miestas
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Post by miestas on Apr 7, 2016 14:17:22 GMT -5
I talked to the lawyer today. It appears that my divorce would be very complicated and prohibitively expensive at the present time. About the worst news I could get. Of course, I am going to get several opinions about that. I just started with one of the best rated divorce attorneys where I live. He at least extended his "free consult" phase into another meeting tomorrow. I'll ask him about legal separation in my state. Maybe that's the way to go for now. I guess I'll find out tomorrow. If not that, then it will just have to be that we stay married, but live our own lives until all the kids reach the age of majority, and we could afford to divorce. I have visions of the Michael Douglas film "War of the Roses", except with lots less money.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2016 15:56:52 GMT -5
If you don't mind me asking, what makes your situation more expensive than the general case? Do you want to take her to the cleaners? Do you have hopes of getting sole custody of minor children?
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Post by tamara68 on Apr 8, 2016 10:07:18 GMT -5
For me I would think that it is too bad if it is expensive, but as long as it is possible to get out and have enough to live from, it is worth it.
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miestas
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Post by miestas on Apr 9, 2016 8:41:36 GMT -5
If you don't mind me asking, what makes your situation more expensive than the general case? Do you want to take her to the cleaners? Do you have hopes of getting sole custody of minor children? No, I don't want to hurt her at all. An even split would be just fine with me. No, it would be bad for my kids for one of us to have sole custody. We both have very good relations with all of our children, and they would miss both of us terribly. I have a lot of kids, and they have always been each other's best friends, so splitting them up would also be a bad idea, in my opinion. I have no clue what to do about them, except that I want them to be as happy as possible. If that means they live with mom full time and I only visit, or the other way around, it doesn't matter to me, as long as they are happy. Well, it does matter to me, because I want them with me, but it is not about what I want when it comes to my kids. I didn't mean to imply that my divorce would be any more expensive than anyone else's, just that I can't afford to do it. We own businesses that are worth a lot on paper. We own lots of property that is worth a lot on paper. However, it is only true on paper. The reality is that our cash flow is very poor. We have huge amounts of debt, thanks to my wife. Our net incomes together just barely make our lives possible, and keep our children in schools where they aren't assaulted and/or shot. A long, complicated, drawn out divorce would certainly tip that delicate equilibrium into the toilet. The lawyer has told me that my best bet is to just stay married and find ways to be happy by living a life without my wife until the kids are gone. Things get much simpler and easier at that point because we can just sell everything and split it evenly. The kids all have their own college funds already, so the income problems would only affect my wife and I at that point. Wonderful advice, right? Like a jail sentence. Eight more years. No time off for good behavior. Oh, and in my state at least, if I live outside the home, and she decides to divorce me instead of the other way around, she gets sole custody and has the greater say-so about visitation rights. And if I decided to "outsource", and she could prove it, I would lose pretty much any hope of having visitation rights except maybe every other weekend, if I was lucky and had a sympathetic judge. And I would lose the vast majority of any assets in the marriage, but would still be responsible for half of the massive debt she has accrued. So, like I said. Worst. Day. Ever. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2016 8:52:35 GMT -5
Ok, that is truly awful news - I am so sorry! Is there anything you can start doing to change the debt situation? I know it can't be fixed quickly, but maybe talk your wife into a visit with an accountant or financial advisor so you can have someone else freak out and insist she stop spending? I guess focussing on the debt comes to my mind first because it's something you might be able to work on right now to take your mind off your "jail sentence." I really am sorry about this news. I wish I had some magical advice that would change your lawyer's advice. Did he say anything more helpful at the second meeting?
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miestas
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Post by miestas on Apr 9, 2016 14:11:51 GMT -5
Ok, that is truly awful news - I am so sorry! Is there anything you can start doing to change the debt situation? I know it can't be fixed quickly, but maybe talk your wife into a visit with an accountant or financial advisor so you can have someone else freak out and insist she stop spending? I guess focussing on the debt comes to my mind first because it's something you might be able to work on right now to take your mind off your "jail sentence." I really am sorry about this news. I wish I had some magical advice that would change your lawyer's advice. Did he say anything more helpful at the second meeting? Thank you. I've already started on the debt stuff. I've cut off all the credit cards except for the businesses. Ditto for equity loans (second mortgages). I have a good bit of property on the market. No takers yet because my area is severely economically depressed. I am talking to bankruptcy lawyers about getting the credit card debt reduced. But even if all that goes well, it will take years, probably longer than our kids will remain at home. That's what I meant about no time off for good behavior. And the second meeting went well, in that we somewhat "bonded". He spent a lot of time with me, and I think he felt a little sorry for me, because he said I could call him anytime and ask for legal advice free of charge. I liked him, so that helps. However, his news about legal separation in my state was not good either. He said that legal separation is the same thing as divorce here, except with none of the benefits. You still aren't free to do as you want, the rule about "whoever lives with the kids gets custody" still applies. The only reason it exists here is for insurance purposes, because the spouse will be able to get health insurance, even if there are preexisting health issues, once the divorce is final. Now that Obamacare is here, it really serves no purpose at all, and is just a "remnant law". |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2016 16:55:55 GMT -5
If you don't mind me asking, what makes your situation more expensive than the general case? Do you want to take her to the cleaners? Do you have hopes of getting sole custody of minor children? No, I don't want to hurt her at all. An even split would be just fine with me. No, it would be bad for my kids for one of us to have sole custody. We both have very good relations with all of our children, and they would miss both of us terribly. I have a lot of kids, and they have always been each other's best friends, so splitting them up would also be a bad idea, in my opinion. I have no clue what to do about them, except that I want them to be as happy as possible. If that means they live with mom full time and I only visit, or the other way around, it doesn't matter to me, as long as they are happy. Well, it does matter to me, because I want them with me, but it is not about what I want when it comes to my kids. I didn't mean to imply that my divorce would be any more expensive than anyone else's, just that I can't afford to do it. We own businesses that are worth a lot on paper. We own lots of property that is worth a lot on paper. However, it is only true on paper. The reality is that our cash flow is very poor. We have huge amounts of debt, thanks to my wife. Our net incomes together just barely make our lives possible, and keep our children in schools where they aren't assaulted and/or shot. A long, complicated, drawn out divorce would certainly tip that delicate equilibrium into the toilet. The lawyer has told me that my best bet is to just stay married and find ways to be happy by living a life without my wife until the kids are gone. Things get much simpler and easier at that point because we can just sell everything and split it evenly. The kids all have their own college funds already, so the income problems would only affect my wife and I at that point. Wonderful advice, right? Like a jail sentence. Eight more years. No time off for good behavior. Oh, and in my state at least, if I live outside the home, and she decides to divorce me instead of the other way around, she gets sole custody and has the greater say-so about visitation rights. And if I decided to "outsource", and she could prove it, I would lose pretty much any hope of having visitation rights except maybe every other weekend, if I was lucky and had a sympathetic judge. And I would lose the vast majority of any assets in the marriage, but would still be responsible for half of the massive debt she has accrued. So, like I said. Worst. Day. Ever. I'm so sorry. Divorce is far more complicated than some would believe. Do you and your wife get along besides the no sex part? I hope so. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2016 19:53:52 GMT -5
Maybe that fucking lawyer ought to have to live your life!
It always pisses me off when they insist that you have to put up with crap.
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Post by Chatter Fox on Apr 9, 2016 23:18:47 GMT -5
If you don't mind me asking, what makes your situation more expensive than the general case? Do you want to take her to the cleaners? Do you have hopes of getting sole custody of minor children? No, I don't want to hurt her at all. An even split would be just fine with me. No, it would be bad for my kids for one of us to have sole custody. We both have very good relations with all of our children, and they would miss both of us terribly. I have a lot of kids, and they have always been each other's best friends, so splitting them up would also be a bad idea, in my opinion. I have no clue what to do about them, except that I want them to be as happy as possible. If that means they live with mom full time and I only visit, or the other way around, it doesn't matter to me, as long as they are happy. Well, it does matter to me, because I want them with me, but it is not about what I want when it comes to my kids. I didn't mean to imply that my divorce would be any more expensive than anyone else's, just that I can't afford to do it. We own businesses that are worth a lot on paper. We own lots of property that is worth a lot on paper. However, it is only true on paper. The reality is that our cash flow is very poor. We have huge amounts of debt, thanks to my wife. Our net incomes together just barely make our lives possible, and keep our children in schools where they aren't assaulted and/or shot. A long, complicated, drawn out divorce would certainly tip that delicate equilibrium into the toilet. The lawyer has told me that my best bet is to just stay married and find ways to be happy by living a life without my wife until the kids are gone. Things get much simpler and easier at that point because we can just sell everything and split it evenly. The kids all have their own college funds already, so the income problems would only affect my wife and I at that point. Wonderful advice, right? Like a jail sentence. Eight more years. No time off for good behavior. Oh, and in my state at least, if I live outside the home, and she decides to divorce me instead of the other way around, she gets sole custody and has the greater say-so about visitation rights. And if I decided to "outsource", and she could prove it, I would lose pretty much any hope of having visitation rights except maybe every other weekend, if I was lucky and had a sympathetic judge. And I would lose the vast majority of any assets in the marriage, but would still be responsible for half of the massive debt she has accrued. So, like I said. Worst. Day. Ever. That sucks. So sorry to hear all that. The financial aspects aside, I have read that kids don't necessarily do best with shared custody. Its not that shared custody is a bad thing, it's just that it may be not as critical as one may believe. It may be good for the kids to live primarily with their mother and have a stable home base and have a very involved father that lives elsewhere. It may be worth reading into. It just seems to me that 50/50 split is the assumed "best case scenario" for the kids these days in society. From what I've read, it's not necessarily true. If I take the plunge, I plan to simply give my wife the house and custody for the kids sake. That way, their routine is not shaken too bad. I will live in an apartment down the street and be the best dad I can be and see them as often as I possibly can. Its not ideal, but what is ideal in a divorce anyway? It may be rough for me to not see them as much, but it may be better for them to have very little shake up in their life. Plus, if you are not feeling pressure to provide 2 full blown family households with 50/50 custody, maybe that'll help with the financial side of things? Like, for example, you just get an apartment that can serve well as a place for you and a place your kids can have occasional overnight visits and the marital home stays the "home base" for your kids so to speak? |
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miestas
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Age Range: 61-65
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Post by miestas on Apr 9, 2016 23:56:23 GMT -5
I'm so sorry. Divorce is far more complicated than some would believe. Do you and your wife get along besides the no sex part? I hope so. Really, I guess we get along well enough, but it is sufficiently miserable. She has been diagnosed with borderline personality disorder. I'm not a big believer in labels, other than as shorthand for different behaviors that usually appear in groups in people. That particular label describes a bunch of behaviors that are very difficult to live with. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2016 8:56:28 GMT -5
Borderline is not a label, it is a diagnosis. Borderline people can be hell to live with!!!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2016 12:04:36 GMT -5
I'm so sorry. Divorce is far more complicated than some would believe. Do you and your wife get along besides the no sex part? I hope so. Really, I guess we get along well enough, but it is sufficiently miserable. She has been diagnosed with borderline personality disorder. I'm not a big believer in labels, other than as shorthand for different behaviors that usually appear in groups in people. That particular label describes a bunch of behaviors that are very difficult to live with. Yes, it is hard to live with. I'm sorry. Misery is misery regardless of the source. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2016 18:10:29 GMT -5
Most "I can't get a divorce" stories are euphemisms for feeling overwhelmed. But are these insurmountable obstacles? I would indeed get a second opinion. For example, if you move out and she files, she gets the kids. Ok, so you file first. Etc. You are right to try to find some solutions here.
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Post by baza on Jun 1, 2016 4:13:28 GMT -5
Great that you have gathered all that relevant legal advice Brother Miestas.
You've got a framework there you can work within.
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Whereas pre legal advice you appeared to think there is no way out, now you know that there IS a way out, albeit on a very challenging time line.
That puts you well ahead of where you were.
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Post by Pinkberry on Jun 1, 2016 6:57:34 GMT -5
Well, here's the thing. The ability to leave now may be limited. I get that because I was there, also for financial reasons and ultimately, my divorce crushed me financially. It is six years later and I am just crawling out. BUT, you can change your financial picture while inside. You can take big risks and your wife will have no real say so. What is the worst that happens? She gets pissed and files for divorce?
A lot of people aren't into it and I certainly do not know your financial status, but often there are things that can be moved forward if we are willing to be uncomfortable for a while. You are already uncomfortable, so why not have the discomfort have a purpose? So, with that in mind, may I suggest reading the Total Money Makeover by Dave Ramsey? I didn't follow it to the letter myself, but the basic principles were very helpful. For example, trading in a car and buying something reliable, but cheap without the bells and whistles that you might be used to having can save on a car payment. With the money you would normally have used for the car payment, you can pay down something else more quickly. Cutting back on the food bill is one place to save a lot of money, more than people suspect. These are just examples, but I would make sure that I was moving towards something even if it was difficult and seems impossibly slow at first. Also, you may want to check out a blog called The Penny Hoarder. They have a ton of legitimate ways to earn a few extra bucks each month. These things can make a dent and start moving you in the right direction. If they aren't your bag, consider picking up a second part time job or extra hours at your current job or something similar to earn a few extra bucks. Use any additional money on the debt no matter what.
I realize that it is completely unfair to put this burden solely on you, but you clearly can't rely on your spouse. In the long run, the long run will be shorter if you can do something about the debt now. It can be overcome. Sell a business, sell extra crap around the house, take a loss and a tax break on some property, anything will do as a first step. Sometimes a consult with a financial planner is worth the expenditure to get a solid plan in place. If nothing else, all of this will take up time where you normally lament your SM situation. It will give you a positive focus with clear goals.
Best of luck!
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