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Post by Chatter Fox on Aug 23, 2016 12:07:58 GMT -5
So, just curious. For those of you that told your partner that you wouldn't tolerate a SM anymore, did you give expectations and consequences? Did you tell them "here is the line in the sand, if you cross it, I'm done".
I did this. I told her that I expected at least once a month that was mutually desired. I told her that that was my absolute bottom line. I told her that once a week would be ideal though. So I asked her to try to help us be between those two limits in order for me to go the distance.
I wonder, have you done this? If so, where did you draw your line in the sand? Has the line been crossed? If you haven't drawn this line, where would you draw it?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2016 13:16:52 GMT -5
I won't put requirements or check boxes on the marriage, that just opens the door to duty-sex....which sucks.... cause then they check the boxes...I still work on the feel of the relationship.
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Post by bballgirl on Aug 23, 2016 13:37:43 GMT -5
I was not able to bring myself to verbally announce to him if we don't have sex once a month then (fill in the blank).
For me that was too degrading. I did however once or twice a year ask him if we could have sex and he usually ignored my request. In order to get him to have sex with me I had to be a total bitch full of anger and resentment and very detached and withdrawn. Then he'd have sex, tell me he's sorry we don't do it more frequently but we will. I was totally reset and that was a pattern for ten years until I found EP. At that point a fog lifted, I never wanted sex again with him. I don't want sex with someone that doesn't want and desire me and he never really did sexually. The marriage was doomed once I found EP.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2016 14:27:16 GMT -5
I didn't have a line in the sand - it was more like the straw that broke the camel's back. That occurred when we were Talking About It (TM) and I reminded him that he had agreed to "try" [improving the relationship and having sex.] To which he replied that he was trying as much as he was going to, and that he had higher priorities right now.
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Post by pfviento on Aug 23, 2016 14:34:47 GMT -5
To be honest a set number of times for sex is demoralizing. I didn't want duty sex and or qouta sex. I don't even want reset sex. Does not make you feel wanted.
At that point your partner will just meet the minimum requirement and you probably will get annoyed with that.
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Post by timeforliving2 on Aug 23, 2016 14:39:58 GMT -5
[Re: trying more to have sex] *** To which he replied that he was trying as much as he was going to, and that he had higher priorities right now. *** Crap, that speaks volumes. Message received loud and clear. Anyone would be "done" at that point. |
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Post by pfviento on Aug 23, 2016 14:43:17 GMT -5
I didn't have a line in the sand - it was more like the straw that broke the camel's back. That occurred when we were Talking About It (TM) and I reminded him that he had agreed to "try" [improving the relationship and having sex.] To which he replied that he was trying as much as he was going to, and that he had higher priorities right now. I give him credit for being honest and not pretending to try to change. |
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Post by timeforliving2 on Aug 23, 2016 15:10:18 GMT -5
So, just curious. For those of you that told your partner that you wouldn't tolerate a SM anymore, did you give expectations and consequences? Did you tell them "here is the line in the sand, if you cross it, I'm done". I did this. I told her that I expected at least once a month that was mutually desired. I told her that that was my absolute bottom line. I told her that once a week would be ideal though. So I asked her to try to help us be between those two limits in order for me to go the distance. I wonder, have you done this? If so, where did you draw your line in the sand? Has the line been crossed? If you haven't drawn this line, where would you draw it? Beeman, I am one of the rare people that have turned my SM around to a decent degree. I am not in a perfect marriage though by any means and we are still working on things. But at least we have sex about once a week, almost always on weekend mornings. We have been regular and consistent with sex since January 2014. When I was close to leaving in 2013 and we finally both went to counseling in late 2013, I told the counselor and her what I wanted: sex 1-2 times a week. Consider that prior to that we had sex twice in the whole calendar year 2013, and prior to that we had a stretch where we had sex once in a 4 -year period. Our marriage was at stake and she knew I was serious about leaving if we couldn't work it out. So that was the "consequence" if she didn't meet my expectations. I asked for 1-2 times a week at that time because I felt that if I only asked for 2x/month and then things tapered off after a while, then we might only be having sex once a month... which would also drive me crazy... that's borderline SM. I was in the driver's seat and had control because I was willing to walk. She didn't want to lose me. Granted, I asked for sex 1-2 times a week and we've been tracking around 1 time a week... on the lower side of what I originally asked for. But again, I'm not perfect either and if we're having sex 2x/week she's going to be wanting more from me as well to feel more loved (e.g. if you know the 5 Love Languages book / concepts, we have different love languages so it's not my natural tendency to do certain things for her... I have to be conscious about it and work at it). The bottom line is that I am probably average satisfied with my relationship at this point but hoping we can still do a lot better with it. What makes it tough is that we have a decent amount of dysfunction in the entire family (us as a couple, teenage kids with their own issues, more extended family members, etc.).. a lot of it I pin the blame on a SM existing for the first 20 years of marriage. It was a hellishly long time to be in a SM and a ton of resentment built up over time. In contrast, if we had a loving sex filled marriage from year 1, I think a lot of the crap we're dealing with now wouldn't exist. Anyway, back to your question, that's how I drew my line... at 1-2 times a week. If you're willing to walk and your spouse knows it / believes it / treats it as a real threat, you should have the control to get what you want / need. I would recommend being a bit more aggressive in asking for what you need. Ask yourself: If it tapers off from the level you're asking for, what would you do and would you still be happy? If you ask your spouse to "try"... that gives your spouse a whole lot of wiggle room to get out of it. She MUST make the time for physical intimacy on a more regular basis, otherwise she must understand that your marriage WILL fail and you will separate / divorce. She has to start to see sex as a NEED, not a want. This only happened in our relationship when my spouse and I went to counseling together. My W / refuser tried to wiggle out of it by essentially saying she always feels exhausted and there is no time for sex when dealing with work and the kids, etc. But the counselor didn't let her out of it. He told her: "There are 168 hours in a week... Certainly there must be *some* time in there where you can have sex. Generally speaking, what time of day and what time of week do you feel the least exhausted?" After a minute of silence she finally responded that weekend mornings she felt the least amount of stress. So that's what worked for us and why we're on a weekly weekend morning routine. Hope this helps! TL2 |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2016 16:34:25 GMT -5
So, just curious. For those of you that told your partner that you wouldn't tolerate a SM anymore, did you give expectations and consequences? Did you tell them "here is the line in the sand, if you cross it, I'm done". I did this. I told her that I expected at least once a month that was mutually desired. I told her that that was my absolute bottom line. I told her that once a week would be ideal though. So I asked her to try to help us be between those two limits in order for me to go the distance. I wonder, have you done this? If so, where did you draw your line in the sand? Has the line been crossed? If you haven't drawn this line, where would you draw it? The important thing is you leave if your conditions are not met. If you say you're leaving and don't, forget having any cred when it comes to negotiations and legal posturing. They'll not take a word you say seriously. You didn't just say monthly sex, you said mutually desired. She might give you duty sex but it's impossible to make someone like sex. So it's doubtful your conditions were/will be met. So what was the outcome? |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2016 16:40:52 GMT -5
I never drew a line either. I liked sex with her so much, and I really really didn't want to go through a divorce, that I would have settled for monthly duty sex. But I just knew she wouldn't. And I was done begging. As I've said, she never tried to reset me. She didn't do something she didn't want to do in order to manipulate me. So I do respect that.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2016 16:46:37 GMT -5
To be honest a set number of times for sex is demoralizing. I didn't want duty sex and or qouta sex. I don't even want reset sex. Does not make you feel wanted. At that point your partner will just meet the minimum requirement and you probably will get annoyed with that. What's fun is having one or two days a week where you plan to get it on. May not be the bomb for those who love spontaneity, but it's very exciting to know you're going to get laid on Saturday. It's like a date in your bed. Friday night I start getting the cravings and it's really exciting. Just don't banish sex from any other day LOL That would be like duty sex, we have to do it today because we can't do it on Thursdays. |
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Post by bballgirl on Aug 23, 2016 17:22:43 GMT -5
To be honest a set number of times for sex is demoralizing. I didn't want duty sex and or qouta sex. I don't even want reset sex. Does not make you feel wanted. At that point your partner will just meet the minimum requirement and you probably will get annoyed with that. What's fun is having one or two days a week where you plan to get it on. May not be the bomb for those who love spontaneity, but it's very exciting to know you're going to get laid on Saturday. It's like a date in your bed. Friday night I start getting the cravings and it's really exciting. Just don't banish sexy from any other day LOL That would be like duty sex, we have to do it today because we can't do it on Thursdays. I agree - I love the anticipation! |
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Post by baza on Aug 23, 2016 18:29:14 GMT -5
Brother beeman.
In the context of your other stories and this one, it reads like you drew a line in the sand, she crossed it, and nothing happened.
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There is nothing unusual about this, many people have tried the line in the sand without a solid and do-able plan to back it up, and the results are inevitably very similar to yours. Your bluff (and that's all it is if you haven't got a do-able exit strategy in your pocket) gets called and you shred your cred.
And, you educate your spouse that you do not mean what you say, thus making any further attempts to resolve the matter that much more difficult.
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The 'line in the sand' is very much a two edged sword.
If you are fully prepared (legal advice etc etc) and determined to carry it out, it will work - one way or the other (usually 'the other').
If you are not fully prepared (legal advice etc etc) and determined to carry it out, it will not work. In fact, it will put you backwards into a weaker position.
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This is deadly serious shit we are dealing with in our common situations.
There is no room for bluffing or brinkmanship.
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Anyway, yes, I tried this out in 2007 (without a solid do-able exit strategy in my pocket) and my result was pretty much the same as yours and other people in here that I've seen.
In 2009 I tried it again (this time with the appropriate exit strategy in my pocket) and that worked.
In my case it worked by collapsing the marriage (that is the case in most instances).
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I can only recall a handful of cases where the ILIASM shithole problem was resolved by the spouse 'coming to the party'. Brother timeforLiving2 being the shining light in this regard. And he will tell you himself that he had to genuinely put the marriage on the line to achieve this end. He wasn't bluffing.
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There's no getting around this.
The marriage has to be put on the line if you are going to resolve the matter.
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Post by obobfla on Aug 23, 2016 19:44:35 GMT -5
To be honest a set number of times for sex is demoralizing. I didn't want duty sex and or qouta sex. I don't even want reset sex. Does not make you feel wanted. At that point your partner will just meet the minimum requirement and you probably will get annoyed with that. Big time amen! I want to be wanted and occasionally seduced. Right now, if she wanted to, I would question her motives. |
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Post by GeekGoddess on Aug 23, 2016 20:01:55 GMT -5
You can't make a person desire you. How will you know? I would rather not be wondering if the desire I think I see is a fake act. I never drew a line in the sand. What I did find in my journals was that "every few years" I would share my disappointment with the status of our sex life. We would have a "serious heart to heart" (well - my half of the conversation was). We had one conversation where he asked - but how much is enough? I said weekly - and some weekends both nights. That would be enough. I asked what is the bare minimum that you think you need to have sex. He said once a month would be more than enough. At that point, I was still in love with him (say - 7 years ago? Maybe 9 yrs back) I settled for compromise saying that most weekends we ought to have sex at least once and I understand if one or two weekends got missed due to parties, other commmitments, being tired from chores, whatever. But I think that turned into once a month and even that did not last but a few years really.
Prior to my 3-year complete drought, I think we had sex about 2 or 4 times per year the two years before that. There just comes a point where I don't want someone who can't or doesn't want me. Now I know (Thanks, Mettamomma!) that in order to preserve what little bit of self-esteem I have regrown - I will not cajole, convince or connive for a sexual encounter. I can't do that and live with myself. I'd rather be alone and await a more well-suited partner (i.e., one who likes sex and wants to have it with ME). This statement assumes I have gotten to the know the person intimately enough that they understand what/how/who ME is (all of me). I'm working on the patience factor still. But I am convinced it's worth all that.
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