|
Post by choosinghappy on Feb 26, 2018 12:19:11 GMT -5
...not that I really have anything to refuse as he's certainly not initiating.
But, as I've seen with others on here before, I find myself no longer wanting to even accept those paltry little pecks he offers me. After so much refusal and then my choosing to officially stop initiating any kind of contact (sexual or otherwise) 9 months ago, I no longer want to even pretend.
We still give a peck good morning when we meet in the kitchen (since we rarely sleep in the same room anymore) and then also when he gets home from work or before bed but it's always him initiating and I often will busy myself to avoid it. I know he notices. I sometimes offer my forehead instead of my lips too because if I can't have what I want and need from him then I don't want anything.
I am tempted now to tell him that exact thing.
Has anyone told their spouse that if s/he is unable/unwilling to be intimate then they don't want any contact at all? If so, how has it gone? Has it helped you or has it just created more discord in the marriage?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2018 12:40:43 GMT -5
If I may expand on choosinghappy's question.... Are counter-refusers generally also refusing any form of touch, or only sex?
|
|
|
Post by h on Feb 26, 2018 12:45:03 GMT -5
I did exactly that last year sometime. I told her we could hold hands and have "pecks" but no touching anywhere else and no kissing that lasted longer than 2 seconds. I came right out and told her that if we weren't going to be having sex anytime soon, then ANY other touch was too painful for me to handle. It was like torture. It was like waving a delicious meal in front of someone who is starving to death and then throwing it in the trash. We cut out all physical contact for a few months until she finally understood a little bit of how I felt. She is a very physically (but not sexually) affectionate person and the lack of touching, cuddling, kissing, hugging, etc hit her very hard. Knowing your history and your H's history, I'm not sure if it would make a difference. For my W, it was a wake up call that led to some effort.
|
|
|
Post by choosinghappy on Feb 26, 2018 13:35:15 GMT -5
Knowing your history and your H's history, I'm not sure if it would make a difference. For my W, it was a wake up call that led to some effort. Sadly, I think you're probably right. I think he's felt relief that I have completely stopped initiating any contact. My guess is that I if I were to say anything about this it would just confuse him because I'm pretty sure he has what he wants right now when it comes to our marriage.
|
|
|
Post by greatcoastal on Feb 26, 2018 13:46:19 GMT -5
It comes back to control...doesn't it? I too would get my ceremonial two pecks a day. However all it took was two days in a row of turning my lips away and getting a peck on the cheek, then it ended for life, and I did it in the kitchen in front of the teens, just like she tried to show "affection/normalcy" in front of the teens.
Up went the defense wall.... a total reversal. it was answered with a shrug, and a whatever attitude, as the controller male or female slyly stays in control by acting like they are not bothered at all.
So what does that leave you with? A choice. Stay and tolerate it, ( keep throwing quarters down the empty coke machine) or leave, and give your precious, highly valuable commodity to someone who will return the investment- with interest!!
I'm sorry this happens to you (and the rest of us) learn and strengthen yourself from it, as I know you are doing!!
|
|
|
Post by h on Feb 26, 2018 13:51:22 GMT -5
Knowing your history and your H's history, I'm not sure if it would make a difference. For my W, it was a wake up call that led to some effort. Sadly, I think you're probably right. I think he's felt relief that I have completely stopped initiating any contact. My guess is that I if I were to say anything about this it would just confuse him because I'm pretty sure he has what he wants right now when it comes to our marriage. Maybe it would be an eye opener for him. He may finally agree to an open arrangement or an amicable divorce. Bottom line is, if he's not going to give you what you need then don't let him continue to have the marriage he wants. He won't change unless you make the situation less comfortable for him than it is now. You've told me many times to speak up for myself and don't let it go. Your turn.
|
|
|
Post by Dan on Feb 26, 2018 15:43:42 GMT -5
Has anyone told their spouse that if s/he is unable/unwilling to be intimate then they don't want any contact at all? If so, how has it gone? Has it helped you or has it just created more discord in the marriage? I'm in a very weird "don't ask don't tell" grey zone. I haven't announced verbally that "sex is done, touch is done"... but I'm definitely sending off that vibe. This is a bit of a wake up call, and she is trying to keep SOME level of touch alive. But the two times she's tried to initiate sex (since 2.5 years ago when we last had it), I've pulled away. And even her attempts and some frisky touching has been met with me seizing up, or pushing her hand away, or me just gritting my teeth and laying very still until she stops. Which would be OK with her (me not wanting sex at all) only if it is OK with me... which it isn't. But she hasn't asked. I think she's afraid of the double gut punch of this answer: "I don't think I ever want sex with you again" coupled with "and I'm not interested staying in a marriage with no sex"... which is, honestly, where I am right now.
|
|
|
Post by hopingforachange on Feb 26, 2018 16:01:58 GMT -5
Right now my marriage is like a yo-yo and I'm no longer attempting to dampen when she does things to mess up the relationship. There had been times where the wife has attempted to initiate and my body did on react. She would lay beside me and was fondling me and my body and mind had zero reaction, my dick stayed completely soft.
|
|
|
Post by baza on Feb 26, 2018 16:50:52 GMT -5
choosinghappyIt won't make a blind bit of difference to the level of sex in your deal whether you tell him you don't want those bullshit pecks, or not. So, tell him if you feel like it - or don't. If it provokes any response at all, I'd be super surprised. You might get a bullshit passive aggressive response like "don't you love me anymore ?" at best. Personally, I didn't have any necessity to ask my missus to stop with the pecks. By the end stages of my deal, we overtly and deliberately BOTH were involved in this weird kabuki dance of avoiding any contact, however incidental, altogether. Counter-refusing isn't actually a tactic or a strategy. It is more of an acknowledgement of the actual reality of your situation. As you correctly point out "...not that I really have anything to refuse as he's certainly not initiating".
|
|
|
Post by choosinghappy on Feb 26, 2018 17:11:18 GMT -5
choosinghappy It won't make a blind bit of difference to the level of sex in your deal whether you tell him you don't want those bullshit pecks, or not. baza I know this. Part of my unhappiness at the moment is due to continuing to live this lie. Sometimes I want to just call it what it is and stop the bullshit but at the same time, I'm not ready to leave yet (working on an exit plan but not there yet) and I don't know if stating my truth and telling him to knock off the BS "affection" is worth the potential disruption of the peace in our household that would likely result. I go back and forth in my thinking on this. I am changing through all of this introspection. And I'm trying to live more authentically and quite honestly, continuing to live this lie as we have been is just pissing me off now. Additionally, H is still in therapy trying to deal with his issues stemming from childhood sexual abuse. (He goes to his regular therapist twice a month and is also in an intensive therapy program for the PTSD caused by the CSA twice a month.) I've asked him how it's going ~4 times over the last 9 months and he will tell me "good" or "it's hard" or something like that but never elaborates. I've told him how I'm proud of him for continuing to go but that it's hard for me to have no idea what's happening, if he's making any progress, what to expect for the future, etc. and for me to have absolutely zero control over an issue that affects me so deeply. He acknowledged what I said and seemed to understand but all he's offered is (what he thinks of as) a reassuring: "Don't worry, things will be okay". I've asked him if I can come to one of his sessions soon and he's told me: "pretty soon but I'm not quite there yet". He gives me nothing. 9 months and I have no fucking clue if we are anywhere closer to being at a place where we can work on this together or not. (Okay, this is really just turning into a blabbing session now...) In the meantime though, I have lost pretty much all hope for our marriage. I am not in the same place mentally as I was 9 months ago when he went back to therapy. Then, I wanted him to be able to work on his issues and I hoped we could work together on the sexlessness. Now, I know he will never feel desire for me, even if he can bring himself to fuck me occasionally. I've determined that is no longer enough for me and I'm making my exit plan. Now, I am afraid that if I am truthful with him about wanting him to stop all contact that he will enter "crisis mode" and try to be intimate with me again to save the marriage. I no longer want that. We've had sex for the last time. I didn't know it then, but I know it now. I'm afraid that acknowledging the reality of our situation out loud with him will force this to a conclusion sooner than I will be ready for because I no longer want to work on it with him. I feel that it would be futile. However, it's getting harder and harder to live the lie every day and still keep my integrity.
|
|
|
Post by cagedadventurer on Feb 26, 2018 17:24:33 GMT -5
choosinghappy It won't make a blind bit of difference to the level of sex in your deal whether you tell him you don't want those bullshit pecks, or not. baza I know this. I am changing through all of this introspection. And I'm trying to live more authentically and quite honestly, continuing to live this lie as we have been is just pissing me off now I'm afraid that acknowledging the reality of our situation out loud with him will force this to a conclusion sooner than I will be ready for because I no longer want to work on it with him. I feel that it would be futile. However, it's getting harder and harder to live the lie every day and still keep my integrity. lonelywifey - I thank you for your clarity in this past post. I am in the same spot and your well articulated reflections help remind me not to be too rash. That is the right answer, "There is no benefit..." and you may force a conclusion sooner than you want to. I see this where you hold the cards, you have all the information, you just need to execute on your terms. Status Quo is the best answer. It keeps you in charge. Meanwhile, the rejection is real - I will not pretend. I was weak this morning.......
|
|
|
Post by TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo on Feb 26, 2018 17:41:48 GMT -5
choosinghappy It won't make a blind bit of difference to the level of sex in your deal whether you tell him you don't want those bullshit pecks, or not. I don't know if stating my truth and telling him to knock off the BS "affection" is worth the potential disruption of the peace in our household that would likely result. I go back and forth in my thinking on this. You are wise to think it through. Ive cut the BS out and its turned into a shit show of a completely different sort. One the one hand, it feels good to have the raw emotions come out and that level of transparency in relationship discussions. On the other hand, it sucks up alot of emotional energy. And some days, you just prefer not to have to get on the roller coaster.
|
|
|
Post by baza on Feb 26, 2018 17:47:13 GMT -5
Quoting you here Sister choosinghappy - "Part of my unhappiness at the moment is due to continuing to live this lie. Sometimes I want to just call it what it is and stop the bullshit but at the same time, I'm not ready to leave yet (working on an exit plan but not there yet) and I don't know if stating my truth and telling him to knock off the BS "affection" is worth the potential disruption of the peace in our household that would likely result. I go back and forth in my thinking on this" If it suits your agenda, then just shine him on whilst you develop your exit strategy into do-able shape, and endure the pecks as a short term inconvenience. The "truth" bit the dust in this deal quite a while back - his non disclosure of his issue before you committed to him started that ball rolling.
|
|
|
Post by obobfla on Feb 26, 2018 18:16:44 GMT -5
After hearing too often from my wife that she “just wanted to cuddle” and a very disappointing “romantic” weekend away, I told her that if she wanted any sex-related activity, she would have to ask me for it. I would no longer initiate it, and she would have to verbally ask me. She never did from that point.
We still kept up the physical affection, such as kissing each other goodbye in the morning and the occasional hug. Looking back now, I am glad I did that. But I was so frustrated for trying to get something going only to be disappointed later, so anything more than a hug and a kiss was something she would request. I would no longer ask for it.
|
|
|
Post by ihadalove on Feb 26, 2018 18:32:45 GMT -5
No, but if I'm pissed I'll withhold intimacy I know she wants; cuddling, being in the same space, going to bed with her, holding her in bed. I've never refused sex, I don't think I can.
|
|