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Post by novembercomingfire on Jan 16, 2017 13:04:55 GMT -5
Jgb - not sure why you are here then as both you and wife seem ok with the situation. So what's the problem? You will find just about all here think no sex is an unacceptable. Where did you get that idea? My conclusion was that there was no fix for this that would not involve me blowing up my life, which I do not think would work anyway. I am not okay with it. But, I have accepted it Understood here. Quite clearly. |
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Post by csl on Jan 16, 2017 14:34:45 GMT -5
Where did you get that idea? My conclusion was that there was no fix for this that would not involve me blowing up my life, which I do not think would work anyway. I am not okay with it. But, I have accepted it Understood here. Quite clearly. Sounds like a distinction without a difference. As long as the situation is tolerable, you'll tolerate. When it's not, you won't. ~ me |
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Post by Dan on Jan 16, 2017 15:32:24 GMT -5
... that was okay since it had been years before that anyway. Stopped her dead in her tracks. "you haven't had sex in ten years?" The look on her face made me want to leave immediately. The reason I read this thread was the title "I managed to shock my Psychiatrist". I think if you are seeing a therapist or psychiatrist that has been practicing for a few years there is DARN LITTLE that you can say to them that they haven't heard before ten-time worse. I wonder if you misread her reaction. OK, she was incredulous, but that seems like a GOOD thing to me. She seems to see this as "something of note". That sounds like that might be useful for you to know. I guess I'm saying so many of us in SMs have slid into it slowly, and need the gentle nudge -- or even smack upside the head -- that "no, it is not normal; a normal, healthy, mutually fulfilling sex life is NORMAL in a marriage; sexlessness it not". I, for one, hope you DO see her again. Her incredulity may mean she is more interested in working on this (for you/with you) than you realize. Maybe that is what you need. |
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jgb
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Post by jgb on Jan 17, 2017 11:12:17 GMT -5
... that was okay since it had been years before that anyway. Stopped her dead in her tracks. "you haven't had sex in ten years?" The look on her face made me want to leave immediately. The reason I read this thread was the title "I managed to shock my Psychiatrist". I think if you are seeing a therapist or psychiatrist that has been practicing for a few years there is DARN LITTLE that you can say to them that they haven't heard before ten-time worse. I wonder if you misread her reaction. OK, she was incredulous, but that seems like a GOOD thing to me. She seems to see this as "something of note". That sounds like that might be useful for you to know. I guess I'm saying so many of us in SMs have slid into it slowly, and need the gentle nudge -- or even smack upside the head -- that "no, it is not normal; a normal, healthy, mutually fulfilling sex life is NORMAL in a marriage; sexlessness it not". I, for one, hope you DO see her again. Her incredulity may mean she is more interested in working on this (for you/with you) than you realize. Maybe that is what you need. Oh, I doubt that she was really shocked per se. But, she was asking me a series of questions and I had just finished explaining that my parents were really good people, when she asked "...and how is your sex life?" I answered that I did not have one and that was the first time in a half dozen questions that she looked up from her pad. She had this 'Really?' look on her face. My worry was that this is going to be bigger topic than I really wanted it to be. Not the primary reason I am going. But, we'll see. I have another appointment tomorrow. The reason that I was reading this forum and posted what I did, was that I am also trying to deal with the lack of sex in my life. I am definitely not okay with it. With my mental 'problems', I find it very hard to take pleasure in...almost anything. And sex is supposed to be one of life's purest pleasures. In other words, something even I could enjoy. I do find it especially ironic that the treatment for depression, which can really mess with your own level of desire, are drugs that also destroy your sexual desire (and function). I would be really pissed about that... if I were still having sex. I don't see myself participating heavily in this forum, it was just a subject that interested me...coping with this. It does seem to me that a lot of people seem to react to it with far too much vitriol. These terms...like 'refuser', is that really helping matters? I have read some, but for every posting that even attempts to take a 'put yourself in their shoes' approach, there are five that seem to assume that not having sex is a purely spiteful act. |
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Post by beachguy on Jan 18, 2017 1:21:42 GMT -5
The reason that I was reading this forum and posted what I did, was that I am also trying to deal with the lack of sex in my life. I am definitely not okay with it. With my mental 'problems', I find it very hard to take pleasure in...almost anything. And sex is supposed to be one of life's purest pleasures. In other words, something even I could enjoy. I do find it especially ironic that the treatment for depression, which can really mess with your own level of desire, are drugs that also destroy your sexual desire (and function). I would be really pissed about that... if I were still having sex. I don't see myself participating heavily in this forum, it was just a subject that interested me...coping with this. It does seem to me that a lot of people seem to react to it with far too much vitriol. These terms...like 'refuser', is that really helping matters? I have read some, but for every posting that even attempts to take a 'put yourself in their shoes' approach, there are five that seem to assume that not having sex is a purely spiteful act. My wife fucked her way to a ring on her finger and then started refusing the day after the wedding. I *EARNED* the right to call her a refuser. |
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Post by novembercomingfire on Jan 18, 2017 9:00:01 GMT -5
The reason I read this thread was the title "I managed to shock my Psychiatrist". I think if you are seeing a therapist or psychiatrist that has been practicing for a few years there is DARN LITTLE that you can say to them that they haven't heard before ten-time worse. I wonder if you misread her reaction. OK, she was incredulous, but that seems like a GOOD thing to me. She seems to see this as "something of note". That sounds like that might be useful for you to know. I guess I'm saying so many of us in SMs have slid into it slowly, and need the gentle nudge -- or even smack upside the head -- that "no, it is not normal; a normal, healthy, mutually fulfilling sex life is NORMAL in a marriage; sexlessness it not". I, for one, hope you DO see her again. Her incredulity may mean she is more interested in working on this (for you/with you) than you realize. Maybe that is what you need. Oh, I doubt that she was really shocked per se. But, she was asking me a series of questions and I had just finished explaining that my parents were really good people, when she asked "...and how is your sex life?" I answered that I did not have one and that was the first time in a half dozen questions that she looked up from her pad. She had this 'Really?' look on her face. My worry was that this is going to be bigger topic than I really wanted it to be. Not the primary reason I am going. But, we'll see. I have another appointment tomorrow. The reason that I was reading this forum and posted what I did, was that I am also trying to deal with the lack of sex in my life. I am definitely not okay with it. With my mental 'problems', I find it very hard to take pleasure in...almost anything. And sex is supposed to be one of life's purest pleasures. In other words, something even I could enjoy. I do find it especially ironic that the treatment for depression, which can really mess with your own level of desire, are drugs that also destroy your sexual desire (and function). I would be really pissed about that... if I were still having sex. I don't see myself participating heavily in this forum, it was just a subject that interested me...coping with this. It does seem to me that a lot of people seem to react to it with far too much vitriol. These terms...like 'refuser', is that really helping matters? I have read some, but for every posting that even attempts to take a 'put yourself in their shoes' approach, there are five that seem to assume that not having sex is a purely spiteful act. As an anhedonic myself, i totally get this ... |
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Post by novembercomingfire on Jan 18, 2017 9:06:10 GMT -5
The reason that I was reading this forum and posted what I did, was that I am also trying to deal with the lack of sex in my life. I am definitely not okay with it. With my mental 'problems', I find it very hard to take pleasure in...almost anything. And sex is supposed to be one of life's purest pleasures. In other words, something even I could enjoy. I do find it especially ironic that the treatment for depression, which can really mess with your own level of desire, are drugs that also destroy your sexual desire (and function). I would be really pissed about that... if I were still having sex. I don't see myself participating heavily in this forum, it was just a subject that interested me...coping with this. It does seem to me that a lot of people seem to react to it with far too much vitriol. These terms...like 'refuser', is that really helping matters? I have read some, but for every posting that even attempts to take a 'put yourself in their shoes' approach, there are five that seem to assume that not having sex is a purely spiteful act. My wife fucked her way to a ring on her finger and then started refusing the day after the wedding. I *EARNED* the right to call her a refuser. Similar situation, and the refusing started immediately after the wedding. But i don't think my wife was looking for the ring. The ring was incidental. She wanted a relationship with someone that adored her enough to live without sex, because celibacy was what she wanted and would never admit, and also would be willing to pverlook all of the issues that may have led her to idealize celibacy so she would never have to address them. I feel like I also have earned the right to use the term "refuser," but it doesn't really help me to use it. And just because someone may not be in a relationship where sexlessness is used as a tool, doesn't in any way take away from the fact that there are manipulative and dishonest folk who force celibacy for selfish reasons. |
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Post by beachguy on Jan 18, 2017 9:18:56 GMT -5
My wife fucked her way to a ring on her finger and then started refusing the day after the wedding. I *EARNED* the right to call her a refuser. Similar situation, and the refusing started immediately after the wedding. But i don't think my wife was looking for the ring. The ring was incidental. She wanted a relationship with someone that adored her enough to live without sex, because celibacy was what she wanted and would never admit, and also would be willing to pverlook all of the issues that may have led her to idealize celibacy so she would never have to address them. I feel like I also have earned the right to use the term "refuser," but it doesn't really help me to use it. And just because someone may not be in a relationship where sexlessness is used as a tool, doesn't in any way take away from the fact that there are manipulative and dishonest folk who force celibacy for selfish reasons. Your wife married you under false pretenses. Everything else is a side show and a diversion (imho) |
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jgb
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Post by jgb on Jan 19, 2017 11:53:05 GMT -5
The reason that I was reading this forum and posted what I did, was that I am also trying to deal with the lack of sex in my life. I am definitely not okay with it. With my mental 'problems', I find it very hard to take pleasure in...almost anything. And sex is supposed to be one of life's purest pleasures. In other words, something even I could enjoy. I do find it especially ironic that the treatment for depression, which can really mess with your own level of desire, are drugs that also destroy your sexual desire (and function). I would be really pissed about that... if I were still having sex. I don't see myself participating heavily in this forum, it was just a subject that interested me...coping with this. It does seem to me that a lot of people seem to react to it with far too much vitriol. These terms...like 'refuser', is that really helping matters? I have read some, but for every posting that even attempts to take a 'put yourself in their shoes' approach, there are five that seem to assume that not having sex is a purely spiteful act. My wife fucked her way to a ring on her finger and then started refusing the day after the wedding. I *EARNED* the right to call her a refuser. Then it is definitely time to bail. I've no doubt that there are plenty of deceitful people out there, men and women, who manipulate their spouse with sex. I would not put up with that for two damned seconds. The fact that they would view that behavior as an option is a deal killer. Hell, if you view your spouse as someone who was capable of that, that is a deal killer. However, I bet there are a number of people who can't see past their own anger and frustration to see if their spouse has a genuine problem/reason for not wanting sex. Something physical or mental...doesn't matter. If such an issue exists and it is real (even if only to them) and the 'denied' spouse ignores it and takes a 'Your problem is bullshit!, I'm not getting laid!" attitude, then it would seem to me that the aggrieved spouse is every bit as responsible for the problem. In my case, there is no responsible party. My wife has never made a secret of her lack of sexual desire. Neither has she every placed an embargo on sex (She has, however, turned me down more often than was the case when we were younger). It is her very lack of desire that has become a turn off for me and that is my problem, not hers. Nobody can demand desire from someone else. The fact that my medications have made me incapable is just a wrinkle. F**king someone who is just doing it to make me happy, doesn't make me happy. Makes me feel downright creepy. I suspect that desire could be cultivated in those that are without it. Medical treatments, hormones, therapy, something like that. But what if she doesn't 'desire' desire? You can't grow it out of nothing. And I just can't bring myself to blame her for that. |
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Post by beachguy on Jan 19, 2017 17:40:36 GMT -5
My wife fucked her way to a ring on her finger and then started refusing the day after the wedding. I *EARNED* the right to call her a refuser. Then it is definitely time to bail. I've no doubt that there are plenty of deceitful people out there, men and women, who manipulate their spouse with sex. I would not put up with that for two damned seconds. The fact that they would view that behavior as an option is a deal killer. Hell, if you view your spouse as someone who was capable of that, that is a deal killer. However, I bet there are a number of people who can't see past their own anger and frustration to see if their spouse has a genuine problem/reason for not wanting sex. Something physical or mental...doesn't matter. If such an issue exists and it is real (even if only to them) and the 'denied' spouse ignores it and takes a 'Your problem is bullshit!, I'm not getting laid!" attitude, then it would seem to me that the aggrieved spouse is every bit as responsible for the problem. In my case, there is no responsible party. My wife has never made a secret of her lack of sexual desire. Neither has she every placed an embargo on sex (She has, however, turned me down more often than was the case when we were younger). It is her very lack of desire that has become a turn off for me and that is my problem, not hers. Nobody can demand desire from someone else. The fact that my medications have made me incapable is just a wrinkle. F**king someone who is just doing it to make me happy, doesn't make me happy. Makes me feel downright creepy. I suspect that desire could be cultivated in those that are without it. Medical treatments, hormones, therapy, something like that. But what if she doesn't 'desire' desire? You can't grow it out of nothing. And I just can't bring myself to blame her for that. I did bail. You entered the thread saying no one put themselves in their spouses shoes. I replied with a very short story explaining that I haven't figured out a scenario, sitting in her shoes, that does not include DECEIT. My deal is very different than your deal. You seem to be disparaging my use of "refuser" by pretty much ignoring my deal and why I feel justified in calling her a refuser by broadly generalizing things. "My wife has never made a secret of her lack of sexual desire." Well, my wife did make it a secret. In fact her last word on the subject: "I had my reasons (for 30 years of SM including 15 years of total celibacy) but I'll never tell you". How's that for a kick in the gut ? And I'm supposed to sympathize with her problem, whatever it is, that she kept a secret for 30 years? I'm left to speculate and my conclusion is that she fucked her way into a marriage that she wanted so badly she fast tracked me into it, never intending to be the sexual wife she represented herself as, starting on the first date. There are many other reasons I came to that conclusion that I won't elaborate here. I stand by my original assertions. |
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jgb
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Post by jgb on Jan 20, 2017 20:00:38 GMT -5
Then it is definitely time to bail. I've no doubt that there are plenty of deceitful people out there, men and women, who manipulate their spouse with sex. I would not put up with that for two damned seconds. The fact that they would view that behavior as an option is a deal killer. Hell, if you view your spouse as someone who was capable of that, that is a deal killer. However, I bet there are a number of people who can't see past their own anger and frustration to see if their spouse has a genuine problem/reason for not wanting sex. Something physical or mental...doesn't matter. If such an issue exists and it is real (even if only to them) and the 'denied' spouse ignores it and takes a 'Your problem is bullshit!, I'm not getting laid!" attitude, then it would seem to me that the aggrieved spouse is every bit as responsible for the problem. In my case, there is no responsible party. My wife has never made a secret of her lack of sexual desire. Neither has she every placed an embargo on sex (She has, however, turned me down more often than was the case when we were younger). It is her very lack of desire that has become a turn off for me and that is my problem, not hers. Nobody can demand desire from someone else. The fact that my medications have made me incapable is just a wrinkle. F**king someone who is just doing it to make me happy, doesn't make me happy. Makes me feel downright creepy. I suspect that desire could be cultivated in those that are without it. Medical treatments, hormones, therapy, something like that. But what if she doesn't 'desire' desire? You can't grow it out of nothing. And I just can't bring myself to blame her for that. I did bail. You entered the thread saying no one put themselves in their spouses shoes. I replied with a very short story explaining that I haven't figured out a scenario, sitting in her shoes, that does not include DECEIT. My deal is very different than your deal. You seem to be disparaging my use of "refuser" by pretty much ignoring my deal and why I feel justified in calling her a refuser by broadly generalizing things. "My wife has never made a secret of her lack of sexual desire." Well, my wife did make it a secret. In fact her last word on the subject: "I had my reasons (for 30 years of SM including 15 years of total celibacy) but I'll never tell you". How's that for a kick in the gut ? And I'm supposed to sympathize with her problem, whatever it is, that she kept a secret for 30 years? I'm left to speculate and my conclusion is that she fucked her way into a marriage that she wanted so badly she fast tracked me into it, never intending to be the sexual wife she represented herself as, starting on the first date. There are many other reasons I came to that conclusion that I won't elaborate here. I stand by my original assertions. Then I apologize. But, I didn't mean you in particular...in fact I didn't mean you at all. The term is one I have never encountered before...part of the lexicon of a small group, I suppose. Reading through some of these postings, I have gotten the impression that the term isn't used positively...not even impartially. Strictly a derogatory term. I have read a lot of posts using this term that are clearly written by (mostly) men who can't get past their own sense of entitlement. That being said, I have zero patience for people who lie to me. Do that, and I have no interest in your side anymore. She concealed her lack of desire for 30 years? You call her whatever the f**k you want. Won't get any argument from me. I would probably call her worse than that. |
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Post by beachguy on Jan 21, 2017 2:49:49 GMT -5
I did bail. You entered the thread saying no one put themselves in their spouses shoes. I replied with a very short story explaining that I haven't figured out a scenario, sitting in her shoes, that does not include DECEIT. My deal is very different than your deal. You seem to be disparaging my use of "refuser" by pretty much ignoring my deal and why I feel justified in calling her a refuser by broadly generalizing things. "My wife has never made a secret of her lack of sexual desire." Well, my wife did make it a secret. In fact her last word on the subject: "I had my reasons (for 30 years of SM including 15 years of total celibacy) but I'll never tell you". How's that for a kick in the gut ? And I'm supposed to sympathize with her problem, whatever it is, that she kept a secret for 30 years? I'm left to speculate and my conclusion is that she fucked her way into a marriage that she wanted so badly she fast tracked me into it, never intending to be the sexual wife she represented herself as, starting on the first date. There are many other reasons I came to that conclusion that I won't elaborate here. I stand by my original assertions. Then I apologize. But, I didn't mean you in particular...in fact I didn't mean you at all. The term is one I have never encountered before...part of the lexicon of a small group, I suppose. Reading through some of these postings, I have gotten the impression that the term isn't used positively...not even impartially. Strictly a derogatory term. I have read a lot of posts using this term that are clearly written by (mostly) men who can't get past their own sense of entitlement. That being said, I have zero patience for people who lie to me. Do that, and I have no interest in your side anymore. She concealed her lack of desire for 30 years? You call her whatever the f**k you want. Won't get any argument from me. I would probably call her worse than that. If you think people here have a sense of entitlement, then you must not believe there is ANY expectation for sex within a marriage. If that is correct, then you must think that enforced celibacy is just AOK? If you were not addressing me, then perhaps you should not quote my post in your reply? You can use any word or short phrase you want in place of "refuser". It will sound equally derogatory given the nature of what we are dealing with here. Me thinks. Enforced celibacy is what it is, and it's not pretty, and it's not warm and fuzzy and loving. I fail to see the need to be PC about it. Just MHO of course. |
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jgb
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Post by jgb on Jan 21, 2017 17:35:34 GMT -5
I was just adding to the end of the post...that I started. And you are putting words in my mouth. I said there appeared to be "some" people here with that attitude. It would be naive to assume that every sexless marriage has a villain..and that it is always the person who doesn't want sex. It is self evident that the issue runs the gamut from deceitful, vindictive "refusers" to people who have genuine medical or psychological barriers to sexual desire. Some (some!) of these post read like 'if I was this person's spouse, I wouldn't want to f**k them either'. If a guy treats his wife like shit 23 hours a day and expects her to be waiting in lingerie afterwards, then she might be refusing sex, but he is the reason. I would agree that there is and should be an expectation of sex in any marriage. But, expectation is not the same thing as an inalienable right.
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Post by shamwow on Jan 21, 2017 18:25:26 GMT -5
It might not be an inalienable right but if you want to put a legalistic slant on it, it is breech of contract.
The remedy for such a breach is fairly well documented and common. It is known as "divorce"
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Post by pfviento on Jan 23, 2017 21:22:09 GMT -5
I would guess that most people finding this forum did not automatically just give up on their spouse without trying to chase the why and fix it.
In fact many spend years or decades trying to fix the problem.
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