jgb
Junior Member
Posts: 32 
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Post by jgb on Jan 24, 2017 16:26:12 GMT -5
True, I suppose, although I don't recall suggesting giving up too soon was widespread here. My observation was that there were at least some here that sound as if they skipped the 'put yourself in their shoes' stage, altogether.
Like the whole range of reasons that sexless people have for being so...from the vindictive/manipulative to the blissfully exempt, so too is there an empathy spectrum. From 'none at all' to 'spent way too much time trying to fix the unfix-able'. If you are certain that you know who you are dealing with and that that person's arrow is clearly pointing to "malicious", then you would have my blessing to bail a week after the honeymoon.
I had a girlfriend in college with a raging case of vaginismus. We would fool around and she would be really into it, but, like clockwork, as soon as my c**k made an appearance, five minutes later, she was bawling. Poor girl...made me feel terrible. But, not as bad as it made her feel. Eventually we broke up. And, yes, part of it was because I was 19 and getting laid was highly important. I spent a lot of time consoling her, but, in hindsight, I probably made too many attempts to f**k her, as well. That story is probably apropos of nothing, but I think about her once in a while and wonder how I would handle something like that now.
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Post by beachguy on Jan 24, 2017 19:59:22 GMT -5
jgb , you probably dodged a bullet back in college. I've heard of so many cases of vaginismus associated with long term SMs that I figure it isn't the flu. I spent decades chasing mine, and now I know it was all hopeless and pointless. There are people that don't put up with our shit, but they got divorced after a more reasonable time and we never hear from them. I no longer see any honor pissing away decades trying to solve an insolvable problem. And in most cases I'm becoming more and more convinced our spouses simply don't like sex. I can point you to a huge room full of them, all trying to make their SMs work, but without engaging in any or much sex, and there isn't a damned thing their spouses can do about it except "compromise" to enforced celibacy. I wonder how many of their spouses spent decades trying to do the impossible. I know I'm a hard ass, but the fact is that there are two kinds of people in the world, those that deal with sexlessness quickly and efficiently, and those that don't.
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jgb
Junior Member
Posts: 32
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Post by jgb on Jan 24, 2017 21:17:47 GMT -5
I dunno...I suppose. Still, I can't shake my long held belief that there are always two sides to every story. When you read only one, and a bitter and angry one at that, there is nothing to go on. That girl I was with in college. I initiated the sex exactly once...the first time. Her doctor told her that there was no physical issue, that she "needed to relax". Which is the first time I realized that you can be a doctor and still be an idiot. After that first fiasco, which freaked me the fuck right out, I was really averse to initiating again. But she really wanted to. Felt being a virgin at her age (19) was a bad thing. So we kept trying. It was awful. I should have refused, but when you are 19 and a naked girl grabs your dick, you kind of go with it. She was, at a psychological level, at fault. But to blame? No.
Obviously I can't speak to individual cases. Who could except the people in them? But I can't imagine that in all but the most egregious cases, a little understanding is called for. In my own case, I can't (drugs), but setting that aside, I would. I miss it. But I wouldn't trade it for what I have. Just like I wouldn't trade it for my sanity (i.e. quitting the meds). But, and I can't emphasize this strongly enough...she is not to blame. She has never deceived me...she just doesn't experience concupiscence. I do. Still, at the end of the day...sexless marriage. and I will never be completely okay with that. Good with the bad...and all that. I find it hard to fathom that anyone can stack all the good on one side and a disappointing (or missing) sex life on the other...and conclude that it is no contest. Not to say that that is not the appropriate calculus for some situations (someone that is out and out deceitful and/or manipulative...then the good pile would be pretty damned small).
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Post by pfviento on Jan 25, 2017 1:11:40 GMT -5
JGB, you did mention something about a lot of posts using the term refuser feeling they are entitled to sex. That was a statement that probably could have been worded a bit better.
You went on to imply an assumed lack of empathy for their spouse. That argument cuts both ways when it comes to a sexless marriage.
I suspect early on many of us tried the empathy route and the "bacon scented candle" approach. It's the search for solutions that often brings people here.
You also may have missed that many marriages are failing because of more than just sex. The sex may be a symptom.
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Post by baza on Jan 25, 2017 1:23:14 GMT -5
Brother apochyrpha mad the point a few days ago.
One might think that - in "why" chasing - that one is involved in a heroic radical surgery to save the patient (the ILIASM shithole).
In fact, one is conducting an autopsy on an already deceased situation.
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Post by beachguy on Jan 25, 2017 5:05:39 GMT -5
jgb, it appears that you went into your marriage with your eyes open, marrying a woman that never had any sexual desire. You made your bed, you are lying in it. In that way, you're not the typical member here.
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Post by McRoomMate on Jan 25, 2017 8:13:29 GMT -5
Most people are shocked that I haven't had sex in 3.5 years. No hugs in 2 years. I haven't had sex where my husband pretended to be into it since I was 24 and I'm 31 now. Hugs. Maybe she can help you out. Me too - SM for over 10 years (Average sex 1 time per 9 to 18 months) - As of New Years I even stopped giving "symbolic" hugs or little kisses. She does not even initiate a hug. She even said "excuse me" the other day when she accidentally touched me. I am thinking a Therapist before any decisions are taken - I cannot take it anymore as is. |
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jgb
Junior Member
Posts: 32
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Post by jgb on Jan 25, 2017 8:34:47 GMT -5
JGB, you did mention something about a lot of posts using the term refuser feeling they are entitled to sex. That was a statement that probably could have been worded a bit better. You went on to imply an assumed lack of empathy for their spouse. That argument cuts both ways when it comes to a sexless marriage. I suspect early on many of us tried the empathy route and the "bacon scented candle" approach. It's the search for solutions that often brings people here. You also may have missed that many marriages are failing because of more than just sex. The sex may be a symptom. No, I am content with my wording. I stand by my belief that coming into any situation with a sense of entitlement is never going to help matters. And, also no in that I am assuming a lack of empathy...I am observing a lack of empathy. (here is where I would insert the normal disclaimer of 'some..not everyone', but Jesus...do I really need to keep saying that?) My question was how did you get there? Fairly? It is obvious that, while not every problem has a villain, a lot of them do. But even then, getting angry has never helped (me, at any rate). I never get angry, not because I am some sort of zen master, but because I cannot afford it. But the silver lining in avoiding anger because of the potential for inner damage is that I avoid the external damage as well. When you have reached the point of vitriol and name calling, the situation is most likely not salvageable. So I can never understand the propensity of (some!) people to rush there. Oh, and the fact that marriages are failing because of more than sexual problems is pretty damned obvious. But that is broadening the context of the discussion beyond its starting point...being sexless. |
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jgb
Junior Member
Posts: 32
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Post by jgb on Jan 25, 2017 8:37:25 GMT -5
jgb , it appears that you went into your marriage with your eyes open, marrying a woman that never had any sexual desire. You made your bed, you are lying in it. In that way, you're not the typical member here. I can see that. |
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Post by rejected101 on Jan 25, 2017 8:59:56 GMT -5
jgb , it appears that you went into your marriage with your eyes open, marrying a woman that never had any sexual desire. You made your bed, you are lying in it. In that way, you're not the typical member here. I can see that. I think this is the big issue here. |
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Post by Lithium92 on Jan 25, 2017 9:31:28 GMT -5
Ouch.
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Post by pfviento on Jan 25, 2017 21:39:44 GMT -5
JGB, you did mention something about a lot of posts using the term refuser feeling they are entitled to sex. That was a statement that probably could have been worded a bit better. You went on to imply an assumed lack of empathy for their spouse. That argument cuts both ways when it comes to a sexless marriage. I suspect early on many of us tried the empathy route and the "bacon scented candle" approach. It's the search for solutions that often brings people here. You also may have missed that many marriages are failing because of more than just sex. The sex may be a symptom. No, I am content with my wording. I stand by my belief that coming into any situation with a sense of entitlement is never going to help matters. And, also no in that I am assuming a lack of empathy...I am observing a lack of empathy. (here is where I would insert the normal disclaimer of 'some..not everyone', but Jesus...do I really need to keep saying that?) My question was how did you get there? Fairly? It is obvious that, while not every problem has a villain, a lot of them do. But even then, getting angry has never helped (me, at any rate). I never get angry, not because I am some sort of zen master, but because I cannot afford it. But the silver lining in avoiding anger because of the potential for inner damage is that I avoid the external damage as well. When you have reached the point of vitriol and name calling, the situation is most likely not salvageable. So I can never understand the propensity of (some!) people to rush there. Oh, and the fact that marriages are failing because of more than sexual problems is pretty damned obvious. But that is broadening the context of the discussion beyond its starting point...being sexless. There is a difference between some vs. Most. If you had used the word some originally you might have been better off. If you stand by it you are certainly welcome to that opinion. Refuser is a term used to describe the spouse in a sexless marriage. Stating that might be the reason for the sexless marriage is a bit over the top. If you are going to argue they are not entitled to sex fair enough. The uninterested party is not entitled to fidelity, empathy, or a stable marriage either. Vows cut both ways. Very few marriages here started sexless. If they had most would have probably not gotten married. I certainly would not have. |
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Post by lwoetin on Jan 25, 2017 23:47:05 GMT -5
As I said, I would never dream of leaving. I really love my wife. We have built a great life..we have two fantastic kids I could not be prouder of. My wife and I do everything together. Truth be told, I am probably too dependent on her.... The long and short of it is that this is a problem without a solution. I don't like it, but I am not going to blow up my life to try (and likely fail) to fix it. I can relate. But I wouldn't go as far as saying it has no solution. Maybe I am a fool (I prefer the term optimist) but I think a solution is possible. But as long as you can tolerate it, then it probably isn't worth risking your marriage. When you can't tolerate it, then you won't have a choice but to risk it all. Note: A solution is a happy solution (whether staying married or divorce) without excessive use of alcohol or drugs. Hopefully we all can learn and benefit from sharing our experiences here. Welcome to the forum. |
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jgb
Junior Member
Posts: 32
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Post by jgb on Jan 26, 2017 15:15:31 GMT -5
No, I am content with my wording. I stand by my belief that coming into any situation with a sense of entitlement is never going to help matters. And, also no in that I am assuming a lack of empathy...I am observing a lack of empathy. (here is where I would insert the normal disclaimer of 'some..not everyone', but Jesus...do I really need to keep saying that?) My question was how did you get there? Fairly? It is obvious that, while not every problem has a villain, a lot of them do. But even then, getting angry has never helped (me, at any rate). I never get angry, not because I am some sort of zen master, but because I cannot afford it. But the silver lining in avoiding anger because of the potential for inner damage is that I avoid the external damage as well. When you have reached the point of vitriol and name calling, the situation is most likely not salvageable. So I can never understand the propensity of (some!) people to rush there. Oh, and the fact that marriages are failing because of more than sexual problems is pretty damned obvious. But that is broadening the context of the discussion beyond its starting point...being sexless. There is a difference between some vs. Most. If you had used the word some originally you might have been better off. If you stand by it you are certainly welcome to that opinion. Refuser is a term used to describe the spouse in a sexless marriage. Stating that might be the reason for the sexless marriage is a bit over the top. If you are going to argue they are not entitled to sex fair enough. The uninterested party is not entitled to fidelity, empathy, or a stable marriage either. Vows cut both ways. Very few marriages here started sexless. If they had most would have probably not gotten married. I certainly would not have. Well... The phrase I used? "It seems to me that a lot of these..." I never used the term 'most'. I also never said that using the term "refuser" was the reason for a sexless marriage. I can't fathom what I could have said that gave you that. I said that if you are using a pejorative like that, its a pretty good sign that you are past fixing anything. I do think that if you approach anything with a sense of sexual entitlement, then you have pretty much eliminated any common ground to work from. But, I also don't think anyone is entitled to those other things you list. You have to earn those. You can't negotiate for them...at least not in any relationship I would want to be part of. I don't know of anyone who's marriage started sexless. Mine certainly didn't. |
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