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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2016 23:18:19 GMT -5
Arthur, I hope you come back. You may be feeling like I did, like ten years ago, when I found my first outlet to ask about a sexless marriage. The responses I got terrified me, I wasn't ready to hear them, I felt I had betrayed my sexless marriage by opening up for help.........I read some replies, then deleted my account and a few years (wasted, mind you) went by before I started to believe what I had been told in those first replies. No one's here to judge......only to help. You are in a situation that needs support. I hope you come back. I am back. It's great to have support. Thank you.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2016 23:21:10 GMT -5
Arthur, I hope you come back. You may be feeling like I did, like ten years ago, when I found my first outlet to ask about a sexless marriage. The responses I got terrified me, I wasn't ready to hear them, I felt I had betrayed my sexless marriage by opening up for help.........I read some replies, then deleted my account and a few years (wasted, mind you) went by before I started to believe what I had been told in those first replies. No one's here to judge......only to help. You are in a situation that needs support. I hope you come back.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2016 23:29:12 GMT -5
"I do not think divorce is a solution and I do not want to cheat either" - you say Brother arther. - Staying in an ILIASM shithole IS a perfectly valid choice to make. Cheating IS a perfectly valid choice to make. Leaving an ILIASM shithole is a perfectly valid choice too. - Doing nothing is likewise, a perfectly valid choice as well. - All these choices have their up and downsides, and you full well know those up / down sides to the "staying" / "doing nothing" choices, as you are living them and have been for quite a while. The results of your choice are in the scorebook, and by your own story, the results - whilst sub-optimal - are satisfactory enough, or line ball enough, for you to persevere with that "staying" / "doing nothing" choice for the moment. - If your dynamic is to change, that is probably only going to come from a change in your thinking, and those other options (all perfectly legitimate options) coming under your serious consideration. I am constantly thinking about my options but I still have patience left. Today, I have some hope but it could change on a dime. I will do something because otherwise.....
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Post by GeekGoddess on Nov 24, 2016 20:16:06 GMT -5
For the record I do advocate loud belching. Mine are a clear & clean tone (no fluidy gross sounds, just air across vocal chords). This is a physical trait I have always had, & did nothing to contribute to the demise of my SM deal. It did provide for hysterical laughter the first session with Loverman though. (His laughter in response made me feel so much better & we both laughed & I do love me some laughing sex)
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Post by DryCreek on Nov 24, 2016 20:57:10 GMT -5
I wonder if crying has ever worked for a sexless man... No.
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Post by DryCreek on Nov 24, 2016 21:01:36 GMT -5
I do not think divorce is a solution and I do not want to cheat either and I think this is why it make it so difficult for me. And this is why she has no motivation to change. There are no repercussions for her actions; she can safely act with impunity.
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Post by wom360 on Nov 24, 2016 22:09:36 GMT -5
I do not think divorce is a solution and I do not want to cheat either and I think this is why it make it so difficult for me. And this is why she has no motivation to change. There are no repercussions for her actions; she can safely act with autonomy. If one is not willing to provide consequences, sexlessness looks more like a choice.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2016 23:23:21 GMT -5
Your situation is slightly unusual here in that you had 10 months sexless, then a year of good regular sex, then 3 months with nothing again. Do you know why? Is there an issue in your marriage that you are not talking about, is she punishing you for something, is there something going on with her that is causing her to pull back. Telling her she needs to have sex with you is a risky move - she might get angry and pull further away and it might create a gap that is just too hard to bridge. On the other hand, there is a risk that if you do nothing 3 months will turn into a year and at that point you are really in trouble. Maybe you can talk to her about your marriage in general and how you are both feeling about it, rather than diving straight into complaining about sex. There is an issue in my marriage but it it does not warrant complete shutdown of intimacy. We argue and fight sometimes like every couple but with her it very difficult to get over things. We are already over the issue, seemingly, we hold hands when we walk somewhere and we talk about different things etc. The problem is that she drew the line and I can't cross it. Like I said we had this before when we do everything together but sex is out of the question. It drives me nuts. My mood goes up and down and she can also be very moody. I still have hope but it is becoming more difficult as time goes by. I'm aware that I cannot rush things and l try to subtly suggest some closeness. Today the weather was crappy and I know her mood can be down so I got her flowers. Her favorite, roses.
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Post by wom360 on Nov 24, 2016 23:46:05 GMT -5
Today the weather was crappy and I know her mood can be down so I got her flowers. Her favorite, roses. Consequences. What this is, is rewarding bad behavior. It's a fail. We teach people how to treat us. You're teaching her to withhold.
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Post by wom360 on Nov 24, 2016 23:50:32 GMT -5
If you won't divorce or cheat you might as well do something that has a chance of working. Buying roses ain't it. How many times have you bought roses or done dishes or given a back rub and had it not work?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2016 23:59:14 GMT -5
If you won't divorce or cheat you might as well do something that has a chance of working. Buying roses ain't it. How many times have you bought roses or done dishes or given a back rub and had it not work? I have not lost all hope. And back rub has worked before but this time it may take a while.
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Post by DryCreek on Nov 25, 2016 1:00:57 GMT -5
@arthur, I'm not trying to press you into doing something you're not prepared for, but you need to be aware of where this leads. Whether intentional by either party, wom360 is very accurate - how we respond to situations determines what we teach them. And whether they're acting intentionally, they will subconsciously learn the cause = effect. It is a very sticky situation, and most of us have been there. Make an issue out of it, and sex becomes a point of contention and pressure is observed even where none is being applied. But if you back off and accept things as they are hoping they'll turn around, you are reinforcing that the current behavior is normal. Even worse when you try to coax them (or redeem yourself for imagined wrongs), it becomes a game where you are now being manipulated, and you've set yourself up. Again, even if not intentional on either side, this is the formula you are creating. Trust me on this... being passive and/or trying to right imaginary wrongs sets a bad precedent and establishes a new "normalcy" that you will regret. I've been stuck in this trap for 25+ years, and it gets much harder to correct as time goes on. Bottom line, truthfully, *nothing* you can do will motivate her to change. She has to want intimacy with you and sincerely work to improve it. It's on her. What you can do... be the best Arthur you can be. Be kind, thoughtful, considerate. Do therapy for yourself to help this journey. But in the end the only thing you can control in this dynamic is your escape. Be the best person you can be - if that's not good enough for her then accept it and deal with it.
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Post by petrushka on Nov 25, 2016 4:13:18 GMT -5
I wonder if crying has ever worked for a sexless man... No. Nor does it work for women when it comes to dealing with a refuser - at least if the narrative of our female members is to be believed - and I have no reason to doubt them.
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Post by petrushka on Nov 25, 2016 4:35:25 GMT -5
A few posits here Arthur:
If you have a fight that results in one person shutting the other down, then you need to work on that. Because either the refuesee has genuinely hurt the refuser to the point of eroding their trust and ease, or the refuser is exhibiting punishing manipulating behaviour trying to remodel the refused.
And 'rearranging your mate' is not a valid behaviour in an adult relationship. (plus, it never works)
So maybe you guys need to learn to thresh things out civilly without things turning into a fight. Most fights can be headed off by speaking out in good time to resolve whatever kind of issue before it becomes the object of a fight, and also good communication habits can be learned. Like listening properly, hearing the other out, not talking over the top of the other person, and trying to see things from their angle. Not making assumptions and not getting defensive: this is the person you're (she is) supposed to spend your/her life with, this is the person who is supposed to trust you and whom you should be able to trust.
What she is practicing at the moment is, without a doubt, abusive behaviour.
Unlike what someone up-thread suggested, I do not believe that being subjected to abuse does in any way justify being abusive in turn. Being loud and angry and abusive is not going to make anyone love you. It will certainly not resolve a situation constructively.
However I don't advocate just holding still or turning into a doormat, getting on the hamsterwheel of trying to please her into forgiving you "graciously" after an unspecified time on her terms, pulling your strings and giving you ulcers in the process.
What I would do is sit her down and ask her if she is actually still interested in pursuing this relationship as a relationship since her behaviour indicates that she's detaching and withdrawing. Be prepared to not hear what you want to hear - but better listen what she has to say. And believe what she says.
I had that conversation with my wife. I will need to have another one at some point - where I ask her what it is that she actually wants out of this relationship, and exactly why it is that she does not trust me to the point of avoiding intimacy and passion. (I know it, theoretically, but this needs to come on the table and be dealt with; because at the moment we're loving at cross-purposes).
And Baz of course is entirely right, you have many choices, and you have to figure out which one is the good one you can live with, because of all of us here you are the one who will have to live with your choice. But it does not sound to me that you're doing too well, emotionally, with the current state of affairs. If it's making you sick (insomnia in the least) then you should take care to change something, even if it's just what you expect from your wife.
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Post by JonDoe on Nov 25, 2016 6:32:58 GMT -5
Most fights can be headed off by speaking out in good time to resolve whatever kind of issue before it becomes the object of a fight, and also good communication habits can be learned. Like listening properly, hearing the other out, not talking over the top of the other person, and trying to see things from their angle. Not making assumptions and not getting defensive: this is the person you're (she is) supposed to spend your/her life with, this is the person who is supposed to trust you and whom you should be able to trust. What she is practicing at the moment is, without a doubt, abusive behaviour. Those are wise words. I've tried to convince my wife of this for the better part of twenty years, but she only seems to get worse. I no longer think it is possible in my failed marriage. I wish you and others the best in your pursuit of the same.
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