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Post by petrushka on Mar 27, 2016 0:05:12 GMT -5
Ha, I hear you - and as EP taught us, similarly 'women who don't love enough'. There's a few blokes here who can tell a tale or two about that. We certainly can write a book about the many kind of 'broken' or dysfunctional that both men and women can be in this respect. But this is not a juxtaposition. Norwood actually dismantles a myth. The people who "love too much", the co-dependents, are in themselves actually severely dysfunctional, people who cling to control in order to avoid repeating a traumatic past only to latch on to somebody whom they think they can 'remodel', 'fix', 'shape', and CONTROL (because people in need of help are clearly weak!) and here is the kicker: when the person at the other end of this relationship DOES get their shit together, then it usually becomes obvious that the co-dependent is not capable of maintaining a sane, grown-up, adult-adult relationship, they end up torpedoing their own life. It is my view from that perspective that the vast majority of refusers are victims carrying on in the same vein as what they are used to, rather than vicious conscious and intentional abusers and manipulators. Although those most certainly exist, I've met my share of them.
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Post by petrushka on Mar 26, 2016 23:36:00 GMT -5
I'd be tempted to write a novel-length post if I were to 'introduce myself'. So I'll say 'hi' instead.
When I married S. it was a good thing, and it turned out to be a terrible thing. She is in some ways exactly the woman I would want to have a relationship with, honest to a fault, committed, participating, willing to communicate and share, take on more than her share of the burdens, responsible, true to her friends, faithful. She is also the woman from an emotionally abusive family who got a very warped view of how relationships should work, who developed neurotic armor stronger than German steel, is terrified of strong feelings, loud voices ... not in a rabbit-having-a-heart-attack kind of terrified, she just can't deal with it and the bunker gets buttoned down. She's relaxed an incredible amount over the last 18 years. Yet, since strong feelings are terrifying, she can't let that happen, which leaves me .... stranded. Sad, wistful at times. She doesn't know the difference between having sex and making love, and whenever I have attempted the latter, she has gone into hiding. Or struggled out of my arms, or tried to laugh it off. What a loss. And none of the former for now some 13 years. The abuse is gone, stuff she brought with her from her father. EP helped me identify what was going on as a process, I was able to confirm with her friends and my friends that I was not going insane, and we got that sorted. And I have arrived at the station that I have to be responsible for my happiness, and I can't hold myself responsible for hers, because it is not my place.
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Post by petrushka on Mar 26, 2016 23:12:30 GMT -5
Neil Gaiman is simply brilliant. Once upon a time I watched the old old horror film "The Omen" on late night tv. About 2 weeks later, purely by chance, I bought the book "Good Omens" by Neil Gaiman and Terry Pratchett.
I kid you not, I was crying with laughter, and rolling around on the carpet, unable to contain myself, and pounding the floor. Even without having seen the film, it's supposedly a very funny book.
I've pretty much read everything by Gaiman, and by Pratchett, since. Such a pity they never collaborated on anything else.
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Post by petrushka on Mar 26, 2016 23:00:57 GMT -5
I'm going to write Enna30 an email and ask permission ... if we get really lucky she may give me her password so I can download them, or maybe she'll download them herself and pass them over.
I feel hesitant to just grab someone else's stories without their acquiescence.
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Post by petrushka on Mar 26, 2016 1:07:06 GMT -5
If only I could understand the words ....
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Post by petrushka on Mar 24, 2016 23:14:54 GMT -5
I am very, very cautious around self-help books. Most of them, in my opinion, are just good to help one person, and that person is the author. They also tend to just focus on one thing, one idea, and then harp on about the same thing for 365 pages ... you can't go and read one self help book and then confidently diagnose your spouse as narcissistic ... because you really need a hell of a lot of background knowledge and context to do that. It's like trying to do brain surgery after reading one booklet about the hypothalamus.
Having said that, there's one book that I think is worth reading for people who are in a relationship where one person is a carebear and the other an addict alcoholic or similar: it's called "Women who love too much" by Robin Norwood.
It has a lot to say about the co-dependent person, how they come to be, and how they sabotage their own lives. If it can make some codependents realize where they are at, psychologically, and seek help, then that's a good result. It's certainly not going to enable you to fix yourself up, nor, I think does it make any claims to that end. Incidentally, that should really be "women and men who love too much".
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Post by petrushka on Mar 24, 2016 8:21:44 GMT -5
So, how do we do this? Just copy and whack them in here, into this thread?
I have recovered my stories from EP. I also know there are stories there that I would dearly love to repost here, in particular the learned and wonderous essays of one Enna30. I am not entirely sure, but I actually got the idea that EP is going to leave the site up, so one can still access the material written up there, but I am not positive on that score.
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