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Post by Apocrypha on Feb 2, 2018 11:25:46 GMT -5
It's hardly surprising that "Can it be turned around?" is a commonly asked question on this board, especially for newbies. The first thing they do (as I did) was to read some of the previous threads and quickly get the impression that any attempts at rekindling a love life within a marriage is almost a waste of time and they're destined for a frustrated existence unless they take the other two options open to them (cheat or leave). So in desperation they reach out hoping for a sliver of hope. Perhaps if you do create a sticky it needs to tread the narrow path between the 'truth' and not completely dashing the hopes of newcomers? Is your belief that there is a path between them? No one can really be told there's no hope and expect action on it. Nobody is going to leave their marriage based on anecdotes, even by the thousands, of a group of strangers on an internet forum. My advice - don't even bother looking there or asking that question. Instead, I think you can get better mileage here by setting your goal as getting to the truth of your own relationship and how the two of you feel about each other and about what meets the criteria of a marriage, as opposed to some other kind of intimate relationship. With that in mind, you can evaluate your own trajectory and prospects with your relationship - what your relationship really is and how that reconciles with the expectations you put on it and how you present it.
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Post by choosinghappy on Feb 2, 2018 11:45:02 GMT -5
The first thing they do (as I did) was to read some of the previous threads and quickly get the impression that any attempts at rekindling a love life within a marriage is almost a waste of time and they're destined for a frustrated existence unless they take the other two options open to them (cheat or leave). So in desperation they reach out hoping for a sliver of hope. I personally think you have extenuating circumstances though, xander. She is dealing with a lot of grief and I absolutely can understand her fear in relation to sex again after the abortion. Plus, you have young children! You can still have a fulfilling sex life even with young children but you BOTH really need to be motivated to work at. If not, you end up sexless. saarinista had wonderful advise. You guys are the perfect case for marriage counseling. And it sounds like she'd be open to it as you mentioned she did feel bad and was unhappy about the situation too. I believe marriages go through phases. In the downturns you both have to be willing to work on things. It's hard for her right now based on everything you told us. I think she would benefit from individual therapy and I think you both would benefit from joint therapy once she's ready. I think you should have more than a sliver of hope here. You just need to be open with her and patient and empathetic to her situation. Your SM doesn't sound to me like other SMs we see here. Good luck.
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xander
New Member
Posts: 8
Age Range: 46-50
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Post by xander on Feb 2, 2018 12:08:44 GMT -5
Great reply, thanks.
I guess only time will tell. I'm really glad I found this forum, the vein of wisdom runs deep within it!
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Post by csl on Feb 2, 2018 21:19:25 GMT -5
No one can really be told there's no hope and expect action on it. Nobody is going to leave their marriage based on anecdotes, even by the thousands, of a group of strangers on an internet forum. My advice - don't even bother looking there or asking that question. Your advice is to not pay attention to the anecdotes of strangers. And you are giving this advice as a trusted and experienced.... stranger? Yeah, maybe I'm a Pollyanna, but I think I'm gonna stick around, if only to provide a counterpoint to the "Abandon all hope, ye who enter here" message of some.
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Post by baza on Feb 3, 2018 2:12:13 GMT -5
It's hardly surprising that "Can it be turned around?" is a commonly asked question on this board, especially for newbies. The first thing they do (as I did) was to read some of the previous threads and quickly get the impression that any attempts at rekindling a love life within a marriage is almost a waste of time and they're destined for a frustrated existence unless they take the other two options open to them (cheat or leave). So in desperation they reach out hoping for a sliver of hope. Perhaps if you do create a sticky it needs to tread the narrow path between the 'truth' and not completely dashing the hopes of newcomers? I think that the underlying message to get here is that - unless you are prepared to put your marriage on the line - you are not going to fix it, nor be able to end it. I think that is the distilled message endemic to this group. And most newbies are coming from a place where they are looking for a resolution - but a resolution that side steps the necessity to put the marriage on the line. Scented candle strategies. Counselling strategies. Date night strategies. Cheating strategies. Any strategy that avoids directly putting the marriage on the line. Many newbies even say outright - "divorce is not an option" - which essentially translates as "I am not prepared to put the marriage on the line". I think that, if you are to have any chance of a fix, or an orderly ending then you have no choice but to put the marriage on the line. And that is the underlying message here. Exhorting people to put the marriage on the line, and let the cards fall where they may. To let the truth out. Now, what might happen if you DO put the marriage on the line is not known for your individual case and situation. But there is an absolute plethora of anecdotal evidence attesting to what has happened for other individuals who did put the marriage on the line. And those anecdotal outcomes don't make for terribly pretty reading. But remember. Putting the marriage on the line is NOT in and of itself going to collapse it. It is the quality - or otherwise - of the marriage that is going to see it stand and grow, or fall flat on its' arse.
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Post by flounder on Feb 3, 2018 8:47:25 GMT -5
brian Ah, that's what they say. I think it was just the naked pic. When did I miss that ? Dang it !
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Post by flounder on Feb 3, 2018 8:59:12 GMT -5
brian Ah, that's what they say. I think it was just the naked pic. When did I miss that ? Dang it ! Oh my. Nice.... Polka dot shoes. Ahem.
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Post by Anonymous Steve on Feb 3, 2018 11:15:41 GMT -5
This is a support forum for people in failed marriages. If you are looking for the cathartic release of blame, this is the place for you. If you are looking for practical advice on turning your marriage around it is not. Getting through the days in a sexless marriage is tough and sometimes a two-minute hate is exactly what you need.
But the answer to your question is yes: marriages do turn around. Mine did, from what sounds like a similar position to yours. It's hard to offer advice, exactly, because turning it around is not entirely in your hands. You and your wife would have to work together to make that happen. You are probably also right that now is likely not the right time to try if she is still grieving over her father's death.
What you really should not do is start fixating on your powerlessness and believe that this is just about whether your damaged wife decides to fix herself. There are only two outcomes to doing this: 1) You were right - you are married to a sexless psychopath whose only interest in life is to play power games to make you miserable. In this case your options are limited anyway. 2) You were wrong - you do actually have some influence over the direction of your marriage and have the ability to help rebuild intimacy. In this case your attitude is going to become a big part of the problem.
Don't leave it forever, but don't rush it either. It was about a year between my wife and I having some unpleasant conversations and things starting to turn around.
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Post by ironhamster on Feb 3, 2018 11:52:10 GMT -5
" 1) You were right - you are married to a sexless psychopath whose only interest in life is to play power games to make you miserable. In this case your options are limited anyway."
I think "sexual anorexic" might be a better description. I do not know why she chose to starve herself all those years, nor do I understand why she is so upset that once a month I am finally getting a full belly elsewhere.
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Post by Apocrypha on Feb 3, 2018 11:55:32 GMT -5
No one can really be told there's no hope and expect action on it. Nobody is going to leave their marriage based on anecdotes, even by the thousands, of a group of strangers on an internet forum. My advice - don't even bother looking there or asking that question. Your advice is to not pay attention to the anecdotes of strangers. And you are giving this advice as a trusted and experienced.... stranger? Yeah, maybe I'm a Pollyanna, but I think I'm gonna stick around, if only to provide a counterpoint to the "Abandon all hope, ye who enter here" message of some. That's an incredibly ungenerous, and perhaps intellectually dishonest, mischaracterization of what I wrote - and the way you have posed it doesn't even make sense. That's a lot to go wrong in just a few sentences, csl . I have no idea why you would choose to do that, but maybe someone shat in your cornflakes today. My advice, was to encourage the the OP to direct his attention toward assessing to the truth of his relationship with his wife. As in, "what is the lived nature of this relationship, as compared to other kinds of intimate relationships". It was then to compare that truth with what he, and perhaps his wife as well, in her own words, think a marriage is - and then to assess whether or not the life they are living is in fact a marriage as either of them define it. I was challenging the initial question (which starts too far downstream), of wondering aloud "Should I stay or leave?" before those things are really established - which is what everyone does, including me when I came here. Are you aware of anyone in the thousands of unhappy people who came to this forum, laid out a few shitty anecdotes about their dysfunctional deal, and actually left their marriages right away? I'm not. It takes a lot of reading and soul searching, testing first - before people arrive there. And the place they eventually arrive that is the realization that they do not have anything resembling a marriage to save, based on their own observations and insights, rather than me telling them to abandon hope. I'd liken it to a ship captain whose craft strikes and iceberg, coming to a forum to ask whether or not they should abandon ship and then telling everyone to jump overboard because someone describes Titanic to him. That isn't going to happen, and that's not the right question. The right questions begin with the captain assessing the specifics of the damage, the size of the hole (if there is one), whether the damage is contained, how fast the ship is taking on water, and the effectiveness of the pumps vs the rate of flooding. There are predictable, repeatable outcomes and trajectories for each of those that can be shared - but as the man on the scene, his assessment of each of those factors will feed into painting his own picture of the prospects, and his decision of between two shitty choices. So, my advice is about asking the right questions to assess what one has, rather than starting with "what must I do", because no one is going to leave a marriage - even a shitty one - based on strangers on the Internet telling them to do that (nor are they going to stop wondering if they should leave). It's also about challenging some of the base assumptions people here begin with (eg. my partner is aesexual, my partner is perfectly happy being celibate, my partner's lack of sexual interest in me is an oversight of consideration and human decency on her part and a moral failing), by asking if they actually have evidence that this is true. And since you have talked about me that way, let's talk about you. If reason for commenting, as you state is to "provide a counterpoint to the 'Abandon all hope, ye who enter here' message of some," maybe you can explain how taking a position on a distraught person's prospects of success irrespective of the data is helping them. It's one thing to present alternative explanations or to spar over interpretations of the events they are describing, troubleshooting; but it isn't necessarily a kindness to intend to validate perspectives that aren't serving to resolve their situation one way or another.
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Post by baza on Feb 3, 2018 19:28:04 GMT -5
This bit of Brother Apocrypha s comment (above) resonates with me - - "taking a position on a distraught person's prospects of success irrespective of the data". Say, as an example, a situation like Sister darktippedrose . Have a read of her full run of stories. If one was to suggest to her that her deal was retrievable and not to give up hope would be bordering on irresponsible negligence. Likewise, as an example, a situation like Brother time4living2 . Have a read of his full run of stories. If one was to suggest to him that his deal was irretrievable and to give up all hope would be equally negligent. The facts as disclosed by these two members - above - were/are entirely different. So taking a position on a distraught person's prospects of success / non-success irrespective of the data doesn't really appear to be terribly likely to be terribly helpful. What there IS in the group however, is a large body of anecdotal evidence that provides precedents. Snapshots of how similar stories have played out or are playing out. Lots of examples of situations like member darktippedrose for example. The cupboard is pretty bare of situations like time4living2 - though there is currently a claimant (anonymousSteve) and another (manman) although he appears to be of the "Rambo School of Relationship Management".
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2018 23:47:19 GMT -5
... (manman) although he appears to be of the "Rambo School of Relationship Management". Rofl, baza. 😂 Thank you. Laughter is necessary medicine.
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Post by orangepeel on Feb 4, 2018 2:54:57 GMT -5
" 1) You were right - you are married to a sexless psychopath whose only interest in life is to play power games to make you miserable. In this case your options are limited anyway." I think "sexual anorexic" might be a better description. I do not know why she chose to starve herself all those years, nor do I understand why she is so upset that once a month I am finally getting a full belly elsewhere. Sexual anorexic. That’s exactly it!
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Post by hopingforachange on Feb 4, 2018 10:12:45 GMT -5
I'm still in the process of turning mine around. It's not an easy process for either of us. Some times I want to throw in the towel, and others I can't imagine leaving.
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Post by flounder on Feb 4, 2018 13:38:34 GMT -5
I gave my wife the ultimatum about a month ago. It’s hard to do,and you do need to have your ducks in a row beforehand. I spoke with a good friend of mine. He’s a CPA and he also practices tax law. I’m able to be financially stable if it gets ugly.
I don’t want it to have to come to that. But if it does,I’m ready.
She cried. She promised to do better. We talked about therapy.
I will say that you have to be able to take a hard look in the mirror and see what you yourself need to work on. I’ve realized there are some things I need to work on as well. Good counseling will help. But you both have to be willing to save your marriage. It can’t just be you.
Take your time before Jumping to conclusions.
Things have been a little better here. Not sure if it’s a reset or not. She seems to be trying,so there is something. We’ve still not been intimate. But I’ve noticed little things she does. 2 weeks ago she met me at the door after a particularly hard day at work and greeted me with a kiss. I can’t remember the last time I kissed my wife. I don’t know if this will work,but the time came where I had to “ lay it on the line “ as baza says.
You’ll have to do that if you want to save your marriage. Just be prepared when you do.
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