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Post by baza on Jul 9, 2018 5:16:15 GMT -5
This is just a personal observation Sister elynne - and not directly on topic either - but it surprises me that you still root this bloke.
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Post by elynne on Jul 9, 2018 7:14:26 GMT -5
This is just a personal observation Sister elynne - and not directly on topic either - but it surprises me that you still root this bloke. The joys of growing up with a narcissistic mother. One learns to handle the unacceptable, a high tolerance for emotional pain and that personal boundaries don’t exist. My motivation now is to stop the cycle and protect the girls from learning these same lessons.
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Post by DryCreek on Jul 9, 2018 7:41:27 GMT -5
My motivation now is to stop the cycle and protect the girls from learning these same lessons. My impression after reading your note was the same... you are tackling the hard task of breaking a cycle that will continue for generations and multiply. Among your husband’s attributes, he seems to be a scorekeeper, always seeking to even the score when he feels at a disadvantage (but, of course, never when it’s in his favor). It’s petty; the sort of thing a small-minded person focuses on - I find it unlikely that he’s been successful in his business by treating his professional peers the same way he treats you. But holy cow, where he gets this imagery and then thinks it’s OK to threaten a child with it (and then, clearly directing it to one child). He sounds like one of the nasty characters from a Charles Dickens story - even in the 1800’s they knew this was horrible. I can only think that your husband had a terrible childhood to think this is OK.
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Post by surfergirl on Jul 9, 2018 9:11:18 GMT -5
For efficiency's sake, it'd be awesome if you just printed out your post and handed it to the therapist. That's a great way to stop the rabbit trails.
Second thought: as I am still dealing with the fallout of my divorce last month, I see my husband's --wait....EX-HUSBAND'S--- horrible treatment as a GOOD THING. Every time he does something shitty -- cut off my credit card without telling me, cancelled the TV at the primary residence in the middle of summer break on the kids, pulled a no-show at our weekly co-parent meeting, stonewalled me -- I think, "Thank God. If he was being nice, I would be questioning my decision."
See it as a GOOD THING. Not because it is good but because your eyes are opened and you can stop looping.
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Post by elynne on Jul 9, 2018 10:29:10 GMT -5
My motivation now is to stop the cycle and protect the girls from learning these same lessons. My impression after reading your note was the same... you are tackling the hard task of breaking a cycle that will continue for generations and multiply. Among your husband’s attributes, he seems to be a scorekeeper, always seeking to even the score when he feels at a disadvantage (but, of course, never when it’s in his favor). It’s petty; the sort of thing a small-minded person focuses on - I find it unlikely that he’s been successful in his business by treating his professional peers the same way he treats you. But holy cow, where he gets this imagery and then thinks it’s OK to threaten a child with it (and then, clearly directing it to one child). He sounds like one of the nasty characters from a Charles Dickens story - even in the 1800’s they knew this was horrible. I can only think that your husband had a terrible childhood to think this is OK. His mother is quite a character. I can only imagine what it would have been like to grow up with her. His Dad retreated to his study and didn’t engage with her or the kids. She certainly has NPD- needs constant attention and validation. Completely self-focused. Her second husband has had multiple life threatening health issues over the past months and she constantly complains about how it affects her; he’s not there to mop the floor, she wants to go to a dinner party but he’s not well enough...
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Post by nyctos on Jul 9, 2018 11:28:49 GMT -5
Sister elynne, I feel so worried for you -- that your h would deliberately ignore your concerns this way, and continue to hurt you. When he brought up things you said that he didn't like, did you apologize? I bet you did, even though he refuses to change the things he says. If your H really undercut you publicly out of some concept of revenge,I fear you're in for a lot of pain in the future. An eye for an eye in a relationship seems like a particularly bad policy.
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Post by bballgirl on Jul 9, 2018 12:31:47 GMT -5
The next time your H interrupts your conversation and belittles you which may happen at the therapy session - try to remember to say, “I’m talking with so and so, have some respect and don’t interrupt my conversation. We are doing just fine without your 2 cents”.
Another thing your H has an issue with saying the words “I’m sorry”. When you bring up something that bothers you and he deflects then starts a new argument you must reel him back in. “Wait a minute, one issue at a time, I’m telling you something that bothers me, what do you have to say for yourself?”
The way he talks to you and the children is disgusting. I would definitely bring this up in therapy. He is not normal. Surfergrl had a good idea with printing out what you wrote and reading it in therapy.
In my opinion he will not change. You will never receive from this man what you need as a woman so he does not deserve the privilege of being your husband. I’m not sure if you are still trying to work on it in hopes he will change but I promise you he won’t. I got back with Mr Bballgirl and he is still the same zero libido, baseball obsessed, gambling addictive personality, stays up until 3 am, poor eating habits, etc. I can go on and on. I lived with him for 23 years people don’t change and I knew exactly what I was doing when we got back together so I’m not complaining. I’m actually quite happy. My point is your husband won’t change and his behavior is mean and disgusting- you deserve better and you should want better for yourself. You also need to treat yourself better.
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Post by choosinghappy on Jul 9, 2018 14:54:55 GMT -5
It’s perhaps a twisted path, but I believe I’m beginning to come to terms with the bitter truth and I’m feeling the urgency to protect my daughters and minimize the impact that their father has on them (AND the impact that I have on them by exposing them to such unhealthy family dynamics.) I certainly don’t want them growing up thinking that treating people like their father treats me is ok. Nor do I want them to think that being treated in this way is acceptable. You also need to treat yourself better. ^^What bballgirl said. Read what you wrote above; you wouldn't want your daughters to be treated the way you are treated when they get married. So why is it acceptable for you to continue to be treated this way? Whenever I read the play-by-play conversations you write, elynne, all I can think to myself as I read is: My god, that sounds EXHAUSTING. Just trying to have a conversation and communicate is exhausting. That is not how a marriage should be. I can't quite understand what it is you keep trying to "work on" with this man. You seem to understand that the way he treats you is horrible. The way he treats your daughters is horrible and likely will have extremely negative side effects down the road. What exactly is it you keep fighting for/trying to work towards?
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Post by northstarmom on Jul 9, 2018 15:28:52 GMT -5
Considering his abusive treatment of you and your daughter I don’t know how you can want and enjoy sex with him.
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Post by greatcoastal on Jul 9, 2018 15:56:17 GMT -5
I must say that if my spouse had been saying 'verbal threats of physical and mental abuse' towards me and the children, my response would have been "how about we record that and put it in writing, you can sign it too".
That sounds like some valuable evidence. If such behavior continues during the divorce (soon hopefully) find out if you can legally (or even illegally,and still use it) record such abuse.
What also annoys me is the narc.behavior that you, and your daughters, need to get away from.
Your H is a professional, business man, practicing medicine. Does any one think he treats his patients, staff or colleagues like this? Of course not. He knows exactly what he is doing , what he can get away with, and has a "damn the consequences" attitude that will remain unto the next victim.
Run...Run away yesterday! Continue with your progress,and look at the obvious and forget what a " professional" has to say. That's just more stalling.
I look forward to the time your motherly 'mad as a momma bear' instincts take over.
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Post by saarinista on Jul 9, 2018 16:35:20 GMT -5
elynne did you ever get your own therapist, as opposed to a couples therapist? It sounds hopeless. You need a support system to help you out, perhaps. I wouldn't have sex with him, though. What's the point?
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Post by DryCreek on Jul 9, 2018 17:48:55 GMT -5
... he does not deserve the privilege of being your husband. +1 elynne, you seem like a remarkable woman. You deserve a stellar guy who treats you well. What you’re getting is quite the opposite, and many rungs lower. You need to find that self-confidence you had at the conference and hold onto it! Meanwhile, a bunch of us guys will ponder how a such self-centered asshat still manages to have sex with his wife...
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Post by JMX on Jul 9, 2018 19:24:27 GMT -5
elynne - geez girl. Do NOT get the therapists talking together, even if your husband approves. If you make that move, you are essentially spending boo-koo bucks to ensure you all keep paying therapists and for what? Nothing. Save that money for your LAWYER! Concentrate on you. Jeebus - he just Virginia Woolfed his favorite child - in theory, and in jest? He went THERE! You’re not even his favorite of all of them. Please, sleep with a knife under your pillow and remove once you do. Or don’t. Keep it under your pillow. Dude is NOT right. That’s not just solidarity - that is fear for your life.
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Post by greatcoastal on Jul 10, 2018 11:01:49 GMT -5
For efficiency's sake, it'd be awesome if you just printed out your post and handed it to the therapist. That's a great way to stop the rabbit trails. Second thought: as I am still dealing with the fallout of my divorce last month, I see my husband's --wait....EX-HUSBAND'S--- horrible treatment as a GOOD THING. Every time he does something shitty -- cut off my credit card without telling me, cancelled the TV at the primary residence in the middle of summer break on the kids, pulled a no-show at our weekly co-parent meeting, stonewalled me -- I think, "Thank God. If he was being nice, I would be questioning my decision." See it as a GOOD THING. Not because it is good but because your eyes are opened and you can stop looping. A little quote I sent to @elle in another post ( I think it fits in nicely) "Don't you love the clarity? I called mine confirmation! I tell myself, thank you that I made the right choice to get divorced".
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Post by elynne on Jul 11, 2018 2:15:51 GMT -5
A quick update after therapy.
I made all three of the points I wanted to make.
1. I got H’s agreement for all three therapists to communicate with each other.
2. We discussed his belittling comment telling me how I should be more polite (I am nothing if not polite and well spoken!)
3. We discussed his violent imagery with our youngest daughter. I was very frustrated with the therapist refusing to take a stand that such statements can be detrimental. She kept turning it to why I had a problem with it. I finally told a childhood story about my mother threatening to wash my mouth out with soap, and then sitting on me, holding my nose closed and shoving a bar of soap into my mouth. As I told the story, I saw the horror on the therapist and H’s faces. The therapist said, “What a horrible experience.” My reply, “It wasn’t that bad,” tears sliding down my face. H, got it though! He reached over to me, stroked my hand, tears in his eyes. He got why I react so strongly to his violent imagery used in joking threats to our youngest. I have to protect her. He got it. He talked about being aware of what he was saying.
It was a huge relief to reach him in a way that all of my comments like, “Hey! That’s not OK!” didn’t do. But part of me wonders why he defends his unacceptable behavior so fiercely until I share a painful childhood memory.
The therapist still insisted that I can not defend our youngest daughter in the moment, because having these sorts of arguments in front of the children is damaging to them. I told her I really struggle with that. That I’ve made a promise to myself and to her to always defend her. I asked, “How am I supposed to be silent when I have to protect my child? Where is the line that can’t be crossed? Am I supposed to do nothing if he follows through on his threats? I can not and will not do that.”
But he’d never actually hurt them, she said. I disagreed. He’s choked me in front of the children, I said. He denied it. I asked how can you deny that? Our youngest was in my arms. Our oldest was standing beside me! But youngest was only a baby, he said. (Admitting that she was there!)
I’m feeling very confused. Part of me is relieved that he can be reached. But there is so much extraneous dissemination, shifting of blame.
Looking forward to my next session with my therapist to work through it.
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