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Post by DryCreek on Aug 22, 2016 10:46:30 GMT -5
@elle, your dude's crazy. As evidenced by the fact that he let things get where they are. And then thinks he can just keep it with a tight grip. I'm with unmatched: his behavior won't last. You see that coming, so it's no surprise. Just more drama waiting to unfold at an inconvenient time. Which will be just about anytime, if you're heads-down in a training program. Hopefully that speedbump won't have repercussions on your studies. Kudos on having a vision and a plan, but executing the next 24 months is gonna be tough. Repeating advice I gave another recently... any chance of negotiating binding separation terms now, while he's in a good mood and you have something he wants (more time)? Or even filing now and using your 2-year period as the mandatory separation period (presuming your jurisdiction requires one)? If I could offer a caution, I *really* don't see a controlling personality being amicable or reasonable at the end of the road - I see him being spiteful and obstructionist, and maybe using the next 24 months to shield himself financially by hiding or manipulating money. With that much runway and his personality, it's virtually certain that money will be hidden. Certainly getting account info now will help, but he could still play games. ("I lost it gambling / drinking / traveling.") |
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endthegame
Junior Member
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Age Range: 46-50
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Post by endthegame on Aug 22, 2016 11:46:20 GMT -5
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Post by greatcoastal on Aug 22, 2016 12:28:29 GMT -5
Elle, here's a quote from the book Boundaries in Marriage " Controllers are limited in there ability to take responsibility for owning there lives. Having relied on bullying or inderectness, they can't function on there own in the world. THE ONLY REMEDY IS TO LET CONTROLLERS EXPERIENCE THE CONSEQUENCES OF THEIR IRRESPONSIBILITY."
" Controllers are isolated. People stay with them out of fear, guilt,or dependency.If there honest, controllers rarely feel loved. Why? Because in there heart of hearts,they know that the only reason people spend time with them is because they are pulling the strings. If they stopped threatening or manipulating, they would be abandoned. And, at some deep level, they are unaware of there isolation. There is no fear in love.But perfect love drives out fear. We can't terrorize or make others feel guilty and be loved by them at the same time."
"Termed * non-responsive
* because of there lack of attention to the responsibilities of love! they do the opposite of " do not withhold good from whom it is due, when it is in your power to do it."
Find out from an attorney a time frame for a divorce. Find out how a divorce would affect this 24 month training. Ask questions about needing time off for attorneys, trials, and moving. Find out if your pay would increase and how that would affect your alimony.
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Post by greatcoastal on Aug 22, 2016 13:17:30 GMT -5
Elle, yes , you might meet someone! I hope you meet lots of people, male and female, you need friendship right now. Your goal is to slowly build a new support system for your new life!
Give yourself time for emotional drainage.
Letting go of old things means replacing them with new things.
1)Don't keep living in the role of the old identity.
2) create " new experiences in living" for yourself.
3) Don't let other people superimpose an identity upon you.
4)learn all you can about your new identity and how to live it.
5)realize that you are a unique unrepeatable miracle of God!
6) Know that you have freedom to fail.
Decide for yourself right now that you will take all the time you need to let go of old things and build new things- that you will not become impatient but will understand that this is a new and growing experience for you.
Remember two to three years is a good measuring stick.
Quoted from the book, "Growing Through Divorce" by Jim Smoke.
This book was given to me in a " Divorce Recovery " program. I would highly recommend finding one in your area. I will mail you a copy if you like?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2016 14:04:38 GMT -5
@elle, this is fantastic news! Awesome!
Others have given you good advice about what to do if (when) he makes trouble for you.
There will be hurdles ahead, but IMHO, you have gotten past the worst part.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2016 21:50:10 GMT -5
Does your state have a separation period before you can file for divorce? After two years of head games I hope you'll be able to file.
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Post by Chatter Fox on Aug 23, 2016 14:54:22 GMT -5
Hi everyone. I'm sorry for being mostly AWOL for 3 weeks. There's been progress in my situation, but it's been a scary ride. Add in plenty of drama from my refusing husband and one health scare (mine) still not completely resolved. Please bear with me through this update. I'm finally breathing again. My last thread, iliasm.org/thread/933/attorney-appt-normal-happy, is pretty much where I left off. I saw that second attorney later that week and got my head on straight to have the "I DEFINITELY want a divorce" talk. Went home that night, let my refuser get settled in and after dinner, I dropped it all on him. As sweetly and gently as I could. I had (and have) no plans for daggers. (Hoping to mediate with him and expecting to be his friend at the end of it all - really.) Guess what!? He said NO. That's right, good friends of ILIASM, my refuser REFUSED me a divorce. Outright. He said he would not leave. Said I could not leave. Said we had kids to raise. Said we could not afford it. Basically said, "absolutely NOT." (Can anyone say CONTROLLING behavior? You can't refuse someone a divorce. Papers can be served!) It's laughable to me now, but at the time I was absolutely gobsmacked, as in - I think my jaw dropped to the floor and I know I went totally silent. It took me fully 5 days (and a therapy appointment and several long talks with assertive friends) to recover and realize that I don't need his permission. Back to the drawing board I went. In the meantime, and right after the divorce talk, I had a health scare. Kind of a major one involving a slew of procedures and tests to rule out something serious. It was all enough to remind me that my body can't handle the stress of this oppressive marriage any longer. (It's not the first scare I've had. There's one test left. I think I'm OK, but prayers appreciated.) Believe it or not, my health scare served as a wake up call for H too. Once the call from the routine exam came in and we knew what we were dealing with (and I won't discuss it for privacy's sake), my refuser got scared and suddenly contrite, even guilt-ridden. He agreed (through my tears - too many to count over several days) to "let" me go in 2 years time (see next paragraph). In that time though, he's said he will try to "win me back." Problem is, he doesn't get to get me back. Not this time. I've grown too strong to fall back into his arms.* I really have. My friends will tell you that, definitively. It may not look like it to any of you, but this is progress. It really is. I'm breaking this thing - breaking his hold on me! The 2 year time frame stands in front of us because I've just entered a 24-month training which will enable me to further my career (after being home for years). H says we should stay together during that time and then, once I finish and am working, I'm free to go if I "still want to." I recognize the remaining codependency in all of this. I do. I have a therapist and a slew of friends to support me through this. But I think I'll be OK. I am DONE!!! And I tell H that nearly every day. He keeps hugging and kissing me. I let him. He's still my husband. But I also keep sweetly saying "I'm done. We're done. It's too late now." He's seen a therapist - once. He won't discuss it and his next appointment is weeks out. (Not very committed, I'd say.) He told me not to walk on eggshells any more (because that's up to me??) and has quit drinking so that I "don't get stressed." He takes no ownership of this problem. He's white-knuckling all of it. He's 3 weeks into NICE mode. His personal record is about 6 weeks of niceness. I expect his switch to flip soon - back to narcissist. I'll cross that bridge when we get to it. I've told him if he can't handle living here and being decent, I'll ask him to leave. AND I WILL!!! Mark my words. This sweet gal has had ENOUGH. NO MORE! Time to throw that man off the other end of the mesa (reference from an old post of mine). I've even told him I might meet someone in my training. Where did I get the guts to say that?? He just stares at me when I assert myself. He's in shock. I'd be willing to bet he still doesn't believe I'll leave. But, I've already left emotionally. I'm a free agent. This train has left the station. He'll never catch me now and I WILL keep reminding him. I'm DONE. We sleep separately; I don't wear my ring; we are married only on paper and in name now, and for only 2 more years or maybe even LESS, depending on how he behaves. I just want to sincerely thank ALL of you for your support, your help, your stories, your friendship, your hugs, all of it. Really, I wouldn't have gotten to this point without having been here for the past few months. I was close, but needed the support of this community to get to where I am now. I'm DONE (have I mentioned that yet?). It feels AMAZING. I can breathe. I'm no longer afraid. I can see happiness. I have HOPE. I see a future for myself. Even if it's alone, it's better than what I have now. By a long shot. The next 2 years will be interesting. I'll check in when I can, infrequently. I'm going to be very, very busy. But I'm finally at peace with what is. The decision is made. And it's the RIGHT one. The BEST one. Please feel free to PM me if you want to chat, really - do that. I'm here for my friends of the ILIASM forum. I'll share and support as much as I can. But, I don't expect to be on the forums much. (My free time is down to nothing.) I'll check in when I can. And I will answer my PMs. Be strong. Know your own worth. Don't let yourself get sick from the stress. Breathe and know when to move on. Really, it's OK to move on. You'll know when it's time. I did! *Thank you Christina Perri, for the awesome and empowering lyrics from Jar of Hearts. This is MY song as I walk through this fire. Wow! So proud of you!!!! You're an inspiration to us all!!! We are here for you when you need us!!! |
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Post by greatcoastal on Aug 23, 2016 15:05:08 GMT -5
The shrink 4men. Is really strong, powerful, direct, helpful information. I plan on making some copies of it, highlighting it and quoting it in future advice for myself and others here on ILIASM. |
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Post by snowman12345 on Aug 25, 2016 6:17:51 GMT -5
@elle, good for you! I can't add much to the conversation, but think on this: if nothing will change in how you feel and he is incapable of real change - what difference will 2 years make? Has he convinced you that you can't divorce right now and that YOU will be happier having waited 2 years? Or will HE be happier in two years? Who really benefits here?
Just my two cents. Good luck and peace to you!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2016 8:59:43 GMT -5
I only have two words for you, @elle. ROCK. STAR.
Your post demonstrated how strong and confident you've become. I love how clearly you've asserted yourself. The two years will fly by and give you time to end it, with appropriate closure for yourself and the children.
You're awesome!!
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Post by petrushka on Aug 25, 2016 8:59:50 GMT -5
Hi, and congrats for getting this far.  I am not in the least surprised by his initial reaction. We've talked about this before: he's an alky, and his main interest in life, apart from alcohol, is to keep his enabler around to take care of shit. You had better believe that he will try every sane and every insane thing that enters his mind, over the next two years, to try to somehow tie you down and hang on to you. He has, for the interim, achieved exactly what he wanted. That will be the most important thing on his agenda for the moment. Go hang the long term outlook, go hang how you feel about it, go hang how he feels about it, for the next two years he has secured his enabler, in his mind, and that's what he needed right now. Yes, I sound cynical --- but don't forget: I know addicts. The one thing that might help him (and help you, even if you're done) is for him to get dried out, get therapy and attend alcoholics anonymous religiously. That appears to be the very thing that's not happening. (yes, I read that he's currently not drinking - but is he really dried out? he's stopped for periods before, i.i.r.c.) I look upon that 2 year period with great wariness. I expect there will be drama. The stress will go back on, as soon as he comes to the realization that you're not going to cave just yet. Make sure you stay safe, particularly if he brings a bottle of liquor back to the house. All those inhibitions he's currently applying to his behaviour will fly out of the window really quickly, with a high degree of likelyhood. Meanwhile: all the best, Elle! And good luck. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2016 20:43:04 GMT -5
Hi, and congrats for getting this far. I am not in the least surprised by his initial reaction. We've talked about this before: he's an alky, and his main interest in life, apart from alcohol, is to keep his enabler around to take care of shit. You had better believe that he will try every sane and every insane thing that enters his mind, over the next two years, to try to somehow tie you down and hang on to you. He has, for the interim, achieved exactly what he wanted. That will be the most important thing on his agenda for the moment. Go hang the long term outlook, go hang how you feel about it, go hang how he feels about it, for the next two years he has secured his enabler, in his mind, and that's what he needed right now. Yes, I sound cynical --- but don't forget: I know addicts. The one thing that might help him (and help you, even if you're done) is for him to get dried out, get therapy and attend alcoholics anonymous religiously. That appears to be the very thing that's not happening. (yes, I read that he's currently not drinking - but is he really dried out? he's stopped for @petrushkaperiods before, i.i.r.c.) I look upon that 2 year period with great wariness. I expect there will be drama. The stress will go back on, as soon as he comes to the realization that you're not going to cave just yet. Make sure you stay safe, particularly if he brings a bottle of liquor back to the house. All those inhibitions he's currently applying to his behaviour will fly out of the window really quickly, with a high degree of likelyhood. Meanwhile: all the best, Elle! And good luck. I'll need that luck, won't I, petrushka? Yes, he's dry-drunking it. He's quit but without acknowledging ever having a problem. We all know what that means. No alcohol but all the behaviors of an alcoholic lurking beneath the surface just waiting to leak out or, rather, explode out. He's being SUPER NICE right now. I'm enjoying it. If only foolishly and temporarily so. I don't know what to say. I really don't. I appreciate the insight. You have not told me anything I don't know. None of you have told me anything I don't know (thank you DryCreek, unmatched also). But, since I won't serve papers until he does something hideous (rages, blacks out, or otherwise loses his shit) and since I won't leave our home and since I'm waiting for permission (which he promises to grant in 2 years), then I'm stuck. Aren't I? You've all given great advice, but I am not ready to execute an aggressive plan. I am far too busy and preoccupied with my own life right now.There's peace in my home for now. When that peace is broken, rest assured, I will deal with it. But this time, I am HELLA STRONG. Don't mess with the bitch with pink hair!!! I'm serious folks. He can just TRY ME!!!
TRY ME, Mr. Elle. BRING. IT. ON.
When the time is right, the stuff is going down. I'll let y'all know!! Stay tuned. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2016 21:20:32 GMT -5
Hi, and congrats for getting this far. I am not in the least surprised by his initial reaction. We've talked about this before: he's an alky, and his main interest in life, apart from alcohol, is to keep his enabler around to take care of shit. You had better believe that he will try every sane and every insane thing that enters his mind, over the next two years, to try to somehow tie you down and hang on to you. He has, for the interim, achieved exactly what he wanted. That will be the most important thing on his agenda for the moment. Go hang the long term outlook, go hang how you feel about it, go hang how he feels about it, for the next two years he has secured his enabler, in his mind, and that's what he needed right now. Yes, I sound cynical --- but don't forget: I know addicts. The one thing that might help him (and help you, even if you're done) is for him to get dried out, get therapy and attend alcoholics anonymous religiously. That appears to be the very thing that's not happening. (yes, I read that he's currently not drinking - but is he really dried out? he's stopped for @petrushkaperiods before, i.i.r.c.) I look upon that 2 year period with great wariness. I expect there will be drama. The stress will go back on, as soon as he comes to the realization that you're not going to cave just yet. Make sure you stay safe, particularly if he brings a bottle of liquor back to the house. All those inhibitions he's currently applying to his behaviour will fly out of the window really quickly, with a high degree of likelyhood. Meanwhile: all the best, Elle! And good luck. I'll need that luck, won't I, petrushka? Yes, he's dry-drunking it. He's quit but without acknowledging ever having a problem. We all know what that means. No alcohol but all the behaviors of an alcoholic lurking beneath the surface just waiting to leak out or, rather, explode out. He's being SUPER NICE right now. I'm enjoying it. If only foolishly and temporarily so. I don't know what to say. I really don't. I appreciate the insight. You have not told me anything I don't know. None of you have told me anything I don't know (thank you DryCreek, unmatched also). But, since I won't serve papers until he does something hideous (rages, blacks out, or otherwise loses his shit) and since I won't leave our home and since I'm waiting for permission (which he promises to grant in 2 years), then I'm stuck. Aren't I? You've all given great advice, but I am not ready to execute an aggressive plan. I am far too busy and preoccupied with my own life right now.There's peace in my home for now. When that peace is broken, rest assured, I will deal with it. But this time, I am HELLA STRONG. Don't mess with the bitch with pink hair!!! I'm serious folks. He can just TRY ME!!!
TRY ME, Mr. Elle. BRING. IT. ON.
When the time is right, the stuff is going down. I'll let y'all know!! Stay tuned. Please tell me you didn't use the word "permission." Bitches with pink hair don't need permission! |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2016 21:59:30 GMT -5
@phinheasgage said: "Please tell me you didn't use the word "permission."
Bitches with pink hair don't need permission!"
Point taken and well-received, @phinheasgage . Bear with me. I'll get there. I WILL!! |
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Post by baza on Aug 25, 2016 22:51:21 GMT -5
Quoting you here Sister elle - "But, since I won't serve papers until he does something hideous (rages, blacks out, or otherwise loses his shit) and since I won't leave our home and since I'm waiting for permission (which he promises to grant in 2 years), then I'm stuck. Aren't I? You've all given great advice, but I am not ready to execute an aggressive plan. I am far too busy and preoccupied with my own life right now"
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You have this spot on.
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If you need him to do something hideous, if you need his imprimatur / approval to proceed, then yep, you are stuck.
Stalled.
Bogged.
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In this scenario, he runs the agenda. Not you.
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