Submit feels like a dirty word!

"Submit" is a loaded word. In many contexts, it speaks of shame and humiliation. But in certain contexts best spoken of in the Sexually Speaking area, it could be - interesting.

As for giving pleasure.....  I agree with this.  The whole idea is to make your partner happy and make life enjoyable.  Yes it is sooo much fun!!!   I am a bit submissive myself when it comes to this. 

Hmm.. GC - I actually think this is an important discussion in this group.

I tried this exact thing with my H - but I fear it was too little too late. Here is an old EP story about it:

www.experienceproject.com/stories/Live-In-A-Sexless-Marriage/5467662

Not sure if the link works, y'all.

I, too, have a hard time with submission. And to be honest, I am not sure when I became controlling. I am not sure if I am the chicken or the egg. If I am being honest, the "big nasty" we had 11 years ago - the incident I suspect was the watershed leading to the downward spiral of my marriage - could have been avoided if I had been a more submissive wife and not entirely my own person. We never had clearly defined roles and we never had discussions about it, so I try really hard not to be too hard on myself about it. In my 20s, I was a feminist - and in all the misguided ways.

And, let's be honest, I had to step up when things went south because I had no choice. It was that or the power got cut off. That's an oversimplification, but should get the point across.

Actually ignoring him now and not getting in his space has improved the way he handles things now. He takes some things on himself and only withholds the things that are important to me - ie - family finances, sex, yard work, help with the kids more than what he would normally do. He has actually taken on side jobs to make more money for the family and gone out of his way to only tell me afterwards. The things he withholds from me, all of these years, I see as punishments now.

These things are things I know he doesn't even realize. He is a child of abuse, verbal and physical. He lives in the shallows of the ocean and there is no regular deep sea, there is only the abyss. He won't go there. I triggered something in his abyss and I will never get him back.

It is no longer my problem.

Anyway - I do wish that more people in their 20s explored these roles in pre-marital counseling. I wish the Biblical parts of it were taken out because it takes so long to unpack it and make it make sense, that I cannot even properly explain it. This article explained it better than most.

It is not about the sex. It is about respect and the different needs of each party.

In my case, it's also about trusting him to be a leader. I no longer can do that, just as I cannot make him figure this out for himself.

Once you jump off that train, it's pretty hard to run and jump back on it.

This is a pretty good article. Here's the thing - if neither of you are particularly religious, these thoughts never crossed your mind in the beginning and the roles were never clearly defined from the get-go, then it is doomed.

That has been our problem. That and he cannot communicate how he feels or what he is thinking because of past abuse. He just shuts down. I guess, for me, these would be discussions I would have to have with the next one. And well before any relationship was truly serious.

It's an interesting roadmap, and although I (again) understand why it is Biblical, that part does not get it for me. I am interested in rereading it for clarity though! Thanks GC.

I agree. Religion seems to make a woman less of a human than that of man. That sounds like the attitude of a narcissist to me.

GC - I think people get so very hung up on it being Biblical and I think the way you explained it here was a good way to explain it.