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Post by wewbwb on Oct 6, 2016 10:19:00 GMT -5
This thread can easily be in "other Relationships" but I feel "off topic works just as well. The "Friend Zone" has cropped up on some boards here. The views and opinions expressed here are mine solely and do not reflect the opinions of anyone else nor should the be considered the "Truth". While I have been "Friend Zoned" by more than one person in my life, I am better for it. I have learned to love the person. Not the "idea" of the person. I do not love a person with the expectation that they need to love me back. Neither do they have to view our relationship and situation the same as I do. That's not love, that's control. I have had lovers become some of my closest friends. I want them to be fulfilled. Because I love them. With or without me as their lover. I have had friends become lovers. These are the best lovers I've known. When you are already laid bare, when she knows my demons and CHOOSES to love me anyway? That is something that is magical. baza Has stated in another thread, "It is always interesting to see how, in people, they may present as one thing, but in time reveal themselves as actually something else." There is truth in this. Getting to know someone as a "friend" first will avoid this. If you are looking for a relationship, it's much better to know who they REALLY are before committing. Maybe if I was better friends with the "Frigidaire" we would be on the same page about our lives and expectations. Do you work as a couple? Are you compatible? Do you really LIKE the person? Do you want to just sit and talk to them? How about after six months? A year? The rest of your life? Because we all know, you spend more time in a relationship doing this then parasailing. It's easy to get along when there are distractions. How about when they aren't there? Now here's the really important question: Are you her friend because you want sex or because you genuinely like/ love the person? Because if you're just trying to get in her pants: A- YOU are a lousy friend B- SHE was right to friend zone you - because your "true colors" came out. Now let me make something clear. If you really love a person, you will find a way to stay in their life, in a manner that supports them. No excuses. No ulterior motive. Complete support. Prove that you are WORTHY of her love. (An old fashion idea I know) |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2016 14:17:29 GMT -5
wewbwb - That makes so much sense! Friendzoning is almost always spoken of as something women do to men. Yet - when a woman is interested in a man who does not return her feelings - she doesn't use a word like "friendzoning" to describe it. She usually goes away quietly and doesn't bother him anymore and pretends everything is just fine. Why this difference? Why are disappointed men allowed to complain about being friendzoned, but disappointed women are expected to pretend it doesn't hurt them? The truth is - whether you are male or female (or something else) - and no matter how good-looking, rich, or nice you are - at some point, you will want somebody who just isn't into you. Nobody is exempt. IMHO, if a man is not into me, I would much prefer to deal with that as early as possible. Yes, you can "give someone a fair chance" - but ultimately, you cannot force yourself to want someone whom you only like platonically. Some things just can't be forced, and romantic attraction is one of them. Trying to force it just makes everybody feel worse. It's better to just let go of that idea, and try to look ahead to another possibility.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2016 14:24:18 GMT -5
Just don't be a nice guy... that's what I am....it's all I am....and people (M&W) will always take advantage of that ...
I need to be more of an asshole....even around here....heck ....a lot of u already think that....gonna keep working at that....
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Post by cagedtiger on Oct 6, 2016 14:51:24 GMT -5
Just don't be a nice guy... that's what I am....it's all I am....and people (M&W) will always take advantage of that ... I need to be more of an asshole....even around here....heck ....a lot of u already think that....gonna keep working at that.... No. You're missing the point. Being nice doesn't mean letting people take advantage of you. It's possible to be nice and not be a doormat. Actually, it's even easier being nice to people when you stand up for yourself and don't let them abuse your kindness- there's no underlying resentment on your part that festers and builds and contaminates your thoughts and intentions. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2016 15:00:17 GMT -5
Just don't be a nice guy... that's what I am....it's all I am....and people (M&W) will always take advantage of that ... I need to be more of an asshole....even around here....heck ....a lot of u already think that....gonna keep working at that.... No. You're missing the point. Being nice doesn't mean letting people take advantage of you. It's possible to be nice and not be a doormat. Actually, it's even easier being nice to people when you stand up for yourself and don't let them abuse your kindness- there's no underlying resentment on your part that festers and builds and contaminates your thoughts and intentions. It only Fester's and builds if it goes on. Most people enter and leave my life quickly....and any SM is full of resentment....if I wasn't a nice guy, I would have left years ago... I have only found two notches in my personality....nice... and asshole. |
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Post by baza on Oct 6, 2016 20:58:25 GMT -5
LaoTzu, Boroak, Hevac, ItsJustUs, SleeplessKnight, Keefy, to name just a few escapee blokes.
All very nice people.
All made the choice to get out of their ILIASM shitholes.
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Being a nice person need not be - indeed is not - a condition that precludes you from leaving an ILIASM shithole.
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That's not to say you "should" leave.
As ever, that choice is yours alone to make or not make.
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But if you are examining your own mindset to explore "why" you are staying, you can pretty much eliminate "being a nice guy" as the reason.
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And, it might be worth putting the description one has assigned oneself to a searching examination for its' veracity.
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Post by GeekGoddess on Oct 7, 2016 8:53:04 GMT -5
wewbwb & @smartkat - I love both your inputs here. This is something I am still learning (or unlearning from the manipulation training performed in an SM). In my program, I am making a lot of friends - most platonic. That is - there are a few folks I'd like to get to know better and/or potentially date (very small percentage actually) but I'm fully aware when a situation comes up that requires the unconditional love & support that our program is about. Recently - - I saw one of my program fellows on match.com. I didn't wink or email there but I did look forward to seeing him again in the rooms to ask about if he would want to go out to dinner (a.k.a. - a practice date) - I know he has young kids and I am not romantically interested but we knew each other well enough to broach the conversation and we didn't know each other that well, so I thought it would be a good exercise in meeting & getting to know someone (make me more comfortable trying that with a total stranger). I saw him once after I had these thoughts but the meeting was busy and I didn't get a chance to ask -- - and then I didn't see him again. I didn't know if his work schedule changed or what exactly. A month later, he's back and I thought...well, okay, maybe I'll see if I can bring it up but....he'd relapsed and been in treatment - and immediately "my agenda" went to the side and my truly supportive "I only want what is best for you as a person" came to the front. I hadn't realized UNTIL then what I had been doing - - hatching my own plans involving the other person without any input on their part, without any knowledge of what they actually had going on in their lives. (This is how my Ex treated me all the time - he would "inform me" of his plan AND MY ROLE IN IT - and it pissed me off when he did that. I had to admit - here I was doing the same thing) It was an eye-opener and a bit startling at that. It made me realize that, at that time, I was NOT as ready to try dating as I had thought I was. Now, I am better at not doing this (but do have a crush). It takes some pretty serious self-knowledge to realize when it is happening. Maybe not constant vigilance but it IS a sneaky phenomenon, so I have to remember to be on the lookout for it. Your comments (both of you) hold excellent wisdom I needed to see (& hear again). Thanks!
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Post by wewbwb on Oct 7, 2016 9:37:54 GMT -5
GeekGoddessPlease don't ever consider me wise. It sets us both up for failure. Also, it's a lot of pressure.  Besides, I'm not - I just made a lot of stupid mistakes and try not to make them again. I can give you a list.....
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2016 15:37:57 GMT -5
I'm not "wise" either - except in the sense of never knowing what I need to know, until it's too late.
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Post by GeekGoddess on Oct 7, 2016 19:16:06 GMT -5
GeekGoddess Please don't ever consider me wise. It sets us both up for failure. Also, it's a lot of pressure. Besides, I'm not - I just made a lot of stupid mistakes and try not to make them again. I can give you a list..... Oh I didn't say YOU were wise - the COMMENTS contained excellent wisdom, nonetheless. LOL |
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Post by greatcoastal on Oct 7, 2016 19:25:12 GMT -5
Does that mean you're NOT a wiseguy?
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Post by wewbwb on Oct 7, 2016 20:45:08 GMT -5
GeekGoddess Please don't ever consider me wise. It sets us both up for failure. Also, it's a lot of pressure. Besides, I'm not - I just made a lot of stupid mistakes and try not to make them again. I can give you a list..... Oh I didn't say YOU were wise - the COMMENTS contained excellent wisdom, nonetheless. LOL Whew. Good. That was close. |
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Post by wewbwb on Oct 7, 2016 20:45:47 GMT -5
Does that mean you're NOT a wiseguy? We don't talk about that. |
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Post by obobfla on Oct 8, 2016 0:00:58 GMT -5
Ok, I meant to speak on this on other posts. I have been in the "friend zone" more times than I care to be. And I can honestly say while it's not my first choice, it's not a bad place to be.
One of my closest friends is a very attractive woman my age. She dated a roommate of mine 20 years ago as I was getting sober. We chatted about a lot of things, and after she broke it off with him, we stayed close. Even after she moved several times, we still talk weekly. When we talk, nothing is off the table. We have shared about sex, sobriety, marriage, affairs, masturbation, careers, and even bathroom habits.
There are many times I would have loved to have sex with her. But I know it would screw up our friendship. We would never last as a couple. I know what she wants in a male life partner, and she knows what I want in a female partner. It's not each other. But I would go to the ends of the earth for her if I could.
I have had several female roommates and a few female best friends. All were attractive women who I never had sex with. There are a few regrets, but not many. While my current marriage is nothing to write home about, I know that if I had pursued a sexual relationship, it would have been heartbreaking. But the best part about all of these friends is that they helped me become a better man and a better lover because of it. I told my wife that she owes all these women a lot of thanks.
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Post by JMX on Oct 8, 2016 20:19:56 GMT -5
Just don't be a nice guy... that's what I am....it's all I am....and people (M&W) will always take advantage of that ... I need to be more of an asshole....even around here....heck ....a lot of u already think that....gonna keep working at that.... I am not sure how to candy-coat this so I will try but probably end up being my blunt self here. Roch - some of your comments in the past about never being able to hook up with women you find attractive, or this comment leave me scratching my head. Sometimes, I feel like your comments or your stories are lacking in the wanting of a person for who they are, or a connection. I get that you need to be attracted to them, I really do get that, but I never hear any longing for the emotional connection in your "voice". I think you have the idea of a "nice guy" all wrong as baza and cagedtiger have articulated far better than I have. Do you have any emotional connections with people? Connections that reach beyond what someone can do for you, your situation or your finances? Can you work on that part and see what happens? I just never feel any "warmth" from your words. |
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