huge milestone to some - but to me, I understand the importance of this new realization. Whether I really find someone attractive (physically, in personality, etc) is not the only factor - their reciprocity of those same feelings IS a factor and a very important one. It feels like growing up, in a good way.
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Post by bballgirl on Jan 14, 2017 15:55:20 GMT -5
I told him I wanted more sex through the years once or twice a year I would suggest it but I wasn't going to beg him for it. That's not me!
Eventually I no longer wanted him at all. His lose!
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Post by beachguy on Jan 14, 2017 16:14:31 GMT -5
@geekgoddess, have we not all been quite traumatized by being rejected for so long by the one person in the world who is supposed to want us?
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Post by shamwow on Jan 14, 2017 16:19:26 GMT -5
I told him I wanted more sex through the years once or twice a year I would suggest it but I wasn't going to beg him for it. That's not me! Eventually I no longer wanted him at all. His lose! Agreed. When you have to plead for it and it is refused time after time and then you stop pleading for it, that is not counter refusal. It is a rational behavior to maintain your own sanity and self worth. |
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Post by greatcoastal on Jan 14, 2017 16:34:42 GMT -5
I told him I wanted more sex through the years once or twice a year I would suggest it but I wasn't going to beg him for it. That's not me! Eventually I no longer wanted him at all. His lose! Agreed. When you have to plead for it and it is refused time after time and then you stop pleading for it, that is not counter refusal. It is a rational behavior to maintain your own sanity and self worth. I've taken mine several steps further. No physical contact, and only the tiniest amount of polite concern, (like you would give a stranger) is necessary from my STBX toward me. After not being visited in the hospital, being cut off from our"shared" finances, and being threatened to call the law for a brief rubbing of elbows.....yea, minimal communication. |
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Post by baza on Jan 14, 2017 17:16:39 GMT -5
"The point is I am wondering who is to blame? " - you note.
You are. You are entirely to blame for this big fuck up.
Hang on, I've changed my mind. She is to entirely to blame for this big fuck up.
Sorry, changed my mind again. It is 32/68 your way.
Or maybe 22/78 her way.
Comes a time in ILIASM shitholes where it is irrelevant about who is right or wrong, who is blameable or blameless, who is at fault or who is not at fault, who is refuser or refused.
It's a big fuck up, and needs ending.
Who was right or wrong has become irrelevant.
Completely irrelevant.
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Post by GeekGoddess on Jan 14, 2017 17:28:31 GMT -5
@geekgoddess, have we not all been quite traumatized by being rejected for so long by the one person in the world who is supposed to want us? Yes. I had always had poor self-esteem from, like, the age of 13 or something - and I have "rebuilt" it multiple times. While that could seem Sisyphean in some ways, it also means I know that I can do it again. Toward the end of the SM and into the beginnings of my freedom, realizing that what I was experiencing was a PTSD type of phenomenon was very helpful to me. I knew then that there was something I could do about it (because it had a name). We have all been traumatized by the SM. And - many are still being traumatized daily. My hope for our jolly band is that the trauma stops. And that each of us can recover from it. |
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Post by thebaffledking on Jan 14, 2017 17:33:46 GMT -5
You need to escape this nightmare.
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Post by tamara68 on Jan 14, 2017 17:34:21 GMT -5
Up to around 13 years ago, I tried to initiate occasionally but not often. The last time 13 years ago, he told me that I needed to be a better wife first before sex would be an option again. That made me lose any interest in him and I have never initiated anything again. And he didn't either. Last year he touched my shoulder but I didn't respond happy and gratefully so he says now that I am turning him down. So - again - everything is my fault. Just read about DARVO (Deny-Attack-Reverse-Victim-Offender). that applies here as well shrink4men.com/2011/01/19/presto-change-o-darvo-deny-attack-and-reverse-victim-and-offender/ |
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Post by greatcoastal on Jan 14, 2017 17:40:02 GMT -5
"The point is I am wondering who is to blame? " - you note. You are. You are entirely to blame for this big fuck up. Hang on, I've changed my mind. She is to entirely to blame for this big fuck up. Sorry, changed my mind again. It is 32/68 your way. Or maybe 22/78 her way. Comes a time in ILIASM shitholes where it is irrelevant about who is right or wrong, who is blameable or blameless, who is at fault or who is not at fault, who is refuser or refused. It's a big fuck up, and needs ending. Who was right or wrong has become irrelevant. Completely irrelevant. I'm sure this has it's place, it always does! I just don't see it this time? I believe it is very important to know your actions are justified, and warranted. Getting "me too's 'from others does just that. That blame burden is tremendous, and needs lifting, in order for the ending, and the healing to begin. My therapist, had told us," you two are doing nothing but pointing at each other, and need to say nice things about each other". I told him " if you believe my honest, factual, daily, examples of continues manipulative control, and rejection, that gets countered by her total avoidance and lack of concern for any of it, is just finger pointing? then we are done here." "your going to hear crickets, theirs nothing nice to say about someone who has detached themselves." Then hearing,"you went above and beyond, and she put forth zero effort" made a huge difference in helping my path to recovery. Sorry, I respectfully dis-agree on the irrelevance of all that. It's a priceless lesson learned as I gain ground in finding joy in the future. |
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Post by baza on Jan 14, 2017 18:17:32 GMT -5
I think that blame has its' uses, initially helping you get to a point of righteous anger, which in turn might result in you doing something about your situation, but once that Rubicon has been crossed, blame ceases to have any relevance in the resolution process.
This ^^^^^ is a personal opinion and as such is worth jack shit.
If you are finding blaming to be useful, then that's great.
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