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Post by csl on Feb 26, 2018 20:52:13 GMT -5
Knowing your history and your H's history, I'm not sure if it would make a difference. For my W, it was a wake up call that led to some effort. Sadly, I think you're probably right. I think he's felt relief that I have completely stopped initiating any contact. My guess is that I if I were to say anything about this it would just confuse him because I'm pretty sure he has what he wants right now when it comes to our marriage. Yeah, but the thing that these refusers/deniers don't see is that this point, this status, isn't a final destination, but is merely one point on a downward slide. Oh, they may have reached what is their intended destination, but there are no brakes, and the train will keep careening downhill. Nothing is static, and the momentum that brought you this far downhill will make sure that you keep on going.
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Post by csl on Feb 26, 2018 20:58:30 GMT -5
Personally, I didn't have any necessity to ask my Counter-refusing isn't actually a tactic or a strategy. It is more of an acknowledgement of the actual reality of your situation. As you correctly point out "...not that I really have anything to refuse as he's certainly not initiating". I refer to it as Therapeutic Distancing. My view is that it is a double-edged sword. On one hand, it helps to lessen the pain of refusal by limiting exposure to opportunities to be refused. But the other side is that it may deaden feelings of affection, if they still linger.
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Post by choosinghappy on Feb 26, 2018 21:08:20 GMT -5
Personally, I didn't have any necessity to ask my Counter-refusing isn't actually a tactic or a strategy. It is more of an acknowledgement of the actual reality of your situation. As you correctly point out "...not that I really have anything to refuse as he's certainly not initiating". I refer to it as Therapeutic Distancing. My view is that it is a double-edged sword. On one hand, it helps to lessen the pain of refusal by limiting exposure to opportunities to be refused. But the other side is that it may deaden feelings of affection, if they still linger. I don't find it therapeutic, I find it agonizing. In a way the distancing has saved my sanity by eliminating the pain of frequent, concrete rejection but it has replaced it with the pain of acknowledging that I am rejected by my chosen life partner overall and I will need to leave this situation. Now that I know that, I am finding it very difficult to keep up the act.
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Post by xpiatio on Feb 26, 2018 21:37:32 GMT -5
I've noticed that i've been subduing my intimacy toward her. She is at the stage where she thinks cuddling is a good substitute for anything more than cuddling. While we do cuddle, I don't really embrace her as I would if we were being intimate. I think its because I don't want to be expecting more. If I do and nothing comes of it, I get depressed. But why go down the road if I know I will be denied.
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Post by choosinghappy on Feb 26, 2018 21:48:03 GMT -5
I think its because I don't want to be expecting more. If I do and nothing comes of it, I get depressed. But why go down the road if I know I will be denied. I think this is what many of us (myself included) have done for a long time. And my guess is that our refuser spouses are happy with that because you are no longer "pestering" them for sex.
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Post by Dan on Feb 26, 2018 21:53:32 GMT -5
Part of my unhappiness at the moment is due to continuing to live this lie. Sometimes I want to just call it what it is and stop the bullshit but at the same time, I'm not ready to leave yet (working on an exit plan but not there yet) and I don't know if stating my truth and telling him to knock off the BS "affection" is worth the potential disruption of the peace in our household that would likely result. I go back and forth in my thinking on this. .... I'm afraid that acknowledging the reality of our situation out loud with him will force this to a conclusion sooner than I will be ready for because I no longer want to work on it with him. I feel that it would be futile. However, it's getting harder and harder to live the lie every day and still keep my integrity. I think I am in EXACTLY the same spot emotionally. Why show my hand now? It will only disrupt the peace I have now; I need that peace to work on my exit plan; without that peace it will spoil that last 1.5 years with my daughter. I've made it this far... I can hold on a bit longer.
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Post by xpiatio on Feb 26, 2018 21:56:52 GMT -5
I think its because I don't want to be expecting more. If I do and nothing comes of it, I get depressed. But why go down the road if I know I will be denied. I think this is what many of us (myself included) have done for a long time. And my guess is that our refuser spouses are happy with that because you are no longer "pestering" them for sex. It's a constant state of denial. A problem must not exist if I don't acknowledge it. With us denying the denyer I'm wondering if we are just acquiescing to their needs. Shouldn't we be forcing them to acknowledge the situation. You can't ignore it forever.
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Post by Dan on Feb 26, 2018 21:57:50 GMT -5
I think he's felt relief that I have completely stopped initiating any contact. My guess is that I if I were to say anything about this it would just confuse him because I'm pretty sure he has what he wants right now when it comes to our marriage. I'm in this very same boat, as well. Another reason I don't give her any interim feedback like "you know, the fact that we are not being intimate is not good for our marriage" would be honest... but EXTRAORDINARILY confusing. What actions can she take based on that information that will help her save her marriage? NOT A SINGLE ONE. So what would be the point of telling her this?
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Post by Dan on Feb 26, 2018 21:59:34 GMT -5
I think this is what many of us (myself included) have done for a long time. And my guess is that our refuser spouses are happy with that because you are no longer "pestering" them for sex. It's a constant state of denial. A problem must not exist if I don't acknowledge it. With us denying the denyer I'm wondering if we are just acquiescing to their needs. Shouldn't we be forcing them to acknowledge the situation. You can't ignore it forever. No... but it is sometimes too late to start paying attention.
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Post by carl on Feb 26, 2018 22:41:00 GMT -5
I have had some kind of similar experience. From my point of view one can’t expect, hope or even think about sex with a refuser. It is just so damaging. It Just doesn’t make sense to look for sex with a refuser. Despite the injustice of it all, by not looking for sex with a refuser it at least shows empathy in an area which lacks it. In a situation where the refuser genuinely initiates sex, sadly perhaps I think the sensible thing to do is to accept it if one can despite it not feeling totally natural. I would take the chance to compliment them and big them up after all they are your spouse and although it may not do any good it can’t cause any harm and it might help. So I know how it feels to want to counter refuse but don’t think it is the right thing to do and believe that with caution one should accept sexual advances. But at the same time guarding your pride. I am not sure how genuine ones spouse has to be. I would be a bit unhappy about a guy not showing signs of physical attraction in some situations wouldn’t feel balanced. But then chances are they are attracted whether they show it or not.
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Post by ted on Feb 27, 2018 17:19:08 GMT -5
I'll play devil's advocate.
I've learned that not saying the truth wreaked a lot of silent damage to my soul. My proclivity to ignore, pretend, and go-along-to-get-along was part of my contribution to the SM. It deprives your partner of the social feedback they need to sort themselves out. Too much not speaking up breeds bitterness and resentment.
It's all a balance, to be sure. Saying things may make little difference at this point. There's no sense in needlessly making enemies or in worsening situations. Sometimes concealing your plan is good strategy. Just don't lose yourself—don't deny what your heart tells you, or it might stop talking.
Sometimes you need to tell the truth and let the chips fall where they may. Maybe the outcome won't be the same as if you tried to carefully manipulate the situation, but maybe what emerged would be better. Maybe you'd at least preserve your health and sanity. Good luck.
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Post by snowman12345 on Feb 27, 2018 19:37:49 GMT -5
I have to admit, I am a "man-whore". If my wife offers, I take it. Sex between us does not happen very often, but every once in a GREAT while she wants to do it. This last weekend I hinted that I would like to "do it", but Saturday the grandkids showed up and well, sex went out the window. Sunday morning I woke up early as usual and took matters into my own hands, so to speak. Well, afterwards I felt like a short nap and went back to bed. After a while I felt my wife grabbing my ass and I turned and there she was naked and ready! I wasn't sure whether I could manage another round, but I gave it the ol' college try. Lo and behold! I had a second one in me or in her if you will. I have to say this is the first time she has initiated in about 4 years. Perhaps she was trying to make up for the cock teasing she did a couple of weeks ago. I don't know. I am not be giving up my AP any time soon - that's for sure. I will never turn down sex. I might be on my death bed, but I will still try to get one last BJ before I go! Look we have commitment - married 33 years and still together. I can very easily separate love and sex - I don't think they mutually exclusive. I have come to not expect sex with my wife - that's what the side chick is for - but if she offers I will not turn it down. Sex is sex, is sex, is sex... I have found love and commitment doesn't have to include sex. It was awesome when it did for almost 3 decades, but, for me, not necessary. If you want the whole package, you will need to get out of the marriage and go about looking for it - it ain't there.
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Post by footballbat on Feb 28, 2018 15:32:35 GMT -5
I tried this also. I decided I would show her. She had totally cut me off so I was going to do the same only more. It turns out my SO barely noticed. She is an intimacy avoidant, so the more I avoided, the happier she became. It was a miserable experience at first as it was very hard and painful for me. Now, it is normal.
Intimacy avoidance is a contagious disease. The rejected can only take so much rejection before they withdraw into a safe space. It marks the beginning of the end when not touching, kissing or communicating becomes a comfort for both.....
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