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Post by wewbwb on Dec 29, 2016 19:56:23 GMT -5
I believe you may want to consider this.
Would you be trying to move away from something, or moving towards something?
You have a special needs child. Regardless of what happens, your wife will always be in your life.
(Unless you choose to not be with your child)
Personally, I would consider moving, but there are some unanswered questions.
Extended family on either side?
Friends?
Do the play a role?
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Post by unmatched on Dec 31, 2016 11:11:48 GMT -5
There is no 'best' choice here. You have to do what is best for your kids, and also weigh up what impact it might have on you and/or your wife if you do or don't end up splitting up. There are just too many variables for you ever to know that you did the right thing. And you are never going to feel good with this massive sword hanging over your head.
The only suggestion I have is if your AP withdrawing makes things clearer for you then it might be a good thing that she is gone. I know it helps having options and having an emotional safety net, but if you can find a way to decide about your marriage completely independently of whether somebody else is on the horizon or not, then I suspect you will end up making a better decision. It is great to be reassured that there are other woman out there and that some of them might be a much better sexual/emotional fit than your current wife, but leaving (or not leaving) is for you.
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Post by lyn on Dec 31, 2016 12:55:43 GMT -5
Thanks, unmatched. Another friend told me the same thing. If I can untangle the emotional aspect of it, yup, it's certainly clearer. The untangling is just hard still. My divorced friends all tell me how much freer they feel, streaks of creativity, joy and a burden being lifted. All I see so far is disappointment that I'm choosing a plan B and will have to deal with the outcome. Seems like choosing divorce is basically choosing a diminished set of options and living with the disappointment that the person I chose didn't choose me back. Choosing divorce @earthhorse is hard and does suck big time, even if it's intellectually the best choice. But then, we go having these damn feelings that can interfere with this rational, intelligent choice that we make for ourselves. It's probably the hardest, best, and worst choice you'll ever have to make. No one is saying you have to make this decision today either. It sounds as if your wife still treats you well just won't sleep with you. Based on what I've experienced, and what many others in our situation have experienced, you still may have a little time ("little time" could be weeks, months, years) where you two treat each other decently. This side of the marriage will, however inevitably start going down hill - and it can snowball very quickly as you begin to lose your resolve and tolerance for being abused emotionally by your spouse - If you can keep up the facade for a while, consider making the move, get your kid(s) settled in school, rent an affordable place (that the wife will be able to afford after your exit), get started in your job, make new friends, slowly start extricating yourself from her. Since you have friends/family in OH already, a support network is partially in place for you or her (hopefully even the both of you) after you do split. Whatever you do, if it is possible at all, make sure your wife finds a real job (sounds like she has a career now). Just to help off-shoot the income disparity that you mentioned. Not sure who will have physical custody, but just be prepared to pay a bit for your freedom. It's also for the kids of course. Not sure on the length of your marriage but doubt the alimony would go on too long since she is working. An attorney can help you sort this out of course. You could probably do a phone or skype consult with one in OH to get the ins and outs. (I'd consult in CA too). Sorry about the other lady also, but sounds like she probably has a lot of baggage (don't we all). Don't ever forgot that you are a uniquely amazing man with a lot of love and kindness to offer - you DESERVE love, affection, a woman who WANTS to have sex with you. |
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Post by beachguy on Dec 31, 2016 13:03:54 GMT -5
lyn is very correct. There is no reason to believe your marriage won't go totally to shit, perhaps sooner than later. Sexless marriages don't survive. That is embodied in all the stories here. Living a sexless Hell is far worse than the disappointment of a failed marriage. And while the disappointment will fade over time, an SM Hell only gets worse, it never fades until you get out.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2016 15:11:09 GMT -5
Agree - make wifey get a real job. If you let her stay home on Facebook and Pinterest, or working mommy hours, you may have to pay money to her for the rest of your life.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2017 16:06:00 GMT -5
@earthhorse , I'm sorry she won't work with you. To paraphrase what wewbwb told me in another thread, 'you are unhappy and she is unwilling to address it, what is left?' That's the point I'm at too. H has refused all counseling, for himself, for us. He makes only the same efforts towards the marriage he's made since day 1. He pays all the bills (for now - I'll be back to work soon), does dishes, and helps with the kids. He will not talk to me. He will not have sex with me. He will not stop drinking. He will not apologize for some of the nasty things he has said and done. He will not relate to me in any meaningful way. Paying the bills and helping with the kids is something, I have to give him credit for that - for being a great provider and a good dad. But I'm seeking a relationship. I need to be talked to. I need someone who cares what I did today. Who is interested in me for me. Who wants to hold me at night. Who wants intimacy, physical and emotional. In my case, I've come to believe that my H simply is not capable of intimacy. To get what I want/need would be like squeezing blood from a turnip. It's never going to happen. My task has been to understand him as he is, to realize and forgive him for being unable to love me the way I need him to, and now, to move on with love. Easy, right?  We're working on it. It's a slow process, but I'm determined to have peace between us and to release each other on to greener pastures in 2018. Could you and wife talk frankly about all of this? That you love her, she loves you, but you're not a match? Or, could you make a pact to move, keep the marriage for a few years until everyone is settled in the new schools, and then reevaluate? In your mind, reevaluate might mean divorce, but it's at least an olive branch you could give her for now. I'm so impressed with you emotionally-literate men on here. And men who can cry? My favorite! I'm serious. Best wishes to you. I think you're fighting the good fight, however it ends. |
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Post by baza on Jan 2, 2017 17:34:39 GMT -5
This bit Brother EarthHorse - "I told her last night, literally sobbing, how much it hurt to be totally ignored in this area. Feelings of loneliness, isolation, rejection. She just looked at me. Just looked. I told her that if the person you love comes to you and says, "I'm not happy in our marriage. I need this to change or I have to leave." and they don't do anything about it, they're essentially showing that they don't care. More blank stares. Like I'm challenging her"
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You HAVE challenged her.
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And her blank and unresponsive position has effectively called your challenge out, and put the ball firmly back in your court.
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If you say words along the lines - "change or I have to leave." - you better be ready and prepared to deliver.
If you back off now, you'll shred your cred, and that will put you backwards by months.
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Post by greatcoastal on Jan 2, 2017 17:47:24 GMT -5
Your 3rd sentence said it all. W TOLD me that she will not relocate if I am seeking a divorce.
She set a firm , one sided, selfish boundary. With a threat. The words, terms, thoughts, commitment that goes with a marriage are off on some distant planet with her.
This sounds like a strong tipping point for you, "a gift in disguise" your wife sounds like someone who will always be a self seeker, the only purpose a relationship will ever be for her is what she can get out of it.
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Post by unmatched on Jan 2, 2017 20:07:18 GMT -5
@earthhorse in a bizarre way this is a really positive step. She has said clearly that if you are likely to get divorced she doesn't want to find herself doing it on her own in a new state. I must admit I can understand that - it would be hard to start a new separate life with no support. And clearly she sees it as a realistic possibility, which has to be a good thing. You have also told her and shown her unequivocally how you feel about the state of your marriage.
It sounds like you have some trust that she is not completely sociopathic and manipulative, and is not deliberately going to make plans to string you along as best she can. If that is the case, then I would give it a day or two. Sometimes that kind of blank response is like a kind of paralysis - 'Oh fuck this is too much to deal with and I have no idea how to respond right now.' Give it a bit of time to settle into her brain and for her to come to terms with how you feel and how she feels and what the likely consequences of her possible next steps might be. So go back to her in a day or two and see how she feels about it then. If she just can't relate to how you feel, then you are never going to have the marriage that you want. If she can relate to it but doesn't feel it herself, then you are never going to have the marriage you want. If she can relate to it but is terrified then you are in the awkward position of trying to find out whether she is serious about making changes and trying to work with that without ignoring your own needs.
Either way, it seems like things are getting real.
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Post by greatcoastal on Jan 2, 2017 20:27:50 GMT -5
That blank stare can also be DARVO. A manipulative avoidance. Cleverly throwing it right back at you, a "not my problem" approach.
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Post by lyn on Jan 2, 2017 21:57:17 GMT -5
That stare. Oh @earthhorse that stare is like a punch in the gut. I would rather have complete honesty - like , "I never want to have sex with you again" instead of that friggin stare. That stare - I've seen it - been on the receiving end of it with tears streaming down my face. Please protect yourself - eternal optimism suggested giving her a few days to register what You've said. If in a few days time she's not showing SOME signs of empathy..... of willingness to work on this, then, it's probably not going to happen. I'm sorry - what a day  |
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Post by unmatched on Jan 3, 2017 3:13:01 GMT -5
@earthhorse my wife is very similar to what you are describing. She kind of gets what I am feeling but she is terrified of intimacy and emotion in all forms. She is not very affectionate, very rarely gets turned on (alcohol helps sometimes, but that doesn't necessarily leave me feeling great...), she is scared of anger, hates confrontation and would generally like to avoid any of the messy parts of being alive wherever possible. We got to pretty much where you are last Christmas, and actually decided to split up briefly before she backtracked. We have been in counselling for about 9 months and things are moving, but very, very slowly. (From my perspective anyway!) I can report we had sex three times in December, two of which were better than starfish sex but not exactly earth-moving. The third was hot but she was pretty drunk at the time. She is trying to be more affectionate, trying to be more intimate. She hasn't got as far as trying to be actually sexual - she is not much for flirting or maintaining any kind of ongoing sexual awareness of each other - but you never know, we might get there. And it is very contingent upon outside circumstances - anything stressful or hectic and she pulls back into her shell pretty quickly. So I don't feel terribly confident at this point that we are going to achieve substantial change, or that any changes will necessarily be sustainable, or that any significant life event that comes along in the next 1, 5, 10 years might not wipe it all out overnight. But she is trying and I still love her and I can see a possibility there that I don't want to walk away from. For my part, I am just focusing on me. I am doing a lot of yoga and meditation, getting fitter and happier and pouring myself into the things that are important to me. I don't know where we will end up. I have a feeling that this year is going to be a 'change' year of some kind or other, but for now as long as there is some kind of genuine movement and increasing connection then I am happy to go with it.
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Post by unmatched on Jan 3, 2017 19:25:57 GMT -5
unmatched , you described my wife exactly. Alcohol used to be the inhibitor, and I had the same reaction--made me feel sad that someone had to be drunk to want me. Looking back, it was definitely the line that seemed to grease the wheels of the sex machine for us. Ironically, this has all caused me to curb my alcohol intake. I can get argumentative when I drink, so Ive since scaled back a lot. Now drunk sex isn't really an option. I See her lack of desire to connect with people in person being a direct result of her over earjngnparents combined with a few formative lousy sexual experiences (noncollaborative/dare rape or unplanned pregnancy). That's a hard place to come back from. I do still love her and will stick with her if she realizes that she wants intimacy with me. That's the big unknown. She doesn't like where things are at for her, but she's also not in a hurry to actually work on herself. Admittedly, self work is painful and slow. Still waiting for her to decide what she really wants. It is frustrating, isn't it? I can see lots of good reasons from my wife's upbringing why she is the way she is. But she has lived with me for nearly 20 years too! You can't just stop growing at age 21 and decide that is who you are going to be for the rest of your life. (Well, clearly you can, but it makes no sense to me...) |
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Post by DryCreek on Jan 3, 2017 20:16:04 GMT -5
It is frustrating, isn't it? I can see lots of good reasons from my wife's upbringing why she is the way she is. But she has lived with me for nearly 20 years too! You can't just stop growing at age 21 and decide that is who you are going to be for the rest of your life. (Well, clearly you can, but it makes no sense to me...) Boy, you're not kidding. When she's been with you for over half her life... to still be paying for a scar someone else may have inflicted 30 years ago sucks. **I am not that person!** |
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Post by Pinkberry on Jan 4, 2017 2:29:09 GMT -5
Your son's needs have to come first. There is no benefit to getting divorced in your current area, even with a possible love interest. The problem with getting divorced there is that your alimony/child support would be sky high and there would be no benefit to your children staying there, assuming you get divorced.
Moving for a better job and better schools is a legitimate reason to move. That will be two more things settled in your life. If you end up getting a divorce after that, so be it.
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