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Post by thequietone on Oct 13, 2023 4:39:11 GMT -5
[/quote]She gets out of sorts when you want to do something abut looking after yourself? What's the rationale? [/quote]
Believe me, I wish I knew that. It’s like she wants absolute control of everything and everyone around her.
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Post by csl on Oct 13, 2023 7:57:07 GMT -5
Thank you both for your welcome. It wasn’t a choice to move into the spare room. I was told to. She said she likes her space and so on and so forth. In terms of growing my social circle, that’s something I’m trying to find ways to do, however, I know that it won’t go down well with her as she likes me at home, and hates it if I even so much as mention going to the gym. I think the influx of several new folks is starting me up again. SHE doesn't like it? So? Do you like being moved out of the bedroom? Do you like being in a SM? Maybe, just maybe, she doesn't get to be absolute monarch? Rather than Milquetoast-ing your way through your marriage, you say something like, "So?"
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Post by jim44444 on Oct 13, 2023 8:27:35 GMT -5
... as she likes me at home, and hates it if I even so much as mention going to the gym. I think the influx of several new folks is starting me up again. SHE doesn't like it? So? Do you like being moved out of the bedroom? Do you like being in a SM? Maybe, just maybe, she doesn't get to be absolute monarch? Rather than Milquetoast-ing your way through your marriage, you say something like, "So?" thequietone, I agree with the approach suggested by csl. Do not ask for permission, just inform her of your plans. Do not relinquish your personal autonomy. In your case reclaim it starting now. Will she complain and oppose you? Yes. But as csl said just say "So?" or in my case it would be "Piss off." Also follow the advice by Baza and secure legal guidance, she may prefer divorcing you over allowing you autonomy.
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Post by toughtiger on Oct 13, 2023 9:18:23 GMT -5
Thank you both for your welcome. It wasn’t a choice to move into the spare room. I was told to. She said she likes her space and so on and so forth. In terms of growing my social circle, that’s something I’m trying to find ways to do, however, I know that it won’t go down well with her as she likes me at home, and hates it if I even so much as mention going to the gym. Welcome and sorry you are here. Have you had the "talk" ....... about the lack of intimacy ? where you tell her you want more intimacy and sex... that this is no longer a marriage but roommates. She should not influence you going out or rebuilding a life maybe with hobbies or hanging out with others. "She likes you at home" ![???](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/huh.png) what for? to watch her on her phone........ does not sound like you have much of a friendship etc with her.......... well, i think you "Liked" when you had a marriage too/ not someone lost in a phone etc...
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Post by northstarmom on Oct 14, 2023 16:14:21 GMT -5
toughtiger: "In terms of growing my social circle, that’s something I’m trying to find ways to do, however, I know that it won’t go down well with her as she likes me at home, and hates it if I even so much as mention going to the gym."
You hate having a SM, but that doesn't inspire her to be sexual with you.
So what if she hates your going to the gym? What's she going to do -- divorce you? Will she offer you sex to fill the time you'd spend at the gym? Really, what do you have to lose except being miserable at home with her, if you choose to have hobbies and friendships outside of the home?
During the last years of my 34-year marriage, with the help of therapy, I expanded my circle of friends, took trips by myself, and did many activities outside of the home without my husband. My husband was happy spending his time at home watching sports or working on his computer. I did not ask his permission to get involved in activities, to take trips (retreats, classes in things I enjoyed). I just did them. Whether he liked or disliked my doing those things didn't matter to me because we basically were roommates. By the time we divorced, we'd been completely sexless for 8 years because he refused to have sex with me. We obviously lacked a romantic connection so I saw no reason to ask or need his permission to do things that made my life happier. My misery over being sexless obviously didn't bother him so there was no reason for me to take his feelings into account when doing things that brightened my life. He was just a roommate.
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Post by worksforme2 on Oct 14, 2023 19:39:01 GMT -5
She gets out of sorts when you want to do something abut looking after yourself? What's the rationale? [/quote] Believe me, I wish I knew that. It’s like she wants absolute control of everything and everyone around her. [/quote] quietzone,....my X also wanted to be controlling. Unfortunately for her I have been uncontrollable since I was about 12 yrs old. In addition to going to the gym you might look up a site called "Meet Up". It's a site where you will find all manor folks who enjoy a wide variety of activites, from wine tasteing, to playing cards, hiking, camping, pickleball, you name it. And it costs very little usually to participate. And like csl and jim44444 advised, don't ask for permission. Just gird up your loins and go do what you want to do. what is she going to do, cut off the sex?
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Post by Anwandterfan on Oct 15, 2023 5:35:32 GMT -5
Hi to everyone,
I came to this forum because someone put the link on another website called the Generous Husband. I became very interested in the views of the author versus the comments of people. Obviously, people are people and every person is responsible for their own decisions and therefore consequences. I didn't know forums like this exist until this week.
I am in my early 30s, have stability where I work and of course in my economy. Basically, I have been in a relationship overall for 8 years. We spent almost our first year as FWB and we enjoyed it very much, we kept exclusivity though. Previously I was in a fugacious relationship that ended up after just 3 months.
Ok, back to my current relationship. So from our 2nd year up to the whole 4th one we were ''officially'' boyfriend and girlfriend and at the end of that 4th year we got married. We had incredible intimacy (sex et. al) whenever possible. All was going super alright as normal. We only had a 3 month hiatus in which we had no intercourse basically because we were planning stuff way ahead before our wedding and the excitement of moving together, etc. We tacitly decided kept ourselves until wedding night, basically.
The Pandemic came, it was one of the best chances to give fire to our most hedonistic wishes with each other. That was 5th year.
We welcomed our first child, which we love and care so much in our 6th year. During pregnancy, sex life was flowing like a river and we enjoyed it so much, we didn't care more about contraception methods (of course lol) and it was so bright. After the pregnancy my expectations were of course less than in the then-past. We still made love on a nice basis (I can think of) weekly or biweekly at least.
Our 7th year came in, we moved to a new country and even though we had some issues for a brief couple of months finding a new apartment with enough space for our child and ourselves, we found it and retook our sexual life at the post pregnancy ratio I mentioned before. Pretty understandable, I guess.
The end of the 7th year brought many challenges as the stress of life at her job plus legalization issues on her side have put a lot of pressure on my wife. Some legal processes like visas take a bit long in some countries so she hasn't been able to travel outside since then and visit her family on the other side of the ocean. It takes a long unknown time.
As you may've already guesses, our intimacy rate decreased to a clinically SLM. We have been in this status for about 11 months already. I am surprised that this issue is one that many other people experience and I hope I could find some assistance. I am surprised to also read that some people have lived for 10, 20 or even more years in a SLM.
We already had ''the talk'' about 1.5 months ago and she told me she is sometimes clueless, that she is sorry. I told her that I felt I had to separate from her and sort things out. Then next day we had a conversation in which we hugged and kinda reconciliated (but w/ no sex), we spent time cuddling a bit. That's it. Since then I tried to do 3 approaches and she told in the first one that she didn't want to make love and then started to cry...guys, I offered to massage her, cuddle, etc. 2nd approach she told me she needed things to be little by little and in the third approach she told me she didn't want to and looked straight into my eyes and encapsulated herself, this time she told me she felt tired and she needed to rest ''that's what I need''. That was last night. I spent the whole day helping her along with apartment stuff.
I ran scenarios. She has no third party (I did my research) and she has told me as well she has no side stuff at all.
Curiously, I notice the pattern of asking me stuff about going to the warehouse to buy stuff along w/ her, to paint stuff along w/ her, to do x stuff. This was somewhat related to what she told me when we had ''the talk'': that I had to help her more in the apartment. I already do that. IDK really what else she needs. I was the dishes super happily, take the trash out maybe I forget one day or the other. I help her mopping. I don't cheat on her and I have never done it even before marriage. However, I have seriously been thinking about arranging an encounter w/ an escort or to just go out by myself and find a fine lady to spend quality time with. I have needs. Some nights I feel like exploding. Then I feel lonely, sad, and frustrated. I didn't sign up for sexlessness nor emotional torture or gaslighting. I already told her that the world may be falling apart but that our child and her are my priorities. Regarding her, my priority is to be close to her and to give her my love and affection not only w/ words but with acts. She spends time with her phone, she has time for other stuff, IDK but 30 good minutes with her husband at least once a week is much to ask?
Well, that's it for today. I hope she can acknowledge things because I am starting to jump off the boat. Other than the issue with her, my responsibilities as a parent are non-negotiable and she already knows that.
If you have any questions, feel free.
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Post by csl on Oct 15, 2023 7:27:29 GMT -5
Um, in the "I help out" paragraph, I read nothing about helping her with the kid. btw, did you ask her about what, specifically, you could do to help out around the house?
Generous Husband, huh? Wife and I have met Paul and Lori a couple of times, and they are great people. They are the Genesis of Christian marital blogging, having been at it for 20 years.
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Post by Anwandterfan on Oct 15, 2023 8:30:02 GMT -5
Um, in the "I help out" paragraph, I read nothing about helping her with the kid. btw, did you ask her about what, specifically, you could do to help out around the house? Generous Husband, huh? Wife and I have met Paul and Lori a couple of times, and they are great people. They are the Genesis of Christian marital blogging, having been at it for 20 years. Sure, I didn't mention it in my post but I do help with our child. I have taken care of him for over the last 1 .5 years she's been working 8-4 (she is able to, I won't enter into other legal/visa issues), as I work online so I stay with our child. I pick him up on time from school, change his clothes, diapers, whatever he needs. She basically arrives past 4ish or 5 and our child sleeps a 8 pm. ''What, specifically, you could do to help out around the house?'' She told me putting clothes into the washing machine: I do that not always (as I also have many things to do) but I do that sometimes and when I see her doing it I help her straight away. I also have hung the clothes to let them dry. Same with other stuff around our place. Or going at 9 PM to the supermarket to buy things for her next day without her even asking. Also I wrote: '' I was the dishes super happily, take the trash out maybe I forget one day or the other. I help her mopping.'' Yes, I love washing the dishes. all of them. ''Generous Husband, huh?'' R:// yes someone put the link to this ILIASM forum in one of the comments of a post/aka blog entry. The comment section was very interesting to read, not only the author's post.
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Post by worksforme2 on Oct 15, 2023 13:12:40 GMT -5
I think English is your 2nd language so I am giving you the benefit of the doubt in the way you state things. In spirt of all the "honey do's" you seem to be helping out with it comes across in your writing that you are not really committed to the marriage in some way. It's very early in the low sex time frame and you are already thinking about seeking out intimacy somewhere else. Most members here do not think in those terms until the SM period has been present for years. And after they have exhaused every possible avenue toward finding out what has happened or what is happening in the marriage that has brought about the loss of intimacy. Your W seems to be somewhat depressed. Not being able to visit her family for a long period has to be difficult for her. Her being clueless about why she is acting as she does also sounds like there may be a possibility of hormonal issues going on. I would suggest a visit to her doctor for a check up and a series of tests to eliminate any medical issues. If no medical issues are found then perhaps she should schedule some time with a therapist to address the possibility of depression being present. It's good you are addressing this issue early. Early intervention offers the best hope of getting the train back on the track.
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Post by mirrororchid on Oct 17, 2023 5:55:08 GMT -5
... I was in a fugacious relationship that ended up after just 3 months. ...We welcomed our first child, which we love and care for so much in our 6th year. During pregnancy, sex life was flowing like a river...7th year came in, we moved to a new country ...the stress of life at her job plus legalization issues on her side have put a lot of pressure on my wife....she hasn't been able to travel outside since then and visit her family ... our intimacy rate decreased to a clinically SM. We have been in this status for about 11 months already. ...We already had ''the talk'' about 1.5 months ago and she told me she is sometimes clueless, that she is sorry.... I tried to do 3 approaches and she told in the first one that she didn't want to make love and then started to cry...guys, I offered to massage her, cuddle, etc. 2nd approach she told me she needed things to be little by little and in the third approach she told me she didn't want to and looked straight into my eyes and encapsulated herself, this time she told me she felt tired and she needed to rest ''that's what I need''. That was last night. ... she told me when we had ''the talk'': that I had to help her more in the apartment. I already do that. ... I wash the dishes super happily, take the trash out maybe I forget one day or the other. I help her mopping. I don't cheat on her and I have never done it even before marriage. However, I have seriously been thinking about arranging an encounter w/ an escort or to just go out by myself and find a fine lady to spend quality time with. I have needs. Some nights I feel like exploding. Then I feel lonely, sad, and frustrated. I didn't sign up for sexlessness nor emotional torture or gaslighting. I already told her that the world may be falling apart but that our child and her are my priorities. Regarding her, my priority is to be close to her and to give her my love and affection not only w/ words but with acts. She spends time with her phone, she has time for other stuff, IDK but 30 good minutes with her husband at least once a week is much to ask? .... I hope she can acknowledge things because I am starting to jump off the boat....
Sure, I didn't mention it in my post but I do help with our child. I have taken care of him for over the last 1.5 years she's been working 8-4 (she is able to, I won't enter into other legal/visa issues), as I work online so I stay with our child. I pick him up on time from school, change his clothes, diapers, whatever he needs. She basically arrives past 4ish or 5 and our child sleeps at 8 pm. ''What, specifically, you could do to help out around the house?'' She told me putting clothes into the washing machine: I do that not always (as I also have many things to do) but I do that sometimes and when I see her doing it I help her straight away. I also have hung the clothes to let them dry. ... going at 9 PM to the supermarket to buy things for her next day without her even asking. First off, can I tell you how much I like when people send me off to google a word? Hey, greatcoastal ! Is it fair to say your last relationship was "fugacious"? On to important matters at hand. I'd echo worksforme2 in that intervening early is a good idea. You say you've had "the talk" in quotes. At ILIASM, when we put it in quotes like that, I like to make sure we're both saying that concerns about sexlessness include two things: a deadline for improvement and consequences. Before one has a talk, it may be good to speak with a divorce attorney to know the consequences of your consequences if your wife were to file. Given your thought of visiting an escort, you may be in this precaution territory already. You also mention your efforts as a father and husband. Another site you may benefit from is Dad Starting Over. You are focused on the "provider" end of husbandry and giving your "lover" half short shrift. You seem to list the housework as something that earns you points towards nookie. She seems to hint that's teh case too. Both there and here we call that "Choreplay". If you do a goodly share of it, which it sounds like you do, it's bullshit and the depression theory starts to carry weight. A bit of phrasing, avoid the terms "helping her" when it comes to chores. Even when you pull your own weight, it implies you expect her to do that chore herself. If you were divorced all chores would be yours. (and hers). Doing things without asking isn't "extra points". It's base level., Dad Starting Over warns against this approval-seeking. It's your house too. If you divorce, you'll do everything with no one asking. So it's not really an offense if you get no recognition for doing what is necessary. You may be doing more than your fair share, in which case, the lack of gratitude may be grating. I don't mean to diminish unfair life situations. You work at home. She leaves. She may have expectations of a greater share of housework due to opportunities you have that she doesn't. She may be silently judging your behavior as slothful rather than generous. It may get compounded by standards of upkeep she wants you to hold but you don't. What you see as superb housekeeping she may think of as adequate and she's placing herself in your role and thinking she'd have the place spotless. Such expectations are inappropriate and could stand some explicit statements, perhaps adjustment to lower expectations you'd be fine with providing if it meant slightly more effort and a modicum of appreciation for doing more than you actually care about, strictly for her sake. She may be overestimating how much time you have available to tidy teh house while working online. Might she have a point? Or does she have a very inaccurate vision of what you do all day? Stay at Home moms have been unappreciated this way in the past. Your roles may be reversed and she's not extending the courtesy of benefit of the doubt. Your kid is 18 months old. You've been sexless for 11. Good chance that isn't coincidence. I enjoy evo-psychology and figure her body is more invested in ensuring biological success of her son that mixing 75% of your genes instead of just 50. Commonly it's the second kid that harpoons the love life. One kid does teh job in other cases. Worksforme2 says people generally exhaust every alleyway for reasons why and fixes to them before considering "outsourcing" (the escort you refer to). To some degree, that makes sense. You've offered help to find the combination of behavior and environment she says she has needed, but no changes have resulted. It's not necessarily your job to figure out her problem. The medical intervention is not unreasonable, but she'll fight you if she feels there's nothing wrong with being celibate. Not an uncommon viewpoint for refusers. You mention Visas so she's the immigrant? Foreign countries have differing views of infidelity than ours. Perhaps she's expecting you to get a mistress? Your visiting an escort may be fine by her. This can be part of "The Talk" - capitalized, in quotes. Now questions:
Gaslighting? Has she been telling you things happened that didn't? Or that things that happened didn't? Gaslighting is getting you to doubt your memory. Not sayign she isn't. Just clarifying that it is a component, if it is. World falling apart? In what ways? (not that sexlessness for 11 months is acceptable fallout)
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nacho
New Member
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Post by nacho on Nov 3, 2023 9:01:04 GMT -5
Hi,
I guess being on page 81 should make me feel a little less unique.
-The New Guy
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Post by worksforme2 on Nov 3, 2023 19:58:32 GMT -5
welcome to the forum nacho,....you say literally nothing so I am prompted to ask ...what is it that brings you to our little corner of the internet?
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week5of35years
Junior Member
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Think I may be out of a SM... @the Talk in Nov '23 and progressing well so far....
Posts: 99
Age Range: 51-55
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Post by week5of35years on Nov 10, 2023 10:36:40 GMT -5
Hi I found this board several weeks ago and its helped me understand my feelings, put labels on lots of "stuff" and prepare for "the talk"... who knew...
I had the talk with my wife 5 weeks ago, we have been together since 1988, hence week5of35years
I have been in a sexless relationship for 33 years, and in a sexless marriage for 22 years
We had the talk and I played back what I have been feeling for the last years... asked a load of questions to which I got few answers that made sense and we agreed to try to work on getting better intimacy and for us to get back to being the couple who basically give a shit about each other again..
We have stepped up intimacy although we have not had penetrative sex yet and frankly I am awash with adrenaline and feel pretty shit most of the time as I simply have no clue what the outcome will be and no clue how much of what my wife has said to me is truthful..
This is the culmination of a lot of angst for me that was bookended 8yrs ago when I had "yet another" 'why are we not having any sex talks'.... to which she said she had never wanted a sex life and every time I had raised it she had basically lied about a reason and expected that I would see she was lying and leave... for 25yrs... this ripped my heart out and as a child of divorce with an 8 year old at that time, I reconciled myself to checking out of the relationship stuff (being nice, holidays, BIG birthdays etc etc) for 10 years, and then when my son was 18 or so, basically telling my wife to begone and hoping that at 60 I could achieve some form of restart..
I never expected that after the talk, she would say she wanted to try to improve things, I assumed we would be in separate rooms by now living as housemates with a shared responsibility....
I never expected it, and I carry so much resentment it is difficult, as I basically feel I have been cheated out of a life after 35 years of trying to "fix" the problems/barriers she presented me with at every "the talk", that actually never even bloody existed in the first place.... what a mug....
So getting my head around "fixing stuff" is not exactly easy but I thought I would share, as what I am feeling now is doing my head and my heart in.... I'll take a deep breath and maybe share the backstory later, thanks for listening
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miestas
Junior Member
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Posts: 74
Age Range: 61-65
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Post by miestas on Nov 10, 2023 11:18:44 GMT -5
Hello Week5of35years
Welcome to the forum. I understand your frustration and the feelings of resentment. Pretty much everyone here has gone through that.
Just as an aside, being 60 makes it harder, but not impossible. I started a completely new career at 63. It just means you have less time to flip flop. Make a decision, commit to it, carry it out, and complete the mission. Focus on the mission and don’t get distracted - whatever you decide the mission should be. Typically, the choices are stay, stay and have an affair (either covertly or openly), or go. From here your life is up to you.
The forum members will help as much as they can with whichever you choose. Great bunch of people here!
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