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Post by bballgirl on Dec 10, 2016 13:54:53 GMT -5
I suspect when you tell your kids that you are divorcing they will understand and may even say what took so long. My son was begging me to divorce his father. I think their initial reaction will be shock that it was ME who initiated......but who knows. I think children are more aware than what we give them credit for. My daughter had a sleepover last weekend and when she came home she said that her friend Ana's parents really hate each each and she was only there one night. Her friend Ana said to her, "your parents got a divorce right? I think my parents are going to get a divorce". Then she started crying. Kids know. |
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Post by bballgirl on Dec 10, 2016 14:03:38 GMT -5
I suspect when you tell your kids that you are divorcing they will understand and may even say what took so long. My son was begging me to divorce his father. Several years ago, my son was begging his mother to leave me. He was young and immature and he saw her fighting with me when I wanted to set proper boundaries for our son. Naturally he wanted to have his way, and his mother always gave in to him. He honed his manipulative skills under her tutelage. She would buy him large bottles of gin and vodka, and give him beer to take to underage parties. She also knew he was smoking pot and hid it from me, and even lied to me when I questioned whether he was getting high whenever I had suspicions. I stood firm regardless of the unrelenting pressure from the two of them and the potential consequences on my marriage. I explained that I would die for either of them, but I would not go to prison for anyone, and recorded several conversations as proof that I was not the guilty party. Thankfully nothing seriously bad ever happened as a result, but I also glad I wasn't foolish enough to ever take that chance. I recently had a conversation with my son about relationships while visiting him at college. He suggested that his mother and I should put our relationship first, and should not have put the kids first for so many years. I shared with him that his mother has always either intentionally or unintentionally given higher priority to many people and things other than our marriage, and I have warned her numerous times of the consequences this would have on our relationship in the long term. Then I promised him that someday when the time was right that I would sit down to share more with him, but at the moment I was emotionally exhausted. I also told him not to worry, that I will always love and support him. Your son is wise and of course hindsight is 20/20, but hopefully he will know better for his future relationships. My ex put everything he could before me. Coaching, baseball, gambling, tv, etc. I once asked him if we could go away for a weekend just us, ( it was during my still trying phase), and his response was - "why would I want to do that?" Brought me to tears which he didn't see but I knew where I stood. I outsourced for the first time shortly after that. The bottom line is we all want to be wanted and desired and our spouses are stupid to think they can get away with abuse and neglect. Eventually someone will want and desire what they don't. |
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Post by novembercomingfire on Dec 10, 2016 14:19:38 GMT -5
Several years ago, my son was begging his mother to leave me. He was young and immature and he saw her fighting with me when I wanted to set proper boundaries for our son. Naturally he wanted to have his way, and his mother always gave in to him. He honed his manipulative skills under her tutelage. She would buy him large bottles of gin and vodka, and give him beer to take to underage parties. She also knew he was smoking pot and hid it from me, and even lied to me when I questioned whether he was getting high whenever I had suspicions. I stood firm regardless of the unrelenting pressure from the two of them and the potential consequences on my marriage. I explained that I would die for either of them, but I would not go to prison for anyone, and recorded several conversations as proof that I was not the guilty party. Thankfully nothing seriously bad ever happened as a result, but I also glad I wasn't foolish enough to ever take that chance. I recently had a conversation with my son about relationships while visiting him at college. He suggested that his mother and I should put our relationship first, and should not have put the kids first for so many years. I shared with him that his mother has always either intentionally or unintentionally given higher priority to many people and things other than our marriage, and I have warned her numerous times of the consequences this would have on our relationship in the long term. Then I promised him that someday when the time was right that I would sit down to share more with him, but at the moment I was emotionally exhausted. I also told him not to worry, that I will always love and support him. Your son is wise and of course hindsight is 20/20, but hopefully he will know better for his future relationships. My ex put everything he could before me. Coaching, baseball, gambling, tv, etc. I once asked him if we could go away for a weekend just us, ( it was during my still trying phase), and his response was - "why would I want to do that?" Brought me to tears which he didn't see but I knew where I stood. I outsourced for the first time shortly after that. The bottom line is we all want to be wanted and desired and our spouses are stupid to think they can get away with abuse and neglect. Eventually someone will want and desire what they don't. I sure hope so ... |
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Post by RexCorvus on Dec 10, 2016 14:23:31 GMT -5
Hello brother thebaffledking , Thank you for sharing this descriptive story of what can be described only as you so appropriately titled REAL LIFE ABUSE! Your wife, as you have so eloquently described, is a grade A BITCH! There is no argument that can dispute that fact. As I read your story and other’s comments several things kept popping up in my mind. Because your story explains so well how much of a bitch she is, I feel like what is lost in it is you. We don’t care about her, we care about you! You sound like a very successful, well educated man, who is in good health and takes care of himself physically. You have drive and ambition. You are caring, committed, loyal, and able to clearly articulate your feelings. I counted the words from the story referencing “her” (her, she, wife, bitch…) and the words referencing “you” (me, my, I…) there are 102 referring to the bitch, and 126 referring to you. I believe we share similar backgrounds. I know you are fighting with all your being to exit this abusive relationship. I know you are concerned about what the kids will think. If I may make a humble suggestion, focus on YOU, don’t worry about what others will think! Know Thyself! It took me a very long time to truly understand how much my childhood impacted me. I’ve never gone to counseling for myself, but I was involved and trained a bit in it at a very young age because of sharing my story with other kids. I was strong, I was a survivor, I was forged in fire… bravado coming from a guy who couldn’t admit fully that his childhood heavily influenced the path he has tread. I love the movie Good Will Hunting, I guess because I see so much of myself in Will. One key take away from that movie, “It’s not your fault. It’s not your fault. It’s not your fault!” You sir are an incredible man who has so much to share. Know that who you were, doesn’t define who you will be going forward. God bless you! RC |
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Post by callisto on Dec 10, 2016 19:41:04 GMT -5
, " my divorce didn't come to that, fortunately that didn't You probably will start hearing from the kids, from family, and neighbors, " good thing you got out, what took you so long?" After telling my parents about my SM both asked why I I stayed so long if it was so bad..why I didn't leave years beforehand- it was hard to answer and made me feel pathetic and weak. For some reason SM is hard to escape from.. Perhaps because we all tried so hard to make it work for so long.. |
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Post by JMX on Dec 10, 2016 21:04:04 GMT -5
I am always suspect when people claim narc on their spouse. It's kind of an easy label for someone that you're not getting along with at all.
I wish you had left her FOR the sake of the kids. I wouldn't say she's narcissistic, but man - I will label her as bi-polar. She sounds mentally ill @baffledking. I have seen this exact type before. I actually deal with it on occasion.
Not to heap on the grief, but this is a prime example of how staying for the kids sucks donkey balls. God help the spouses of your children who have learned this behavior is acceptable in marriage by your silence. Hopefully, now that they're older, you can show through example how it "should" be.
I disagree with the some of the others that opening up to them to let them know is helpful. It is a tightrope not many are equipped to handle successfully without further hurting them - IMHO. Would rather see it by example and maybe they don't realize it with anything but hindsight - even maybe after you are dead - but that is the consequence for YOUR choices. Choice to remain and choice to finally leave. It's not right to heap all of that emotional baggage on them. They are just starting out and need a clean slate irrespective of your relationship with their mother. They have learned enough - they don't need to know the gory details.
Just a thought. Not directly at you.
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Post by thebaffledking on Dec 10, 2016 23:32:40 GMT -5
I'm not sure exactly what her diagnosis would be, and it's too late to care too much anyway. Basically she just doesn't know how to treat people and she puts herself as the priority in almost everything. It comes down to how she was raised. She was raised by a woman who if you upset her there'd be holy hell to pay in the form of name-calling and cussing, so she learned early on this critical point: you can treat someone like shit and they will still come back to love you and appease you.....that's how she grew up. Unfortunately she doesn't recognize the sickness in that dynamic and that it's also going to cost her her marriage and the loss of a very good man.
You can be devoted, committed, loving, all-in, whatever.......but NONE of that can stand up to the programming of youth, at least not if the other denies there's a problem and will go tooth and nail to make sure you understand it's all YOUR fault.
I can't wait to be gone and wake up to sweet freedom.
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Post by novembercomingfire on Dec 10, 2016 23:38:13 GMT -5
I'm not sure exactly what her diagnosis would be, and it's too late to care too much anyway. Basically she just doesn't know how to treat people and she puts herself as the priority in almost everything. It comes down to how she was raised. She was raised by a woman who if you upset her there'd be holy hell to pay in the form of name-calling and cussing, so she learned early on this critical point: you can treat someone like shit and they will still come back to love you and appease you.....that's how she grew up. Unfortunately she doesn't recognize the sickness in that dynamic and that it's also going to cost her her marriage and the loss of a very good man. You can be devoted, committed, loving, all-in, whatever.......but NONE of that can stand up to the programming of youth, at least not if the other denies there's a problem and will go tooth and nail to make sure you understand it's all YOUR fault. I can't wait to be gone and wake up to sweet freedom. Well stated. I can't wait for this for you as well. The day will come for all of us - some sooner, some much later ... |
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Post by thebaffledking on Dec 10, 2016 23:40:27 GMT -5
Hello brother thebaffledking , Thank you for sharing this descriptive story of what can be described only as you so appropriately titled REAL LIFE ABUSE! Your wife, as you have so eloquently described, is a grade A BITCH! There is no argument that can dispute that fact. As I read your story and other’s comments several things kept popping up in my mind. Because your story explains so well how much of a bitch she is, I feel like what is lost in it is you. We don’t care about her, we care about you! You sound like a very successful, well educated man, who is in good health and takes care of himself physically. You have drive and ambition. You are caring, committed, loyal, and able to clearly articulate your feelings. I counted the words from the story referencing “her” (her, she, wife, bitch…) and the words referencing “you” (me, my, I…) there are 102 referring to the bitch, and 126 referring to you. I believe we share similar backgrounds. I know you are fighting with all your being to exit this abusive relationship. I know you are concerned about what the kids will think. If I may make a humble suggestion, focus on YOU, don’t worry about what others will think! Know Thyself! It took me a very long time to truly understand how much my childhood impacted me. I’ve never gone to counseling for myself, but I was involved and trained a bit in it at a very young age because of sharing my story with other kids. I was strong, I was a survivor, I was forged in fire… bravado coming from a guy who couldn’t admit fully that his childhood heavily influenced the path he has tread. I love the movie Good Will Hunting, I guess because I see so much of myself in Will. One key take away from that movie, “It’s not your fault. It’s not your fault. It’s not your fault!” You sir are an incredible man who has so much to share. Know that who you were, doesn’t define who you will be going forward. God bless you! RC Thanks for these very kind words, RC! They mean a lot to me! |
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Post by thebaffledking on Dec 11, 2016 5:53:29 GMT -5
There's ONE thing I think the kids need to know, and I can present it in such a way that is strictly factual......than in June of 2008, she told me if I wanted physical intimacy I could seek it from a whore (I'd use 'prostitute'). That says all there is to know about her, and the situation. I want them to know that.
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Post by baza on Dec 11, 2016 6:11:10 GMT -5
I don't wish to be arguementative Brother tbk, but on what basis do you figure that "the kids need to know" the contents of your recollection of a particular conversation you had with your missus 8 years ago ?
I just can't see how this advances your exit agenda in any way, or advances your relationship with your kids longer term.
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Post by thebaffledking on Dec 11, 2016 6:32:25 GMT -5
That's okay, baza, it's a decision I will contend with.
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Post by greatcoastal on Dec 11, 2016 7:23:47 GMT -5
There's ONE thing I think the kids need to know, and I can present it in such a way that is strictly factual......than in June of 2008, she told me if I wanted physical intimacy I could seek it from a whore (I'd use 'prostitute'). That says all there is to know about her, and the situation. I want them to know that. Reminds me of the song "I Shot The Sheriff". My oldest son, was going off to spend the night at a hotel with some girl that he met on the internet, that he barely knew. She lived an hour and a half away from him, and everything was on his dime. I wanted him to know about my reasons for being so concerned for him. Not just, "because it's wrong, or because I'm your dad and I say so," Instead it was the right time to say, " I dated a girl who I met at a different H.S. We dated for 3 1/2 yrs. She came on to me strong, (like this girl was doing to you) we were engaged to be married. I had moved an hour away from her, and was starting my own life. I had my own apartment, job, church,and was living single, starting a good career. She decided to have sex with another guy. She got pregnant, there was 2 weeks time between us. I ALWAYS used a condom, he used nothing. She had an abortion. I had offered to her to have the child, run the tests, and I will take full responsibility if it's mine. She did not want to do that. I told her, "I could never marry someone who had an abortion." I walked many, many, lonely miles around downtown after that, for 3 yrs. Since then I see her on Fakebook. She changed her name, has had three children, never married, remains single has a single daughter with kids, lives in government housing, claims to be gay, works at a Dollar General Store. She sounds miserable. If someone asks me ,"would you speak to my teenager, give them some guidance?" I would tell them that story. So why not my own son? It's my job to prepare them for real world, reality. |
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Post by JMX on Dec 11, 2016 7:32:03 GMT -5
greatcoastal - if I put aside this story altogether, because I do have some issues with it - sorry! - I would have to say the difference here is that you are not talking about their mother.
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Post by tamara68 on Dec 11, 2016 8:09:19 GMT -5
The kids are grown now, but she had a particular penchant for going off on me in front of the kids (and does to this day) while in the car. That was a common M.O. with her. I think she wanted, in some twisted way, to bring me down BELOW her in the family dynamic. And of course no sex for 8 years now........which she shouted, last time I brought it up 3 years ago, "THAT'S MUTUAL, SO DON'T YOU DARE HANG THAT ON ME!" And that's when I knew it was hopeless.........just needed to start disentangling from years of trauma bonding, codependence on her mood swings, maybe PTSD, maybe Stockholm, who knows. And this, folks, is emotional abuse at its finest..........and physical, too, if you count forced abstinence as physical abuse (it is). God Bless Us, Every One. A lot in your story that I can relate to. My stbx is an emotional abuser too. Criticized me constantly in front of my daughter and even using her to support his point of view. And constantly saying 'we' (he and my daughter) in stead of 'I' when he gave his opinion about me. He also said not that long ago, that our sexlessness was mutual. Especially after he touched my shoulder last year, after not having touched me at all for more than 10 years. I didn't appreciate that, I froze. And felt insulted. Have you read this? :http://iliasm.org/thread/787/emotional-blackmail Take a look here too: outofthefog.website/I am out now and the fog is beginning to clear. As long as you are in that situation it is hard to think yourself free. But with small steps at the time and perseverance it is definitely possible to get out. |
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