|
Post by shamwow on Jun 8, 2018 20:02:32 GMT -5
No amount of money would be worth another year lost. But let's turn the question around.
How much money would you give to get one of those years back? For me seeing how happy I am? The answer is quite a bit.
|
|
|
Post by WindSister on Jun 8, 2018 20:32:18 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by DryCreek on Jun 9, 2018 1:44:57 GMT -5
baza, you're right, of course, that nobody's entitled to their spouse's half of the assets. That point addresses folks who are bitter about "losing" assets, but it overlooks the practical math that retirement for a single person costs more than 50% of a couple's cost. (I.e., variable costs like food and airfare might be half, but there's no savings on housing, hotels, rental cars, etc.) Then, the vast majority of Americans have no retirement savings, making the odds high that a future partner isn't bringing anything to the game. So, if one needed X for retirement before divorce, they still need most of X after parting with half, no? If we agree that Social Security doesn't offer a great quality of life, and it's only slated to get worse, then one needs to provide for their own retirement. Thus, divorce = a lot more working years. And the value of those years needs to be weighed against the emotional cost of staying,
|
|
|
Post by baza on Jun 9, 2018 5:27:45 GMT -5
This - different - question of "how much is enough" is an interesting one Brother DryCreek . In an ILIASM context, (and assuming you are a prudent financial manager) it adds a lot of weight to the arguement to get out ASAP. Particularly if your spouse was the cause of the financial distress. The more time you can give yourself by (getting out) to rectify your financial position, the better.
|
|
|
Post by shamwow on Jun 9, 2018 10:19:24 GMT -5
baza, you're right, of course, that nobody's entitled to their spouse's half of the assets. That point addresses folks who are bitter about "losing" assets, but it overlooks the practical math that retirement for a single person costs more than 50% of a couple's cost. (I.e., variable costs like food and airfare might be half, but there's no savings on housing, hotels, rental cars, etc.) Then, the vast majority of Americans have no retirement savings, making the odds high that a future partner isn't bringing anything to the game. So, if one needed X for retirement before divorce, they still need most of X after parting with half, no? If we agree that Social Security doesn't offer a great quality of life, and it's only slated to get worse, then one needs to provide for their own retirement. Thus, divorce = a lot more working years. And the value of those years needs to be weighed against the emotional cost of staying, When my ex and I split assets, we each got around 300k. She got 10-1 cash and I got the reverse of that in retirement. I gave her the choice of how she wanted the split to work and that's what she decided. Was it fun to write the check? Nope. Was it rightfully her money? Yup. The way she is hemmoraging cash, it will last her a few years. But it's her money to blow. Would I give her my half too if I could have avoided the two decades of pain and the accompanying emotional wreckage? Probably so. But maybe I would have wound up with another person just like my ex. Maybe I needed the life lesson of my SM to get to where I am today. You can look at it as "losing" half your shit. I've come to think of it as very expensive tuition.
|
|
|
Post by DryCreek on Jun 9, 2018 11:43:30 GMT -5
You can look at it as "losing" half your shit. I've come to think of it as very expensive tuition. Hmmm. There seems to be a sense that I'm hung up on the "losing half my stuff". I'm not. It's about the lifestyle impact of divorce. Beyond "I'd have to give up luxuries", into "I'd have to give up years of my life". Maybe my point will be clearer if I flip roles... A stay-at-home spouse with the freedom to meet socially, support charities, travel with friends, explore interests... faced with the prospect of instead working 40-60 hours a week for the next couple decades. Before even considering all the other factors (e.g., time with kids, low income, quality of life), that's a very direct "years of my life" tradeoff. For some people, it's still a no-brainer - they'd gnaw off a limb to get free. For others, it's enough to give pause about how intolerable their situation really is, and whether "sucking it up" is the less painful option, even if it's an awful option.
|
|
|
Post by dallasgia on Jun 9, 2018 11:59:07 GMT -5
I could say a lot about money, (but I have pages of posts on that) so I digress. I'd rather take a different angle, and that is "putting a price on how much a year of my life is worth to me". I'm 54 now, I'm not getting any younger, in a few months I'll be able to get a senior discount (how depressing) I want to enter the dating arena. I'd like to think I am fortunate to have a younger look for a 54 yr old, so many thoughts enter my mind about other woman who are 54. What will they look like, what will they be like, what will they think of me? How many will still be raising children? How many are retired? How many won't look a day over 40 and think and act like they are still 40? What would a 45 yr old woman or a 65 yr old woman think of me? The point is every year that you postpone divorce you are a year older, so is the dating pool you will be heading into. A divorce could take a few months, it could take years. (mine has taken 3 yrs. From the day it entered my mind until today, and parts of it are still falling into place). Will my libido slow down? My hair line keeps receding, my weight doesn't come off as easy, My teeth, hearing, and vision all need more work, I don't sleep through the night anymore etc... Will there come a point where sex/intimacy/ a relationship/friendship get put way on the back burner due to all the emotional, physical, and financial healing that needs to take place? The clock keeps ticking ,year after year, and with that comes a price....get those missed years back while there is still time, how do you put a price on that? I tango with those exact same thoughts daily. Ugh.
|
|
|
Post by dallasgia on Jun 9, 2018 12:10:56 GMT -5
I could say a lot about money, (but I have pages of posts on that) so I digress. I'd rather take a different angle, and that is "putting a price on how much a year of my life is worth to me". I'm 54 now, I'm not getting any younger, in a few months I'll be able to get a senior discount (how depressing) I want to enter the dating arena. I'd like to think I am fortunate to have a younger look for a 54 yr old, so many thoughts enter my mind about other woman who are 54. What will they look like, what will they be like, what will they think of me? How many will still be raising children? How many are retired? How many won't look a day over 40 and think and act like they are still 40? What would a 45 yr old woman or a 65 yr old woman think of me? The point is every year that you postpone divorce you are a year older, so is the dating pool you will be heading into. A divorce could take a few months, it could take years. (mine has taken 3 yrs. From the day it entered my mind until today, and parts of it are still falling into place). Will my libido slow down? My hair line keeps receding, my weight doesn't come off as easy, My teeth, hearing, and vision all need more work, I don't sleep through the night anymore etc... Will there come a point where sex/intimacy/ a relationship/friendship get put way on the back burner due to all the emotional, physical, and financial healing that needs to take place? The clock keeps ticking ,year after year, and with that comes a price....get those missed years back while there is still time, how do you put a price on that? I tango with those exact same thoughts daily. Ugh. Only, flip the genders - lol
|
|
|
Post by greatcoastal on Jun 9, 2018 12:26:17 GMT -5
But wait! There's more!!...
Another year, and then another year...can also mean being forced to stay in that dead end end job. fealing forced to tolerate toxic relatives. If you're the stay at home parent , that means more years of your resume becoming invalid, people and companies you once worked for have moved on or no longer exist.. it also means as your kids get older they get wiser, wiser than you even! They begin to see the cold distance in the marriage. The y can feel forced to take sides, or pull away from you more and more...Every added year comes with a price.
For some their may be benefits, legal benefits (like life long alimony, or the down side of paying it) paying off debts together, thinking the kids are better off if we stay together until they are out of H.S. or college etc...
But what about you? What about your needs, health, financial status, emotional baggage? In many cases time just adds on to those, the clock keeps ticking.
|
|
|
Post by mescaline on Jun 9, 2018 14:40:41 GMT -5
The trick is to always keep an eye on the cost/benefit analysis of the situation. Then at least you can recognise when the latter is outweighed by the former.
Of course you do need to be completely objective about it and we all know how hard that is. ILIASM provides me with that objectivity better than anything else!
|
|
|
Post by workingonit on Jun 9, 2018 20:56:35 GMT -5
I could say a lot about money, (but I have pages of posts on that) so I digress. I'd rather take a different angle, and that is "putting a price on how much a year of my life is worth to me". I'm 54 now, I'm not getting any younger, in a few months I'll be able to get a senior discount (how depressing) I want to enter the dating arena. I'd like to think I am fortunate to have a younger look for a 54 yr old, so many thoughts enter my mind about other woman who are 54. What will they look like, what will they be like, what will they think of me? How many will still be raising children? How many are retired? How many won't look a day over 40 and think and act like they are still 40? What would a 45 yr old woman or a 65 yr old woman think of me? The point is every year that you postpone divorce you are a year older, so is the dating pool you will be heading into. A divorce could take a few months, it could take years. (mine has taken 3 yrs. From the day it entered my mind until today, and parts of it are still falling into place). Will my libido slow down? My hair line keeps receding, my weight doesn't come off as easy, My teeth, hearing, and vision all need more work, I don't sleep through the night anymore etc... Will there come a point where sex/intimacy/ a relationship/friendship get put way on the back burner due to all the emotional, physical, and financial healing that needs to take place? The clock keeps ticking ,year after year, and with that comes a price....get those missed years back while there is still time, how do you put a price on that? This is a drum beat in my head all the time right now. And it is worse as a woman. The dreaded menopause on the horizon. And talking to men my age - they all want to date women 10 years younger than them!! I am not at your stage yet at all, still in my SM. Still planning a 4-5 year exit strategy. But everyday I get older and 4 years feels like a long long time
|
|
|
Post by baza on Jun 9, 2018 22:02:39 GMT -5
Whether you are - Single. Single but planning on getting married. Married. Married but planning on getting divorced. It is YOUR job, and no-one elses, to manage YOUR financial affairs. That is a basic responsibility every adult has.
And, obviously, the sooner you start on that management of your financial affairs - the better - as this is yet another aspect of life that may involve short term pain for long term gain. You will reap the consequences of your financial management - or lack there-of - over the years when you were 20. 30, 40, 50, 60 - when you are about 65.
Did you really need to spend (or worse, borrow) that $35k on your wedding and honeymoon back when you were 30 ? Did you need to buy that Audi Quatro (or worse, borrow) that money when a 5 year old Toyota Camry would do the same job ? Was it smart to stay in a marriage where your spouse spends (or worse, borrows) like a demon ?
In financial life, the truth is that you pay. You get to choose "when" you pay. Pay it by living a modest lifestyle early on and building a solid financial base which will allow you a comfortable life later ? Pay it by spending (or worse, borrowing) in the moment, and being forced into a modest lifestyle later ?
|
|
|
Post by dallasgia on Jun 9, 2018 22:15:19 GMT -5
The trick is to always keep an eye on the cost/benefit analysis of the situation. Then at least you can recognise when the latter is outweighed by the former. It’s that constant keeping of the cost/benefit. It applies to the kids separately from yourself. To err on the side of what’s best for the kids - sacrificial surrender. It brings on fatigue. Hearing words of wisdom on that would be helpful. Trying to raise 3 boys here. Is it better for them to see their mom ignored and dismissed or to see their mom break up the family? As that is how it will look if Mom is the one who initiates the split.
|
|
|
Post by greatcoastal on Jun 9, 2018 22:31:23 GMT -5
I could say a lot about money, (but I have pages of posts on that) so I digress. I'd rather take a different angle, and that is "putting a price on how much a year of my life is worth to me". I'm 54 now, I'm not getting any younger, in a few months I'll be able to get a senior discount (how depressing) I want to enter the dating arena. I'd like to think I am fortunate to have a younger look for a 54 yr old, so many thoughts enter my mind about other woman who are 54. What will they look like, what will they be like, what will they think of me? How many will still be raising children? How many are retired? How many won't look a day over 40 and think and act like they are still 40? What would a 45 yr old woman or a 65 yr old woman think of me? The point is every year that you postpone divorce you are a year older, so is the dating pool you will be heading into. A divorce could take a few months, it could take years. (mine has taken 3 yrs. From the day it entered my mind until today, and parts of it are still falling into place). Will my libido slow down? My hair line keeps receding, my weight doesn't come off as easy, My teeth, hearing, and vision all need more work, I don't sleep through the night anymore etc... Will there come a point where sex/intimacy/ a relationship/friendship get put way on the back burner due to all the emotional, physical, and financial healing that needs to take place? The clock keeps ticking ,year after year, and with that comes a price....get those missed years back while there is still time, how do you put a price on that? This is a drum beat in my head all the time right now. And it is worse as a woman. The dreaded menopause on the horizon. And talking to men my age - they all want to date women 10 years younger than them!! I am not at your stage yet at all, still in my SM. Still planning a 4-5 year exit strategy. But everyday I get older and 4 years feels like a long long time Sadly, I've got some more bad news for you. I'm going to get blasted for this. Let me clarifying by stating :This is not my mentality or logic, this is not how all men think, this does not apply to all men, this will not apply to all woman, this is a generality, so please take it that way. Men DO want woman 10 yrs younger than them. why? These are the same woman who when they where 19 did not find the men at 19 attractive. The same woman who at age 25 where interested in men 35 who had 6 figure incomes, fancy cars, houses ,etc.... Now these same woman are 50 yrs old and divorced, they gave birth multiple times, they have teenagers living with them, (how many more years until that teen is out of the house? that's going to remain there top priory, not this new guy) they have there own home and a decent income. What does a guy 50 yrs old and older care about? How you look and act with your clothes off, not that you own a house or have a big income. Your body isn't what it was when you where 19, neither is his, but he can get a younger woman .Not as easy for you to get a younger man, (or even one your age) maybe a one night stand where you get used and the young guy expects you to make breakfast for him and he doesn't have a job. It's not the love AND A RELATIONSHIP that woman at that age say they want. So this general thinking is ,Woman who where liking older men in their youth are now older, so are the same men who got rejected back then . Those men go after younger woman, (some do because, these men offer the money, power and control, and they can) What does that leave the 50 and over woman with? Men who are in there 60's hitting on them . Some of you may not like that at all, I really don't like it either, at 54 yrs old the thought of some 28 yr old woman wanting to be with me for sex is wrong on so many levels, but it is part of the society around me. Does that mean that I will be able to date/hook up with 44 yr old woman? Most likely. A question for you @workingonit, does your 4-5 yr exit plan take into consideration that your divorce could be one of the 20-30% that go to court and get strung out for 2 to 3 yrs? Add that to your age when you are now entering the dating pool.
|
|
|
Post by workingonit on Jun 9, 2018 22:41:13 GMT -5
This is a drum beat in my head all the time right now. And it is worse as a woman. The dreaded menopause on the horizon. And talking to men my age - they all want to date women 10 years younger than them!! I am not at your stage yet at all, still in my SM. Still planning a 4-5 year exit strategy. But everyday I get older and 4 years feels like a long long time Sadly, I've got some more bad news for you. I'm going to get blasted for this. Let me clarifying by stating :This is not my mentality or logic, this is not how all men think, this does not apply to all men, this will not apply to all woman,this is a generality,so please take it that way. Men do want woman 10yrs younger than them. why? These are the same woman who when they where 19 did not find the men at 19 attractive. The same woman who at age 25 where interested in men 35 who had 6 figure incomes, fancy cars, etc.... Now these same woman are 50 yrs old and divorced, they gave birth multiple times, they have teenagers living with them, (how many more years until that teen is out of the house? that's going to remain your top priory, not this new guy) they have their own home and a decent income. What does a guy 50 yrs old and older care about? How you look and act with your clothes off. Your body isn't what it was when you where 19, neither is his, but he can get a younger woman .Not as easy for you to get a younger man, (or even one your age) maybe a one night stand where you get used and the young guy expects you to make breakfast for him and he doesn't have a job. It's not the love AND A RELATIONSHIP that woman at that age say they want. So this general thinking is ,Woman who where liking older men in their youth are now older, the same men who got rejected back then . They go after younger woman, (some because, these men offer the money, power and control, and they can) What does that leave the 50 and over woman with? Men who are in there 60's hitting on them . Some of you may not like that at all, I really don't like it either, at 54 yrs old the thought of some 28 yr old wanting to be with me for sex is wrong on so many levels, but it is part of the society around me. Does that mean that I will be able to date/hook up with 44 yr old woman? Most likely. A question for you @workingonit, does your 4-5 yr exit plan take into consideration that your divorce could be one of the 20-30% that go to court and get strung out for 2 to 3 yrs? Add that to your age when you are now entering the dating pool. No, greatcoastal it does not. I have a hard time imagining divorce going that way but I know too much from this site and from friends than to count on it. I also hate that this is the way it is but I agree with you that it is that way. At least in limited samplings. Obviously, anything can happen but if we are just looking at numbers and statistics, I think you are right. I honestly have deep despair about every having what I want. I want to believe there is a shamwow to my ballofconfusion but there is no guarantee and some days I really doubt it. When I am in despair I think I will likely be alone. But at least the POTENTIAL will be there, which I think is better than life now
|
|