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Post by callisto on Jan 3, 2017 15:10:26 GMT -5
Dear All,
Well, we've made it into 2017...
My plan (like many others) was to wait until the festive period was over and have final discussion in which I state that I am no longer willing to relinquish my sexuality.
Husband can either tacitly agree with me having an intimate male friend and we will continue to care for each other, live together as spouses/ companions/ financial partners or if he does not agree then I will have to leave the house and marriage; I hoped we could think, 'out the box' - not divorcing but living areas of our life independently- a thing we do anyway; all he needs to do is say, 'Yes ' .
Big problem has just arisen (another) which I have thought about in the abstract but now have reason to feel extreme caution.
My husband is bipolar and this illness has seen him in and out of hospital since the age of 17 (now he is 58). He came off meds and has been 'self-managing' for a few years.
He cannot take a lot of stress and suffered hospitalisation on both previous marital breakdowns though when he is well he is unflappable and can cope with extremely tough situations.
He has recently not been sleeping ( a flag) and this evening he remarked how he loathed this time of year and that he felt the breath of, 'the black dog' close by and that I needed to know, be aware of this. He never, ever in our 13 years together has uttered this, even preceding episodes so I need to take it seriously.
I do not think he is saying this disingenuously because he senses anything ( I know some of you may be sceptical) but I can tell he is very slightly flickering upwards. He keeps talking of plans, holiday to farflung places and next Christmas. He appears to have chosen to forget all about my repeated efforts to introduce my need to be free of celibacy one way or another.
BTW He will NOT go to doctors - anyone who has experience of BPD mania will know it's like juggling with oiled rattlesnakes.
If I go forth with my intention I will risk his sanity as well as his perception of me which will traverse from loving wife to evil incarnate. He may well make rash decisions in a rush of mania and listen to no advice. I love him and care for him and don't want to be the stressor that sends him over the edge but I will not relinquish my remaining sexual years. It saddens me deeply to think of doing this to him when I should be supporting him in his illness.
Arghhh
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Post by bballgirl on Jan 3, 2017 15:17:49 GMT -5
If I were in your shoes I would explore your sexuality in a discreet way.
I really hope your H gets to feeling better soon!
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Post by DryCreek on Jan 3, 2017 15:20:07 GMT -5
callisto, what you describe certainly doesn't sound safe to be adding a competing male interest to the mix. It could yield some very rash, possibly dangerous, reactions. From a safety perspective, it seems prudent to stay, keep your head down, and strive to manage his condition. Or make a clean break with a lot of distance. But staying and adding a volatile dynamic to the environment seems very hazardous -- either to his mental stability, or his tolerance of your actions.
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Post by shamwow on Jan 3, 2017 15:38:03 GMT -5
callisto , what you describe certainly doesn't sound safe to be adding a competing male interest to the mix. It could yield some very rash, possibly dangerous, reactions. From a safety perspective, it seems prudent to stay, keep your head down, and strive to manage his condition. Or make a clean break with a lot of distance. But staying and adding a volatile dynamic to the environment seems very hazardous -- either to his mental stability, or his tolerance of your actions. Reading the post, I was thinking exactly the same thing. |
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Post by baza on Jan 3, 2017 16:19:45 GMT -5
It is unfortunate that mental illness afflicts people.
But it does.
It is unfortunate that some mental illnesses also badly effect people close to the person with the mental illness.
But it does.
It is unfortunate that people can be so affected and so damaged that they are impossible to live with.
But that happens.
It is unfortunate that some people are damaged beyond repair.
But it's a fact.
Sister callisto.
If you dumped this bloke I wouldn't blame you one bit.
If you dumped this bloke, I wouldn't think any less of you for so doing.
He has already cut a trail of destruction through two prior marriages apparently, I can't see much point in you "going down with the ship" with #3.
In fact, I think for you to forego the opportunity to have a full and satisfying life would be criminal, and disrespectful to yourself.
A waste of a precious person. That would serve no worthwhile purpose at all.
You have well paid your dues, there is nothing for you to gain by flogging this deceased equine any further.
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Post by shamwow on Jan 3, 2017 16:26:00 GMT -5
I always feel like I'm reading haiku when I'm reading baza's posts. I like Haiku.
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Post by Pinkberry on Jan 4, 2017 2:17:00 GMT -5
callisto , what you describe certainly doesn't sound safe to be adding a competing male interest to the mix. It could yield some very rash, possibly dangerous, reactions. From a safety perspective, it seems prudent to stay, keep your head down, and strive to manage his condition. Or make a clean break with a lot of distance. But staying and adding a volatile dynamic to the environment seems very hazardous -- either to his mental stability, or his tolerance of your actions. What is the reasonable expectation for him coming down from a manic episode, time wise? Not always, but many people with BPD have cycles that are similar in length. Of course, this black dog he speaks of may indicate a much grander scale of mania than you have happened to see in the last 13 years. I think safety needs to be your number one concern. Even without a new lover in the picture, mania is dangerous to those standing nearby. Many people will go into a mania that can only be medically managed and will have no recollection of what they did during that period. I think it's wise to have a safety plan and to look up involuntary commitment to mental health facilities in your state/territory. Don't assume that you'll be able to handle a manic episode, particularly when things between the two of you have been going downhill. |
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Post by Rhapsodee on Jan 4, 2017 2:39:39 GMT -5
callisto . My 23 year old son is bipolar 1. The breathing of the black dog. It's interesting that my son describes the same thing when he is stressed. He has learned that it isn't real, just a manifestation of the stress. Having a child with bipolar is difficult. I can't imagine the challenges of a spouse with bipolar. My son has shown some amazing resilience. I'm sure your husband has done the same. Life is difficult for them. It's a constant battle to separate and identify all the things that are happening in their heads. Is this really what I'm feeling or is it the illness? Is this loud breathing something terrifying and real or is it the illness? I really hope you are able to find the support you need to help yourself.
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Post by wewbwb on Jan 4, 2017 9:01:54 GMT -5
My heart goes out to you.
It seems to me that all you have available to you are bad options.
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Post by callisto on Jan 4, 2017 15:11:06 GMT -5
Thank you all so very much for your support and considerate concern for my situation, in some points you brought tears to my eyes.
Bipolar is a tricky beast, one of the ironies of the illness in ILIASM context is that when someone is manic they can become hyper- sexual- supposedly..
I had (rather desperately ) thought that this might be the one bonus when my husband escalated into mania! I remember thinking he must find me truly repulsive as even in a manic phase he showed not a jot of interest physically in me.
Ah well, the idea of caring whether he finds me alluring is ancient history as I gave up all hope of that in 2008. Jeez- nine years ago.
Regarding the current situation I do not fear for my safety but for H's happiness and welfare. I care for him and don't want to dispatch him to deal with his wild dogs alone. Conversely I don't think I can wait any longer to have the
end-to-my-celibacy conversation.
He will probably tell me to sling my hook, that he's had enough of me whinging about it, that he's done his best to provide me with happiness (which in his eyes he has). I need to gird myself to deal with what I expect to be dismissive hostility.
Tonight he has been talking about buying a new house together and going on a luxury holiday to a far-flung part of the world. I feel sad, treacherous and rather like, a shit.
His notion of buying a bigger property will soon be matched with my reality of being lucky to find a room let alone a whole flat but it feels worth it for sexual liberation!
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Post by RexCorvus on Jan 4, 2017 17:32:52 GMT -5
callisto you have my sympathy and electronic ((HUGS)) for such a despairing situation. I do not mean to belittle the painful situation. I have no experience with BPD/Manic Depression, and it may just be my lack of knowledge, but I find it extremely fascinating that both callisto husband and Rhapsodee son describe it as a “Black Dog”. What adds to this fascination is that Winston Churchill also referred to it as a “Black Dog”. I quickly found online an articles written about this phenomenon. ‘Black dog’ as a metaphor for depression: a brief history In English folklore (16th century) The black dog is associated with the devil but its associations with depression can be found in the poetry of the Roman poet Horace (c. 40BC) and Appollonius (c. 1st century AD)… Sorry my mind works like this and can go down rabbit holes. RC
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Post by callisto on Jan 4, 2017 17:48:57 GMT -5
RC
Yes, my husband is well acquainted with the Churchillian
associations of the phrase. It is a superb visceral image, the sensation of a hard-eyed panting presence -something sinister creeping within one's psyche.
Can almost see the mists swirling into the darkness..
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Post by Rhapsodee on Jan 4, 2017 19:10:42 GMT -5
callisto you have my sympathy and electronic ((HUGS)) for such a despairing situation. I do not mean to belittle the painful situation. I have no experience with BPD/Manic Depression, and it may just be my lack of knowledge, but I find it extremely fascinating that both callisto husband and Rhapsodee son describe it as a “Black Dog”. What adds to this fascination is that Winston Churchill also referred to it as a “Black Dog”. I quickly found online an articles written about this phenomenon. ‘Black dog’ as a metaphor for depression: a brief history In English folklore (16th century) The black dog is associated with the devil but its associations with depression can be found in the poetry of the Roman poet Horace (c. 40BC) and Appollonius (c. 1st century AD)… Sorry my mind works like this and can go down rabbit holes. RC That is amazing. I was surprised that callisto husband mentioned the breathing of the black dog. We knew our son was different. He was terrified of a great many things, especially anything supernatural in context. We steered him away from any mention of Satan or demons. He knew nothing about the Bible. As it is he doesn't identify the black dog as a real demon, just as part of his illness. If he did think he was being pursued by demons I doubt he would be able to function. |
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Post by dancingbear70 on Jan 4, 2017 19:26:17 GMT -5
callisto I'm so sorry for your situation. My experience with bipolar is only through extended family, and that is hard! A couple of points you made worry me for you. First is that you are asking him for agreement in outsourcing. You will give him information that could be very dangerous to you and your situation. And from my limited experience, agreements are always subject to change as the bipolar manifests itself in different ways. Second, he refuses medical care and medication. As it happens, bipolar came up in my last therapy session as a family member is in the midst of an extreme manic episode. The therapist was very insistent that medications have improved so much that keeping up to date of treatment was essential. Information from just a few years ago is outdated. I hope you can get him back in a doctor's care. Stay strong! I wish you the best of luck.
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Post by callisto on Jan 4, 2017 19:49:53 GMT -5
Thanks Dancing Bear,
I either have to get him to at least tacitly agree to AP (for complicated reasons ) or alternatively I will leave the marriage. If I stay with H as he would like- continue as we have been for the last 13 years and I don't have a lover I WILL be celibate for the rest of my life. Fact.
It is now at the stage- he agrees to a lover / my rights as a human being to have a physical relationship or I am out of the door.
He is more stubborn than an ox, there is no way I will convince him to do, think or be anything that he doesn't want - you have more chance of persuading the earth to stand still than to get my H to do anything he doesn't want to do including taking meds or seeing a doctor.
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