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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2016 14:17:14 GMT -5
Here is some background: I moved out at the end of February mainly because of the 6 years of celibate marriage, but also because of W's verbal abuse. In July, she told me that she was very sorry that she had caused the celibacy, and that insulting my penis was wrong. Based on this, I agreed to counseling. Since July, she has slowly stopped taking responsibility. First she said that it was not ALL her fault, then she said it was just as much my fault as hers. She then began violating every boundary I had set. Personal insults, refusing to follow through on agreements, etc. I spoke to the counselor alone & he agreed that she really takes no responsibility for anything and is unlikely to do so. I told him that with no improvement, I did not think the marriage would survive.
My daughter came home from college the week before Xmas and we had a long talk about things. She told me that her mom is very alone because she has no family and no friends here. I did not say it, but she has family, they just will not speak to her. Also, she has no close friends because she has no empathy. Basically, my daughter was saying how hard it was on my Wife to be alone. She even said that I exaggerate her mom's behavior, and it is not that bad. The last statement is almost a direct quote of what my wife has said to me on many occasions.
For a few days, I felt very guilty and was actually thinking of trying again. But today, I am more angry. I feel that she is intentionally telling my daughter part of the truth and spinning things to make it sound like I am just being a demanding rude asshole. I have tried to avoid criticizing my W to my daughter, but I feel like my W is doing whatever she can to make herself sound like a poor victim in this situation.
Thoughts?
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Post by eternaloptimism on Dec 28, 2016 14:24:06 GMT -5
flashjohn this sounds really hard on you. I have no sound advice to offer... never faced that situ. But I would advise you to be soooo careful with your daughter. Your wife brought her up too remember and that will have affected her too. But she is young and doesn't have the life experience yet to fully understand what's been happening. You will more than likely wind up being the bad guy if you attempt To get her to understand. I'm sorry this is no help at all. But I do care. X
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2016 14:26:49 GMT -5
flashjohn this sounds really hard on you. I have no sound advice to offer... never faced that situ. But I would advise you to be soooo careful with your daughter. Your wife brought her up too remember and that will have affected her too. But she is young and doesn't have the life experience yet to fully understand what's been happening. You will more than likely wind up being the bad guy if you attempt To get her to understand. I'm sorry this is no help at all. But I do care. X Thank you very much. I am thinking that if she brings it up again, I will just try to tell her that there are a lot of reasons, and I don't think they are appropriate to discuss with her. I have never mentioned the forced celibacy or the insults about my penis. |
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Post by eternaloptimism on Dec 28, 2016 14:29:34 GMT -5
I know... can you imagine! "Sorry I left your mother, but she hates my cock and won't drop her knickers" ain't the kind of father daughter chat you need is it lol!
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Post by bballgirl on Dec 28, 2016 14:32:40 GMT -5
I understand it's not an easy situation. You are not responsible for your wife's happiness anymore. Your wife treated you (and it sounds like others) poorly for many years and there are consequences for those actions. My ten year old daughter said to me last month that she wishes her father and I were still together. I told her that mommy wasn't happy and you want mommy to be happy, right? Again it's not easy, I get it but find your happiness and live the life you want for yourself with the days you have remaining on this Earth.
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Post by tamara68 on Dec 28, 2016 18:08:35 GMT -5
flashjohn I have a similar situation. Only I have not seen my daughter for a while. But it is clear she is being brainwashed by stbx. I have been thinking too on how to respond to her. I have been googling about parental alienation. www.paawareness.com/
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Post by greatcoastal on Dec 28, 2016 18:39:32 GMT -5
I am currently reading a book that would be a useful tool for you in this situation. The problem is answering your question, effectively,I am only at the middle!! The author addresses these problems and more far better than I could in a few sentences. If I find a paragraph or two I will pass it along.
Co-parenting with a Toxic EX. (What to Do When Your Ex-Spouse Tries to Turn the Kids Against You.) by Amy J. L. Baker PhD.
Even though your daughter is college age I think you will find it useful.
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Post by worksforme2 on Dec 28, 2016 22:54:06 GMT -5
For what it's worth....I am big on honesty, at times not to my benefit, but I think your daughter needs a dose. Your daughter is at an adult age, thought the read I get is she may be somewhat biased toward her mom. That's often the case in mother/daughter relationships.
If you are intent on her understanding the real dynamic of your marriage problems you are going to have to have a heart to heart talk with her. You should be a reasonably good judge of her maturity level so I would use that knowledge to frame the level of dialog. Based on what you feel is appropriate present your side of the case to her. That doesn't mean you have to disparage your spouse, but you do have to be honest about her mother's true nature. Enlighten your daughter as to the real state of disharmony between her mom and your in-laws. I can't believe you daughter doesn't know she has living relatives on her mother's side and doesn't know of them. State your feelings about your W's lack of empathy being the reason she has few friends. Unless your daughter has inherited the same lack of empathy she should give you a fair hearing and an opportunity to air your grievances provided you do so in a manor that doesn't attack her mom or put her in a position of having to choose between the 2 of you. Honesty usually is the best policy, when ever possible. Good luck...
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Post by baza on Dec 29, 2016 0:46:34 GMT -5
In this world, always back "self interest" in the great race of life.
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It would be in your missus self interest to have you back to reprise your role as whipping boy. She has found that no-one else has been able to assume that role so it is in her interests that you return. If using your daughter to advance this agenda might work, then she'll try it.
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Your daughter may see her self interest as best served by you and her mother being back together. It might be easier for her to visit - borrow the car / money etc off you if you were in the same abode still. And, if giving you the guilts might advance that agenda, then that's what she'll try.
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Then there is your self interest. To be away from the poisonous environment of the ILIASM shithole.
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Just about everyone in this world acts on a basis of self interest.
And YOU are just as entitled to do that as your missus and your daughter are.
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Stay "gone" buddy.
Redefine your relationship with your daughter with some boundaries, #1 being that your relationship with your missus is NOT up for discussion or debate.
Redefine your relationship with your missus with some boundaries, #1 being that your relationship with your daughter is NOT up for discussion or debate.
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Post by DryCreek on Dec 29, 2016 2:08:18 GMT -5
flashjohn, I know you argue points for a living, so you hardly need me to feed you lines. But FWIW, here are some thoughts that might get the point across to her. "Consider that your mother is telling you one side of the story. And there are details that will stay private. "Your mother has family, and she can make friends. If she's alone, that's not my doing - she should evaluate her own choices and actions. "Her verbal abuse and hostility got progressively worse over the years - well past my breaking point. Counseling has only shown that it's unlikely to change. "For many years, ours has not been the loving, intimate relationship that a married couple should share. Life is too short to spend it without love and affection, so I'm voting with my feet."
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Post by thebaffledking on Dec 29, 2016 3:12:47 GMT -5
fj, I am right there with you. My D (youngest) is a college sophomore this year, and for the last probably 8 years my wife has at LEAST subconsciously groomed my daughter to feel about me the same way she does. She didn't have as much success with the boys because they were older, but man.....she set out to usurp my role as a parent and father at every turn and I know for sure she has been feeding my D things she doesn't like about me for YEARS.......of course these are her distorted versions of things......plausible deniability or whatever it's called. My daughter is very distant from me now, while she and my wife act like sisters and BFFs. They both treat me with controlled disdain. It hurts like hell.
BUT.......and here's what I want to suggest to you.......it is TOTALLY OUT OF YOUR CONTROL. All you can do is be flashjohn, the magnificent man, father, and provider. You can't control anything else and in my experience it makes things worse to try. This too shall pass as everyone 'grows up'......including your ex or stbx.
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Post by shamwow on Dec 29, 2016 7:18:00 GMT -5
In this world, always back "self interest" in the great race of life. - It would be in your missus self interest to have you back to reprise your role as whipping boy. She has found that no-one else has been able to assume that role so it is in her interests that you return. If using your daughter to advance this agenda might work, then she'll try it. - Your daughter may see her self interest as best served by you and her mother being back together. It might be easier for her to visit - borrow the car / money etc off you if you were in the same abode still. And, if giving you the guilts might advance that agenda, then that's what she'll try. - Then there is your self interest. To be away from the poisonous environment of the ILIASM shithole. - Just about everyone in this world acts on a basis of self interest. And YOU are just as entitled to do that as your missus and your daughter are. - Stay "gone" buddy. Redefine your relationship with your daughter with some boundaries, #1 being that your relationship with your missus is NOT up for discussion or debate. Redefine your relationship with your missus with some boundaries, #1 being that your relationship with your daughter is NOT up for discussion or debate. Exactly |
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Post by shamwow on Dec 29, 2016 7:24:22 GMT -5
This thread struck a chord with me. My daughter is a sophomore in high school but college will be here before I know it.
I'm not really scared about starting over since trying new things is one of my favorite, well, things.
I'm not really scared about winding up alone since much of how that turns out depends on my effort and desire.
I am scared about the relationship with my kids. After staying in this marriage for a decade and a half to keep things stable for them will they then turn their backs on me? That is the question that keeps me up at night.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2016 10:44:18 GMT -5
I am currently reading a book that would be a useful tool for you in this situation. The problem is answering your question, effectively,I am only at the middle!! The author addresses these problems and more far better than I could in a few sentences. If I find a paragraph or two I will pass it along. Co-parenting with a Toxic EX. (What to Do When Your Ex-Spouse Tries to Turn the Kids Against You.) by Amy J. L. Baker PhD. Even though your daughter is college age I think you will find it useful. Thank you very much GC! |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2016 11:01:41 GMT -5
Hey, thank you for all of the responses. I really do appreciate all of your insights and suggestions.
I think this is the issue. My wife is very manipulative and is relentless in her attempts to overwhelm a person with her constant barrage of attempts to make someone believe that her way is the only way.
My daughter has been staying with her since she got back from school on the 16th. I am quite sure that my W has been filling her head with all kinds of things about how I am having a midlife crisis, stressed from my job, etc. She will place the blame on anything but her own behavior.
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