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Post by DryCreek on Apr 11, 2016 11:26:38 GMT -5
Whenever do we have the opportunity for someone to know our inner qualities? It takes getting to know someone over time. I don't know how that happens in this drive by fast everything kind of world we live in. Agreed. It takes a different approach. Whether one is hot or not, if the goal is to be seen for more than superficial attributes, then the setting / activities need to support that goal. And, yes, it also means a lot more time investment. Taking Mettamomma's example, her guy was a friend from her theater troupe before they started dating. That's the kind of scenario that lends itself to seeing someone's deeper qualities (as well as getting a view behind their dating façade). In contrast, the online / drive-by / window-shopping approach to dating inherently focuses on appearance and superficial qualities as the first cut - if that's not a winning game for you, then change the game. That is, get out and do the things you're passionate or curious about. Find the ones that attract the right type of guys (e.g., viable age range, straight, etc.). Seek out friendships while doing those things, then see if those friendships can become something more. In the process, you may also find the sweet spot for qualifying activities is a different part of town. (e.g., having coffee with a guy to chat in a non-dating context is a great example of branching out from a common area of interest) Spoiler alert: I'm not hot. I would never be mistaken for a male model, and no woman has ever been interested unless she knew me first. The challenge you describe is the only reality I know, yet I still managed to have relationships. I can appreciate that the game might have been different in your past, but it's not the only approach. So, my advice is, play to the approach that suits your strengths. If the game doesn't suit you, change the game! |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2016 12:53:20 GMT -5
Whenever do we have the opportunity for someone to know our inner qualities? It takes getting to know someone over time. I don't know how that happens in this drive by fast everything kind of world we live in. Agreed. It takes a different approach. Whether one is hot or not, if the goal is to be seen for more than superficial attributes, then the setting / activities need to support that goal. And, yes, it also means a lot more time investment. Taking Mettamomma's example, her guy was a friend from her theater troupe before they started dating. That's the kind of scenario that lends itself to seeing someone's deeper qualities (as well as getting a view behind their dating façade). In contrast, the online / drive-by / window-shopping approach to dating inherently focuses on appearance and superficial qualities as the first cut - if that's not a winning game for you, then change the game. That is, get out and do the things you're passionate or curious about. Find the ones that attract the right type of guys (e.g., viable age range, straight, etc.). Seek out friendships while doing those things, then see if those friendships can become something more. In the process, you may also find the sweet spot for qualifying activities is a different part of town. (e.g., having coffee with a guy to chat in a non-dating context is a great example of branching out from a common area of interest) Spoiler alert: I'm not hot. I would never be mistaken for a male model, and no woman has ever been interested unless she knew me first. The challenge you describe is the only reality I know, yet I still managed to have relationships. I can appreciate that the game might have been different in your past, but it's not the only approach. So, my advice is, play to the approach that suits your strengths. If the game doesn't suit you, change the game! LoL, DC, This is all good advice. The reason I'm laughing is your last line about my approach and the game. I don't have an approach or a game, let alone know how to change it.  The truth is, I do nothing to attract male attention. I am just my natural self with everyone I come across...male and female alike. When I'm depressed and need quiet time, I tend to keep to myself to rest my mind. When I feel good, I engage anyone in conversation. There was a man that drew my attention at church one day some months ago...I won't say why...someone may recognize themselves. I went up after the service to introduce myself (I'm not shy at introducing myself), then I went to talk to some other people. Somehow, he ended up being in my orbit...standing right next to me and listening to me talk to another man about some current topic, and then suddenly we (just the two of us) were in deep conversation about a mutual interest. I was being called away by someone, so had to leave. I don't know if he was married or not, but I suppose if I have an approach it's this...I just let a meeting occur naturally rather than pursue anyone. If I am ugly, would a man want to stand there chatting with me? Maybe they like what I have to say, so it doesn't matter what I look like. I don't know. The point is until...and if...I feel confident in my own looks (which basically means accepting that I now look old...and all the changes that have come with that) I won't be dating anyone regardless if they find me attractive or not. I have to find me attractive, and right now, I don't. |
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Post by DryCreek on Apr 11, 2016 13:27:39 GMT -5
LoL, DC, This is all good advice. The reason I'm laughing is your last line about my approach and the game. I don't have an approach or a game, let alone know how to change it.  I see your point. My point is that your frame of reference is a "dating game" that you believe no longer works to your advantage - but there is more than one philosophy to dating, so adopt one that does work to your advantage. e.g., If I'm competing against millionaires and models, you'd better believe I gotta find an angle that shows my qualities in the best light. (I battle this all the time in business too.) To be blunt, yes. To use an analogy, physical attraction is the window dressing that gets a prospect into the store; they still have to like what they find. Meanwhile, more emotionally mature guys realize that gems can be found in all kinds of places, and don't use the window dressing to decide where they should look. |
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Post by DryCreek on Apr 11, 2016 13:47:55 GMT -5
The point is until...and if...I feel confident in my own looks (which basically means accepting that I now look old...and all the changes that have come with that) I won't be dating anyone regardless if they find me attractive or not. I have to find me attractive, and right now, I don't. Fair enough. If you have self-confidence issues, then it'll certainly get in the way of believing that someone else might find you interesting. (Conversely, someone interested in you can do worlds of good for self-esteem.) I will say this...none of us will ever be as hot as we once were. That includes the guys you might date. I find that easy to accept, but probably because I didn't have much to lose!  I think a lot of it is about accepting that some people will find you attractive, and the ones who don't aren't relevant. For every body type, there are people out there who either find it attractive or are indifferent. We tend to measure ourselves against unrealistic or irrelevant standards; others don't. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2016 14:57:21 GMT -5
LoL, DC, This is all good advice. The reason I'm laughing is your last line about my approach and the game. I don't have an approach or a game, let alone know how to change it. I see your point. My point is that your frame of reference is a "dating game" that you believe no longer works to your advantage - but there is more than one philosophy to dating, so adopt one that does work to your advantage. e.g., If I'm competing against millionaires and models, you'd better believe I gotta find an angle that shows my qualities in the best light. (I battle this all the time in business too.) To be blunt, yes. To use an analogy, physical attraction is the window dressing that gets a prospect into the store; they still have to like what they find. Meanwhile, more emotionally mature guys realize that gems can be found in all kinds of places, and don't use the window dressing to decide where they should look. I don't want to date, so I don't need an advantage. Like I said, things happen naturally for me, or they don't. I'd rather be lonely than make myself an exhibit for men. I have no angle, and I don't intend to have one. My angle is being me and living my life in each moment. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2016 14:59:47 GMT -5
The point is until...and if...I feel confident in my own looks (which basically means accepting that I now look old...and all the changes that have come with that) I won't be dating anyone regardless if they find me attractive or not. I have to find me attractive, and right now, I don't. Fair enough. If you have self-confidence issues, then it'll certainly get in the way of believing that someone else might find you interesting. (Conversely, someone interested in you can do worlds of good for self-esteem.) I will say this...none of us will ever be as hot as we once were. That includes the guys you might date. I find that easy to accept, but probably because I didn't have much to lose! I think a lot of it is about accepting that some people will find you attractive, and the ones who don't aren't relevant. For every body type, there are people out there who either find it attractive or are indifferent. We tend to measure ourselves against unrealistic or irrelevant standards; others don't. I think many people may find me interesting. One doesn't have to be attractive to be interesting. Two different things, DC. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2016 15:35:42 GMT -5
Jas (Car), Please accept my apologies in this regard. I know I wasn't the one that triggered this message, but I have made similar comments in the past back on EP.
But I thought I would throw the Pig's $.02 into this discussion just for fun.
"Hot" generally applies to physical appearance. Sure there are attitudes and other accouterments that can contribute to this moniker, but it's mostly a knee jerk reaction to someone's physical appearance. Some might say that 70+% of this is simply physical condition. Fitness. If I were to google "Hot Chick" or "Hot Guy", I would get pictures of fit men and women.
In the case of the woman formerly known as Carissimi, I have read many of the posts she has made with regard to what appears to be a very intense exercise regimen. Any woman capable of completing this type of exercise would have to be very fit. Regardless of what other detrimental physical qualities a woman might have, fitness at this level is considered hot by most men.
As many here have mentioned, belief in one's own hotness is not necessary for others to find you hot. And here's the worst part: Non-belief in your own hotmess may actually contribute somewhat to other's perception of your hotness. So, this can be a vicious circle. I think most of the men here would agree with me that most of the hottest women they have known were blithely unaware of their hotness!
So, I would suggest a little open mindedness and charity towards the ones that simply don't understand or are so neanderthal in their thinking as to just outwardly jump to the "Hot" moniker. Some of us are slow learners.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2016 17:35:42 GMT -5
I'm not asexual, Dan. I'm a sexual being who has repressed her sexual side to become non sexual. It's a coping mechanism. This I get -- I'm kind of going through a phase of the same thing. (At least, I hope I'm "passing through" this stage.) I driven myself to this point because a) I'm tired of the sexual rejection in my marriage, b) I'm tired of the effort it takes to find and maintain a side-relationship, c) if/when I do spring myself from my marriage, I don't want to start looking for a new life-companion feeling like I was the kind of guy who has just come off a long stint "cheating". (I want to be the kind of guy that the kind of woman I'd like to meet would like; "honest" being one of the features I'd want her to look for. And despite my occasional "outsourcing" in the past 15 years, I still feel like a very honest person.) I didn't equate anything with anything. When you said: I've made myself non sexual. It's a damn lonely life. It sounded to me like you were saying "being non-sexual means one will be lonely". I don't think that is true. If you agree with me, then I apologize for misreading you. Dan, excuse me if I've already responded to you. Trying to follow this thread on my phone is not easy, so I think I haven't yet. No, I didn't mean or equate what you thought I meant. Anyone can be lonely...sexual, non-sexual, asexual, or whatever...and vice versa. It's got nothing to do with the former. A non sexual may or may not be lonely. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2016 17:40:47 GMT -5
I feel the same way as Sand. I thought offering a different way of looking at things would be helpful - I never realized it could feel like I was negating your feelings. I am so sorry I did that! Thank you for staying here and explaining how this all feels to you. It helps me realize that what makes me feel better doesn't work for everyone. I really am sorry that I was insensitive to you - the last thing I want to do to anyone, especially anyone here, is to make them feel unheard or that their feelings aren't valid. No problem. I know that you, and everyone else that responded, meant well. I was hurting a lot the day I posted. I'm feeling good today. Thank you. |
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Post by itsjustus on Apr 29, 2016 18:54:56 GMT -5
I wish people would believe my reality. To negate what I say, negates me as a person and my intelligence. This is why I don't fit in here. No one will accept me as I am. Whatever I say about myself is always negated rather than accepted. It makes me feel even more alone not to be understood. My words are said with the utmost integrity and intelligence. Wow. Just wow. That's exactly the thing that bothers me as well. Whatever it is I say, it's a belief of mine, it's true to me. To negate it, negates me and my intelligence, or try's to fit me into some cliche. I do recognize that people are by nature caring and helpful, and when I say something negative about myself, its natural for them to want to be helpful. I truly appreciate it most times. But I like to think that I'm fairly intelligent and thoughtful in what I choose to believe. It can frustrate me, since I tend to let it slide. I now remember you and I went round and round on EP about physical attractiveness vs. depth, so I won't go back to that territory, but it is refreshing to find someone who thinks the same and is direct in saying it. And honestly? Kind of hot.... oops...sorry... (p.s. I know this was posted some time ago. Sorry for being late to the post...kind of catching up) |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2016 20:14:20 GMT -5
I wish people would believe my reality. To negate what I say, negates me as a person and my intelligence. This is why I don't fit in here. No one will accept me as I am. Whatever I say about myself is always negated rather than accepted. It makes me feel even more alone not to be understood. My words are said with the utmost integrity and intelligence. Wow. Just wow. That's exactly the thing that bothers me as well. Whatever it is I say, it's a belief of mine, it's true to me. To negate it, negates me and my intelligence, or try's to fit me into some cliche. I do recognize that people are by nature caring and helpful, and when I say something negative about myself, its natural for them to want to be helpful. I truly appreciate it most times. But I like to think that I'm fairly intelligent and thoughtful in what I choose to believe. It can frustrate me, since I tend to let it slide. I now remember you and I went round and round on EP about physical attractiveness vs. depth, so I won't go back to that territory, but it is refreshing to find someone who thinks the same and is direct in saying it. And honestly? Kind of hot.... oops...sorry... (p.s. I know this was posted some time ago. Sorry for being late to the post...kind of catching up) Lol You know I looked in the mirror earlier and noticed more lines on my face...a lot more. A month ago that would have had me feeling terrible, but now I just think, " heck, this is me as I am now...old looking...and that's okay." I earned ever line and wrinkle. It's just taken me awhile to start accepting that I'm no longer young and pretty. Coming out of a SM so late in life didn't help either, but I'm coming more to terms with these facts of life. I just needed time to adjust to many changes. |
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Post by itsjustus on Apr 29, 2016 20:25:31 GMT -5
Wow. Just wow. That's exactly the thing that bothers me as well. Whatever it is I say, it's a belief of mine, it's true to me. To negate it, negates me and my intelligence, or try's to fit me into some cliche. I do recognize that people are by nature caring and helpful, and when I say something negative about myself, its natural for them to want to be helpful. I truly appreciate it most times. But I like to think that I'm fairly intelligent and thoughtful in what I choose to believe. It can frustrate me, since I tend to let it slide. I now remember you and I went round and round on EP about physical attractiveness vs. depth, so I won't go back to that territory, but it is refreshing to find someone who thinks the same and is direct in saying it. And honestly? Kind of hot.... oops...sorry... (p.s. I know this was posted some time ago. Sorry for being late to the post...kind of catching up) Lol You know I looked in the mirror earlier and noticed more lines on my face...a lot more. A month ago that would have had me feeling terrible, but now I just think, " heck, this is me as I am now...old looking...and that's okay." I earned ever line and wrinkle. It's just taken me awhile to start accepting that I'm no longer young and pretty. Coming out of a SM so late in life didn't help either, but I'm coming more to terms with these facts of life. I just needed time to adjust to many changes. Ha! Tell me about it! Every freaken line and wrinkle..and more to come. I feel like saying "hey everything that doesn't kill me...I'm strong enough now. You can quit teaching me lessons and screwing up my looks!!" Aww..screw it. I earned every one of them. Coming out of a SM so late, there's a LOT of changes. Why are all these young kids (46 to 50, 51 to 55) so much smarter than us? That's what's got me worried!! LOL. |
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Post by deleted on Apr 30, 2016 11:06:01 GMT -5
When people call me "hot" I feel like crying. I am ugly. I was once very good looking, but age and prolonged stress have not been kind to me. This is painful enough to accept, especially after recent divorce and losing so much, but I've also had to face losing my dream of being loved in a loving relationship. No platitudes please. I'm a realist. I can't stand anyone looking at me. I just want to hide, and I stay home a lot so no one can see me. I can't take anymore negative judgements, so I stay away from society and far away from men. A man invited me to have coffee with him, but I won't go. I know he'll be judging my appearance. After 25-years of rejection, I can't do it. I don't want to put myself in a situation where someone rejects me again. I reject myself from society. Maybe in time, I can find a cause to dedicate the remaining life I have left, at least to have some use to someone or some thing. So when I say it's over for me in sex and romance I mean it. I've made myself non sexual. It's a damn lonely life. I lived the first half of my life feeling this way. I felt completely ugly, uninteresting and feeling like a complete worthless piece of shit as a person. I was rejected by most people. I had very few friends. I feared reaching out to anyone, because I didn't want to sink lower than I already felt. Those feelings consumed me. It's a lonely, horrible and sad way to live. Eventually, I found from people that I shared some similar interests with. I didn't believe such people existed. I started feeling valued as a person. My attitude slowly began to change. I started feeling better about myself. I ended up meeting a beautiful woman. Got married. 25 years later, I ended up on a message board seeking out people who can relate to my sexless marriage. There are people who find me attractive, even hot. I still don't see it, but I have started to accept it as their own opinion. There are other aspects of my being that I can't accept a compliment on. After a friend of mine, who I respect complimented me on something I had done, I provided a litany of the stuff I could have done better and how I sucked. He looked at me and said, "a simple thank you would have sufficed. All you had to say was thanks." I asked, "why, he said that?" He said, "I liked what you did. I really liked it. It's too bad that you didn't have that same perception." That sort of stuck with me. I am my own worst enemy. After a while, thanks to a kind therapist, I didn't want to despise myself. It took me lots of time and self-introspection. I hope you reach that place. You seem like a nice person. I hope you can find some peace. |
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The truth is, I do nothing to attract male attention. I am just my natural self with everyone I come across...male and female alike. When I'm depressed and need quiet time, I tend to keep to myself to rest my mind. When I feel good, I engage anyone in conversation. 
I see your point. My point is that your frame of reference is a "dating game" that you believe no longer works to your advantage - but there is more than one philosophy to dating, so adopt one that does work to your advantage.
