okiedude
Junior Member
Learning to live with my Situation.
Posts: 87
Age Range: 46-50
|
Post by okiedude on Jun 23, 2018 8:30:34 GMT -5
I wanted to put this in a thread. I am saying this only out of observation. After reading other people's issues everyone is kind of the same. It is a typical issue. I have complete love for my wife I would say I adore her but, she has only friendship/family love for me. I think that the killer is that she finds me attractive, good locking fun, intelligent and enjoys physical touch. But actual sex is a no go. This tells me that she is attracted to the companionship, looks, persona and me being a great father to our kids. We have an amazing home and and our kids are outstanding. She says I don't show her enough affection in public. When we craw in bed she says hold me. When I attempt to touch her or cuddle or, God forbid, get an erection she pulls away. No sex. If we do have sex (maybe very other month) she usually has an orgasm so I know it works.... Sounds that one of the issues of myself, and many of the people on this list, with the attempt to correct the lack of needed intimate/romantic connection, which sex is proof of romantic connection. We build a co-dependent relationship where we are doing everything to create the situation our spouses need. We are attempting to create happiness for our spouse or to learn the combination of the sex lock. Our spouses learn to expect our hard work and self sacrifice, hell they have it great. We wait on them hand and foot. As we go crazy they get everything they need and will continue the refusal with the fear of us pulling away our efforts to fill their spoiled needs. I know you have turned the situation around in your mind and gone through the list of things you do vs what they do. The only thing you want however is that deep connection only intimacy can provide.
We we are scared because deep down we know we want/need them much more than they need us. We know if we withdraw the co-dependent constant effort to make them happy they will leave us and we will lose person we love. Lost love is one of the most painful Things in life. Co-dependence is a difficult nut to crack. Because our spouses get joy from our efforts we are fed happiness but we crave the attention back. We work so hard to do everything they want and give very little reason for them to deny us but, they do, and the we start resenting them because we will do anything for them and they will not for us. I wonder if total sexless marriage is better than sex 6-12 times per year. At least with none the understanding is there. With sparse sex we work so hard for it and go through an emotional roller coaster everytime.
Read about co-dependence.
Let it me know what you think....
|
|
|
Post by shamwow on Jun 23, 2018 15:26:25 GMT -5
I don't know whether total sexlessness is better than 6 to 12 times per year. I can. Say that multi year celibacy produces a CLARITY that is not present in reset sex.
The refusing partner reduces the frequency to that dangerous level at their own risk. Is it because they they are repulsed by their partner? Or is it because they (correctly or incorrectly) believe they have attained a level of control allowing them to remove the mortar that holds the marriage together?
I do know that when the words "I want a divorce" came out of my mouth, the first look on my ex's face was "Oh, shit... I really fucked up." Later came the crocodile tears.
Unguarded moments are interesting things...
|
|
|
Post by tirefire on Jun 23, 2018 22:25:41 GMT -5
I think zero sex is better than 6 times per year. The emotional roller coaster and feeling of rejection isn't the same when you just have zero sex. Zero is closer to the end state: divorce, rebirth and new found happiness.
|
|
|
Post by workingonit on Jun 24, 2018 0:04:31 GMT -5
As a zero sex sufferer I am not sure about that tirefire . It is absolutely clearer though.
|
|
|
Post by ironhamster on Jun 24, 2018 0:47:23 GMT -5
...We build a co-dependent relationship where we are doing everything to create the situation our spouses need. We are attempting to create happiness for our spouse or to learn the combination of the sex lock. Our spouses learn to expect our hard work and self sacrifice, hell they have it great. We wait on them hand and foot. As we go crazy they get everything they need and will continue the refusal... Eventually, if we do not die first, we figure it out. They have no intention of fulfilling our needs. The relationship seems as empty as a used bottle. No deposit, no return.
|
|
|
Post by GeekGoddess on Jun 24, 2018 7:08:58 GMT -5
I went through some years of off & on resetting first (guessing roughly married years 8 or 10 through 14 ish). The last 3 years were celibate.
The reset years kept me on the merry go round always striving for “the key” to the mystery. It really was exhausting, all the guessing. Trying to predict his moods. And how my actions or words would affect his mood. Very codependent behavior. Also: emotional abuse victim behavior.
The celibate years - I was numb & dumb the first year or two because of the medical source of the problem (prostate cancer, gland & nerves removed).
But the 100% celibacy was what made me google “sexless marriage” & find EP. When I posted my story and got so many responses if “there are other things he could do to satisfy you” - I was shocked & embarrassed that I HAD NEVER THOUGHT OF THAT. Because the emotional abuse aspects had me so cowered. I never would have imposed to ask him for something just for me. When further responses clarified that there ARE men who “get” from giving- I realized I’d been with a most ungenerous lover this whole time & never knew it. If I were to ask for mouth or tongue action to satisfy me, I would have gotten the debate of “what does he get out of that?”
I did quickly gain great clarity. Not just about sex but how that power imbalance pervaded all aspects of the household, the finances, my work ambition, everything in the relationship.
I’m not sure which phase was worse, but I am grateful my eyes got opened up by the celibacy. And SO, SO grateful for the EP ILIASM group helping me see my own reality when I couldn’t see it for myself.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2018 7:40:53 GMT -5
As a zero sex sufferer I am not sure about that tirefire . It is absolutely clearer though. Agreed. As a former sufferer of multiple years of absolutely NO sex, it was far worse. If there was at least vacation sex, I would have stayed. Anything to show me there was attraction and passion still; one good fuck a year would have kept me. What if it had been four terrible, selfish fucks?
|
|
|
Post by ironhamster on Jun 24, 2018 9:11:27 GMT -5
My last year I put a LOT of pressure on my wife. Technically, we barely ended the year outside the clinical definition of a sexless marriage. Some might think of that as a win, but, it's not. It was absolutely heartbreaking. Nothing I did was good for her, and everything she did was just to placate me.
My time would have been better spent jacking off while fantasizing about being with a woman that wanted to be with me.
|
|
|
Post by baza on Jun 26, 2018 22:34:36 GMT -5
Oftentimes in here, stories seem to tell of two different agendas were in play when people got married.
An extreme (but not unusual) example.
You married your spouse on an agenda of - Your version of love, a partnership, a robust sex life, kids. But they married you on an agenda of - Their version of love, financial stability, social appearance, kids.
The compatible part of the two agenda's is "the kids".....and that's it.
Your version of love and their version of love are very different. Your version of partnership and theirs are different. As are the respective versions of a robust sex life, financial stability, social appearance.
Sometimes, one of the spouses was disingenuous about their true agenda (that is to say they lied about, say, wanting a robust sex life) and pulled the old 'bait and switch' on you.
Sometimes, one of the spouses went in to the deal truly believing that they wanted X, Y and Z - and only discovered after some time in that that was not what they wanted at all (that is to say they went into the deal in good faith, but discovered they didn't want X and Y at all)
But unfortunately, it doesn't matter a rats arse "why" the incompatibilities are there (whether they have arisen by deceit or by accident). A big fuck up is the end result...and the resolution method is the same either way.
|
|
|
Post by unmatched on Jun 27, 2018 0:47:04 GMT -5
At the risk of being nitpicking, the first thing you wrote in your post made me wonder a bit... You say you have complete love for your wife, but she has only friendship/family love for you. What does that actually mean? If you see a parent, or a sibling, or better still one of your kids when they grow up getting steadily more and more miserable because sex is really important to them and they aren't getting any, what do you think you would do? Would you feel comfortable telling them that they are not allowed to have any but they should get over it because everything else in their life is OK? Would you be happy to brush it under the carpet because you don't know how to deal with it? I don't see any great love in that. Just a desire not to upset the status quo. Then I have to agree with you about co-dependence. My marriage was massively co-dependent and I would be willing to bet that holds true for the vast majority of people here. But for me co-dependence had nothing to do with being scared my wife would leave. I knew she wouldn't. For me it was because there is a huge pattern in my life of me not valuing myself enough and then jumping through lots of hoops to try and feel some 'earned' value reflected back at me from other people. So in my marriage I was feeling worse and worse and then to compensate for that I was trying to be better and more self sacrificing and more hard working in order that I could look at myself and feel good about me. And the fact that I could also feel superior and self-satisfied and resentful was an added bonus But in practice I was digging my hole deeper. And from my wife's point of view, if I didn't value myself enough to be happy just being me, how was she ever going to value me enough to feel excited and turned on by me. The only way this shifted was by me eventually taking a hard look in the mirror and being able to say, 'I actually quite like myself. I am worth more than this. I value myself enough to feel OK with making my needs a priority.' At that point things became a lot simpler. That might be quite different from your version of co-dependency, I don't know. But in everything that is going on, try looking at yourself and asking, 'How much am I valuing myself right now?' and see what happens.
|
|
|
Post by saarinista on Jun 30, 2018 13:08:33 GMT -5
Agreed. As a former sufferer of multiple years of absolutely NO sex, it was far worse. If there was at least vacation sex, I would have stayed. Anything to show me there was attraction and passion still; one good fuck a year would have kept me. What if it had been four terrible, selfish fucks? 4 terrible, selfish fucks=40 minutes that could better be spent sleeping!
|
|
okiedude
Junior Member
Learning to live with my Situation.
Posts: 87
Age Range: 46-50
|
Post by okiedude on Jul 2, 2018 20:55:18 GMT -5
At the risk of being nitpicking, the first thing you wrote in your post made me wonder a bit... You say you have complete love for your wife, but she has only friendship/family love for you. What does that actually mean? If you see a parent, or a sibling, or better still one of your kids when they grow up getting steadily more and more miserable because sex is really important to them and they aren't getting any, what do you think you would do? Would you feel comfortable telling them that they are not allowed to have any but they should get over it because everything else in their life is OK? Would you be happy to brush it under the carpet because you don't know how to deal with it? I don't see any great love in that. Just a desire not to upset the status quo. Then I have to agree with you about co-dependence. My marriage was massively co-dependent and I would be willing to bet that holds true for the vast majority of people here. But for me co-dependence had nothing to do with being scared my wife would leave. I knew she wouldn't. For me it was because there is a huge pattern in my life of me not valuing myself enough and then jumping through lots of hoops to try and feel some 'earned' value reflected back at me from other people. So in my marriage I was feeling worse and worse and then to compensate for that I was trying to be better and more self sacrificing and more hard working in order that I could look at myself and feel good about me. And the fact that I could also feel superior and self-satisfied and resentful was an added bonus But in practice I was digging my hole deeper. And from my wife's point of view, if I didn't value myself enough to be happy just being me, how was she ever going to value me enough to feel excited and turned on by me. The only way this shifted was by me eventually taking a hard look in the mirror and being able to say, 'I actually quite like myself. I am worth more than this. I value myself enough to feel OK with making my needs a priority.' At that point things became a lot simpler. That might be quite different from your version of co-dependency, I don't know. But in everything that is going on, try looking at yourself and asking, 'How much am I valuing myself right now?' and see what happens. Thank you for your reply... When I say I have complete love for my wife that is, I think, the main issue many of us fight with... We "love" our spouse. If not we would dump them and move on after the first real issue. We want to have this relationship. When I put down the negatives vs the positives the positives are much more and the negatives are much less... However sex is the cement of a marriage and has so many both physical but more importantly psychological attributes. My wife is a loving, giving, kind, sweet and thoughtful person. She is a great mother and companion however.... Sex is an issue. This is why we bang our heads against the wall... So why do we stay in a sexless marriage? I wish she was a terrible person, I wish she was a bad mom. I so wish it was more because when I think about leaving her, I am the monster. The ungrateful one. If I stray from the vows I am the bad guy. This is because our sex life is lacking, only maybe 8 - 10 times a year? When we do have sex it is not bad. It is usually good unless I fail... because I have such resentment because it is one sided. I just want the love I have for her connected sexually. That is the frustration
|
|
|
Post by GeekGoddess on Jul 2, 2018 22:25:22 GMT -5
okiedude - I don’t think you are the first in the SM to “stray from the vows” I see unilaterally-imposed celibacy as straying from her vow to “have and to hold” and “to love and to cherish” - I mean, I think that’s the part that’s about sex (because what’re they gonna do - SAY “and to root” right there in the church?) So maybe you see 8-10 times per year as “not celibate” and maybe that is adding to the angst. As well, maybe the fact that when she deigns to “give you” a taste, it’s not bad. I had neither of those “problems” to cloud the issue in my SM, and I guess I’m grateful for that, really. Three years of pure celibacy made it exceedingly clear which spouse abandoned his vow in my marriage. And that did make it easier to walk away from my 17-yr marriage. Wishing you clarity. And the ability to value, and honor, your needs.
|
|
|
Post by shamwow on Jul 3, 2018 15:15:01 GMT -5
okiedude - I don’t think you are the first in the SM to “stray from the vows” I see unilaterally-imposed celibacy as straying from her vow to “have and to hold” and “to love and to cherish” - I mean, I think that’s the part that’s about sex (because what’re they gonna do - SAY “and to root” right there in the church?) So maybe you see 8-10 times per year as “not celibate” and maybe that is adding to the angst. As well, maybe the fact that when she deigns to “give you” a taste, it’s not bad. I had neither of those “problems” to cloud the issue in my SM, and I guess I’m grateful for that, really. Three years of pure celibacy made it exceedingly clear which spouse abandoned his vow in my marriage. And that did make it easier to walk away from my 17-yr marriage. Wishing you clarity. And the ability to value, and honor, your needs. Only in hindsight can I agree with this. But I agree with it wholeheartedly. If you look at a marriage as a contract, the husband and wife agree to love and honor, have and to hold. In sickness and health till death till they part. My three years of celibacy showed me exactly who broke the contract. Me leaving? Well, till death do you part is just one of the terms and conditions. If I'd felt loved even a few times per year? Not just had and held, but loved and honored? I probably would have stayed. So, yeah, the 3 years of complete celibacy did provide amazing clarity. Now I glad it happened. But certainly not at the time.
|
|
okiedude
Junior Member
Learning to live with my Situation.
Posts: 87
Age Range: 46-50
|
Post by okiedude on Jul 9, 2018 13:36:49 GMT -5
okiedude - I don’t think you are the first in the SM to “stray from the vows” I see unilaterally-imposed celibacy as straying from her vow to “have and to hold” and “to love and to cherish” - I mean, I think that’s the part that’s about sex (because what’re they gonna do - SAY “and to root” right there in the church?) So maybe you see 8-10 times per year as “not celibate” and maybe that is adding to the angst. As well, maybe the fact that when she deigns to “give you” a taste, it’s not bad. I had neither of those “problems” to cloud the issue in my SM, and I guess I’m grateful for that, really. Three years of pure celibacy made it exceedingly clear which spouse abandoned his vow in my marriage. And that did make it easier to walk away from my 17-yr marriage. Wishing you clarity. And the ability to value, and honor, your needs. I never thought about her vow to "have and to hold" and "to love and to cherish". I do think I made a vow to never have sex with anyone else but her, not a vow to never have sex at all. Thank you for your input. I wish that that there was a "script" on how to talk to your mate about sexual frustration that covered the normal objections to having sex. I can understand physical constraints but when there is no obvious issue that is when the damage is done.
|
|