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Post by catonapillow on Oct 19, 2016 2:13:10 GMT -5
Forgive the abrupt beginning. This is my first time posting here in the new forum. As it was, I hadn't posted in the old forum in QUITE some time anyway. Perhaps at some point, I will post my old story here, but it is quite long. For now, suffice to say, I separated from my ex refuser husband just over two years ago, and we've now been divorced about ten months. This is progress, yes? Well, as it turns out, not so much. After many sexless married years, I thought I was being very careful in selecting dating partners. I met a man who seemed to share, in equal measure, my sexual passion and curiosity. He, too, was from a recent sexless marriage. We explored many, many things together, and fell in love in the process. It's been almost two years, and we're living together with my 6 year old daughter. The little blended family we've made is quite lovely. I love him tremendously. We are incredibly compatible in so many ways, and I can't imagine my life without him. Things are not quite what they seemed in the beginning, however. Not at all. Around the six month mark, his passion and desire began to decline. I want to be perfectly clear here. I am not a sex maniac! I am a reasonable woman! Yes, I would LOVE to have sex multiple times a day, but I know that for most people that is just too much. I don't expect that, and I am still very happy with less. I am a 38 year old woman, he is 51. I understand there are going to be certain issues. I am not unrealistic. Over a period of months, frequency declined from nearly every day, and sometimes multiple times a day, to a few times a week, to once a week, to once every couple weeks, and then finally, to a random frequency ranging from once every 2 to 5 weeks. Passion declined as well, and other sexual issues that I didn't notice early on, became apparent. He began kissing me less outside of the bedroom, not at all during sex, and foreplay became all but non-existent. I enjoy what we DO do together, but I need more than just P in the V. I try to talk to him about it, but he gets defensive, and bringing it up only seems to make things worse. We have been to see a couple different therapists, and the one we're seeing now is pretty good, and I do think we're making some progress. Right now our frequency is up to maybe once a week, generously rounding up, but my satisfaction is still way down. Part of the problem is that I am far more sexually experienced than he is. This is where our problem departs from the kinds of things you can read about in self-help books, and suddenly we're on our own, in no-man's-land. His sexual experiences are limited to his refuser ex wife, and "providers." That is it. He never learned how to have partner sex. While we were all bumbling around in our teens or 20s, figuring out what went where, and what we can and can't and should and shouldn't do, and what people like and don't like - he never got that! He had a wife who just laid there, and then a series of providers who gave him "experiences." When I try to show him how to go slowly, and to focus on different parts of my body, he gets impatient, like a little boy. I'm completely frustrated, and he thinks the kind of sex I want to have is "movie sex," and real people don't actually roll around and kiss and touch each other like that. I'm boggled. Is it possible to re-teach a man in his 50s how to have sex? Am I wasting my time? I guess what I'm so frustrated by, and what I keep coming back to is this: I thought I did everything right this time! I thought I picked a good one! All the signs were there, but I feel like I was tricked! He turned out not to be who he seemed to be, or maybe even who he thought he was. Maybe he didn't see it coming either. What the heck happened? I still want him in every way possible, but it's hard to want someone who appears to feel lukewarm about you. It's painful to be so in love and lust with someone who just cannot return that passion. He claims to feel the same way about me as he always has, and that his waning desire is not for me specifically. He says that whenever he does feel desire, it's always for me, and he acts on it. I suppose that is a very small comfort, if I can truly trust and believe it. So here I am again. In a relationship where I feel ashamed of my libido, and I'm afraid to ask for what I want. How much rejection is a person expected to endure in a lifetime? Why the hell am I here again?
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Post by baza on Oct 19, 2016 2:32:33 GMT -5
This reads like he was good on the "quantity" early days, but the undercurrent I get is that the "quality" was never there. - If this is so, then I would have grave doubts that you can "teach" or "lead" him toward "love making" as oppossed to perfunctory mechanical straight rooting. You mention that thus far he has been entirely resistant to your suggestions / requests / guidance. At 51 that seems unlikely to change. - But, might be worth seeing a sex therapist, might be worth obtaining appropriate books, video's what have you. But if he baulks at that idea, I reckon what you've got here is as good as it is going to get. - Would that be a dealbreaker for you ? - PS - Not that this is particularly relevant, but it might also be that his ex missus was not a classic refuser either. She perhaps got turned off by his inept version of sex
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Post by jim44444 on Oct 19, 2016 6:22:40 GMT -5
Are you wasting your time? If you can live without a satisfying sex life than you are not wasting your time. If you are ashamed of your libido and are afraid to ask for what you want then you are not in a relationship, you are in an arrangement. You are providing him "experiences" when he wants them. This is not the role model to give yourdaughter.
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Post by unmatched on Oct 19, 2016 8:01:40 GMT -5
I guess what worries me the most is not so much that he is inept, which might be understandable, but that he seems to have no interest in learning to do it better or in actual intimacy. Is he like that elsewhere as well? I imagine most people can do sex for the first couple of years of a relationship, while it is new and hormones are running high. To sustain it though, you need an interest in really connecting with your partner and in growing together and learning from each other. Without that sex will inevitably get stale and drop off, and your long term prospects aren't great.
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Post by beachguy on Oct 19, 2016 8:33:04 GMT -5
I guess what worries me the most is not so much that he is inept, which might be understandable, but that he seems to have no interest in learning to do it better or in actual intimacy. Is he like that elsewhere as well? I imagine most people can do sex for the first couple of years of a relationship, while it is new and hormones are running high. To sustain it though, you need an interest in really connecting with your partner and in growing together and learning from each other. Without that sex will inevitably get stale and drop off, and your long term prospects aren't great. In fact the ineptness appears to be an excuse to avoid sex except the odd occasion that he has a need to get himself off, and he does that with a minimal effort
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Post by DryCreek on Oct 19, 2016 10:08:53 GMT -5
catonapillow... first, welcome! Speaking as a guy approaching 50, I'd relish the opportunity to be taught new and different ways to please my partner. To become better at something that brings us together intimately would be incredibly rewarding. So, yes, I think your expectations are reasonable. This is a stretch, and surely a therapist has suggested it already, but has he had his testosterone levels checked? If he's even approaching the low end of normal, it may be too low for him. But more fundamentally, I'd be bothered by his attitude toward learning. Is his ego too big to admit he might not know everything that excites *this particular woman*? Few things are universal, and adapting is essential.
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Post by bballgirl on Oct 19, 2016 13:07:31 GMT -5
Welcome! I'm so sorry to hear you are in this mess again. Some things you wrote that stood out were:
I feel tricked, he thinks normal people don't have sex like in the movies, the decline in sex and you are both coming out of a SM, no kissing during sex, no kissing outside of the bedroom, you guys are in counseling, my satisfaction is way down, he gets impatient like a little boy (that's selfish).
It almost sounds like he doesn't enjoy sex anymore in a giving way only for his pleasure to get off. Can you teach a man in his 50's HOW to have sex? I guess but he has to really want to learn. He has to enjoy sex. I think that when it comes to sex it might change for different people at different times the way they are wired or what they are attracted to. I saw that with my refuser. When I met him he was still selfish but he was into a little kink and then after the honeymoon down to once a month duty sex.
Your questions:
So here I am again. In a relationship where I feel ashamed of my libido, and I'm afraid to ask for what I want.
There is no reason to feel ashamed of your libido. If he makes you feel this way then he is not the right one for you.
How much rejection is a person expected to endure in a lifetime?
As much as they will allow. Time to lay the cards on the table and let him know that you are willing to compromise, maybe you guys should go see a female sex therapist, he needs to find the man that you fell in love with or else we all know how this ends up and that's an informed choice he's making.
Why the hell am I here again? I don't think it's so uncommon when people get comfortable and start to take things for granted. I think it's a little bit of human nature and laziness on his part.
Maybe shoot him a sexy text and see how he responds. Include some things you want him to do to you. If he avoids and doesn't follow through then tomorrow you can springboard off of it with The Talk. Good luck and Hugs.
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Post by wewbwb on Oct 19, 2016 13:27:36 GMT -5
You cannot teach a man in his 50's anything. But a man in his 50's can learn.
If he wants to learn what and how to satisfy you, he will. (Awesome, that you WANT to show him BTW)
This is a "fork in the road" moment. (actually a + intersection) You're three choice (as I see them) 1- stay and work on it, with him to improve communication and performance (There's a pill for that now) 2- leave 3- deal with it.
#1 is the hardest.
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Post by becca on Oct 19, 2016 14:47:35 GMT -5
Welcome, catonapillow. I have to be completely honest here and say your post scared the bejeezus out of me. The thought of traveling this road again in a new relationship and being denied and neglected again is frightening. I feel your pain. It sounds like your new man may need to just put his ego aside. What a gift you are offering him to guide and teach him the ways to please a woman. Most men would die for that! Also, he could be suffering from Low T and that is easily fixable but again, requires him to put his ego aside. He needs to at least be willing to listen to you and toss out his "movie sex" ideas. If you want 20 minutes of kissing foreplay, then he should damn well be willing to offer you that. It is a partnership. It sounds like you love this man so I hope that you are able to find answers for your situation. For what it is worth, you are definitely in a place with people who understand and empathize with you.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2016 18:23:49 GMT -5
He bait and switched you so he's not such a wonderful man. Thank God you didn't get married.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2016 18:38:25 GMT -5
I guess what worries me the most is not so much that he is inept, which might be understandable, but that he seems to have no interest in learning to do it better or in actual intimacy. Is he like that elsewhere as well? I imagine most people can do sex for the first couple of years of a relationship, while it is new and hormones are running high. To sustain it though, you need an interest in really connecting with your partner and in growing together and learning from each other. Without that sex will inevitably get stale and drop off, and your long term prospects aren't great. His unwillingness to try new things and let 'er rip hints at, uh oh, intimacy aversion. To have passionate sex you have to let your guard down and take risks. Perfunctory mechanical sex is safe. Yeah could just be his ego but if his ego is that big and fragile, again, is this really such a great relationship?
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Post by unmatched on Oct 19, 2016 18:43:27 GMT -5
I guess what worries me the most is not so much that he is inept, which might be understandable, but that he seems to have no interest in learning to do it better or in actual intimacy. Is he like that elsewhere as well? I imagine most people can do sex for the first couple of years of a relationship, while it is new and hormones are running high. To sustain it though, you need an interest in really connecting with your partner and in growing together and learning from each other. Without that sex will inevitably get stale and drop off, and your long term prospects aren't great. His unwillingness to try new things and let 'er tip hints at, uh oh, intimacy aversion. To have passionate sex you have to let your guard down and take risks. Perfunctory mechanical sex is safe. Yeah could just be his ego but if his ego is that big and fragile, again, is this really such a great relationship? I wondered that too...
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Post by catonapillow on Oct 19, 2016 21:59:53 GMT -5
Thank you all for your replies! I've been out all day, and I'm a bit stunned at the response. I will get down to addressing your replies and questions ASAP (aka - as soon as the kid is thoroughly settled).
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Post by GeekGoddess on Oct 19, 2016 22:56:13 GMT -5
Thank you all for your replies! I've been out all day, and I'm a bit stunned at the response. I will get down to addressing your replies and questions ASAP (aka - as soon as the kid is thoroughly settled). On a logistics front - check out Alina Rivers - she's a v-blog sort of sex therapist. Her pieces are often female-centric but she has offerings for each gender. Even better is Layla Martin - her work tends to focus on the couple (rather than one or the other) - she emphasizes the spiritual & tantric nature of great sex. I've no idea if he is willing to get as vulnerable as he would need to be to make improvements. You may be a hot young ego boost to show the world his powers? Good luck sorting this out though - because your post DID scare the bejeezus out of me too!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2016 7:24:51 GMT -5
Hindsight is 20/20, but were there some things you can look back on now and see as red flags?
So many bait and switches in this community. For some reason we ignore the warning signs. My ex believes I am a homosexual, which should have given me a clue as to what she expected sexually. But I just brushed it off. She gave me sex without pressure, which was irresistible because my previous lover was by her own admission insatiable and demanded sledgehammer sex every time.
Maybe we find something irresistible so we close our eyes to the rest.
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