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Post by shamwow on Jan 29, 2018 20:34:39 GMT -5
There's the thing, in Sister bballgirl 's post above - "it didn't matter we came to terms on our own." In my (no fault) jurisdicton, 20% of divorces end up having to be sorted out by a judge. That means that 80% of divorces are negotiated outside the court system by the spouses and their legal counsel - within the guidelines of the law. So a pretty handy guideline in respect to legal representation is this - If your spouse is a turd who is going to take it to court, you need a lawyer who knows the law and has a fair amount of mongrel in them. If your spouse is a half reasonable human being, then you'll need a lawyer who knows the law and is a good negotiator. My divorce was one of the 80 percent you referred to. One bit of good advice I got when working through thing nicely was to find an attorney with the right temperament. Then ask the attorney for references to someone they have worked with for an amicable parting. It is cheaper, less confrontational, and less emotional if the attorneys can counsel both parties to keep their cool (assuming that's why the parties want)
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Post by DryCreek on Jan 30, 2018 1:48:23 GMT -5
Today, I took what I consider a big step. I set up a consultation with a lawyer to see how a divorced would pan out for me. Nervous but glad I did it. I need some advice on what questions I should ask. Any thoughts out there? Good suggestions to Google for better lists, but here are some points that stuck with me as folks have passed through... What's the process / timeline? - Waiting period?
- Contested vs. uncontested - process, cost, timeline
- Mediation & counseling required?
- Initial retainer? Expected cost? How / when retainer gets refilled.
Custody of children - Immediate vs. long-term
- Sole vs. shared vs. primary custody (e.g., legal rights over schooling, etc.)
- What to expect with permission for field trips, vacations, international travel (getting passports), moving out of state
What's to be expected financially? - Assets that don't get split (inheritances, gifts, pre-marital)
- Assets that do get split (co-mingled funds)
- Retirement accounts, pensions
- Home equity - valuation, buyout, forced sale (and can they sabotage it)
- Debts - how do they get split? Impact to you if he doesn't pay debts.
- Spousal maintenance - amount, duration
- Child support - amount, duration
How long before interim maintenance can be ruled? - How to survive financially until then
- How much money will you need to keep up with expenses?
What should you do before you file? - Have a credit card where you're the primary cardholder (so you can't be cutoff)
- Open a checking account in your name
- Change your direct deposit (can't do this later)
- Move enough money from joint accounts to your private account
What should you do after you file? What isn't allowed before / after you file? Residence - What constitutes abandonment, and what's the impact?
- If one of you leaves, do they still have the right to enter at any time?
- Legal to change the locks?
Broad suggestion: Start with a list, and interview ~3 attorneys. This is to get a sense of their personality / working style / aggressiveness, and because your questions will get better as you learn and refine them. In many jurisdictions, the initial consultation is free, so it only costs your time. (I'd argue that even if you're paying for it, this is a smart expense.)
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Post by greatcoastal on Jan 30, 2018 8:13:07 GMT -5
Here are 4 other "nuggets of information".
1) Once you go to an attorney for a consultation, you have shared your information with them. This means your H can not hire that attorney. That can be a double edged sword. If you are in a small town both of your choices may be limited, and you will pay extra for travel time and costs. Their will be the good attorneys that would have been to your advantage of settling things , but they could not be available. I've suffered through two of my wife's very bad ones. They only want to over-litigate everything, or they are never available, only to delay things which end up costing more and more money (that goes in their pocket!)
2) All that money, spent on attorneys, his money your money, it makes no difference in the end. Theoretically it's all belongs to the both of you and should be divided between you, not spent on multiple attorneys. (unless you have a spouse like mine who has hidden assets and could care less)
3) When I was out attorney hunting I made an appointment with one, when I showed up they apologized and told me " I'm so sorry , we tried to call you, we can't meet with you, that would be a breach of trust". I said, "THANK YOU! that's okay, that has actually been very helpful". I found out my wife had already been visiting an attorney. That gave me more confidence that I was making the right decision. ( she then had the audacity to go around whining "well, he filed first")
4) If you file first, you have a much better chance of the court deciding in your favor, for your spouse to have to cover there own legal fees, and half or all of yours. Other than that who files first means very little.
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Post by northstarmom on Jan 30, 2018 8:22:30 GMT -5
Have consultations with the best lawyers in your area. If you’ve consulted with them your husband can’t use them.
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Post by rejected101 on Jan 30, 2018 8:27:57 GMT -5
Have consultations with the best lawyers in your area. If you’ve consulted with them your husband can’t use them. Very clever!!
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Post by greatcoastal on Jan 30, 2018 9:30:59 GMT -5
Have consultations with the best lawyers in your area. If you’ve consulted with them your husband can’t use them. Very clever!! And not always to your advantage! Your spouse having an attorney with little experience or is never available ends up costing and hurting both of you. One thing my attorney did, that i admired, was ask me , ""who is your spouses attorney?" When I told her, she responded, " I know her, she is a good attorney and is very knowledgeable we have settled many cases together she is easy to work with". ( Why do you think my controlling W fired her? because the first attorney knew her stuff! She laid it out on the line and told my W. You are not going to get this, this, and this. Not at all what my controller wanted to hear!) When my w. fired that one and hired the second my attorney said, " I know nothing about her, Me or any of the other attorneys I know have ever worked with her before. it's good to know who you are dealing with and know there style and tactics up front." You can bet these attorneys need to know each others style and approach each other with different tactics based on their personalities and experience. The question is " how does that benefit you?" it turns out Ms. 2nd attorney only experience was her own divorce! Thousands of dollars wasted, and more time.
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Post by northstarmom on Jan 30, 2018 10:36:04 GMT -5
Greatcoastal, your manipulative, self centered wife would have run up the costs no matter whom she had hired. And a more experienced lawyer may have declined the job.
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Post by greatcoastal on Jan 30, 2018 13:42:34 GMT -5
Greatcoastal, your manipulative, self centered wife would have run up the costs no matter whom she had hired. And a more experienced lawyer may have declined the job. True, but it still doesn't change my advise about helping yourself by recommending (and not eliminating) a useful attorney to your spouse. You are helping yourself that way. A more experienced lawyer did eventually have to take on my W's case. (my W. put herself in a corner) And that experienced attorney also charged her double. More money that would have eventually been divided between us.
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Post by saarinista on Jan 31, 2018 16:53:49 GMT -5
Bookmarked this thread. Thanks, all for typing up a good part of my lawyer questions list for me.
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Post by brian on Feb 2, 2018 6:01:29 GMT -5
So... one of my tech-savvy kids has been periodically checking in on me here... and has seen at least one of my posts indicating that I am going to meet with a lawyer today.
Said kid informed roomie.
This shit’s getting real... really fast!
Unfortunately, no one has been able to understand my perspective that I was going to gather info, I have no timeline, and all of this is causing me an enormous amount if stress.
They just see it as me being the bad guy and wanting to break up the family... sigh.
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Post by h on Feb 2, 2018 6:10:08 GMT -5
Hope that meeting is really soon. Your roomie may try to preempt you.
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Post by brian on Feb 2, 2018 6:51:08 GMT -5
Hope that meeting is really soon. Your roomie may try to preempt you. 3hrs from now, but it’s the first of 3 initial consults/attorney interviews. I haven’t even decide what my next steps were going to be — step forward, step back, take a pause, decide it wasn’t worth it right now anway. My 18yr okd was very passive-aggressive with me this morning, yet I refuse to disparage their mother and discuss very personal and adult things with him like this.
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Post by M2G on Feb 2, 2018 6:54:28 GMT -5
Today, I took what I consider a big step. I set up a consultation with a lawyer to see how a divorced would pan out for me. Nervous but glad I did it. I need some advice on what questions I should ask. Any thoughts out there? Me too! And the stress sucks. I don’t want to get a divorce, but I can’t continue living like this. Yeah - exactly my dilemma as well. Some days though I feel like living low budget would be worth it.
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Post by northstarmom on Feb 2, 2018 7:21:37 GMT -5
“3hrs from now, but it’s the first of 3 initial consults/attorney interviews. I haven’t even decide what my next steps were going to be — step forward, step back, take a pause, decide it wasn’t worth it right now anway.
My 18yr okd was very passive-aggressive with me this morning, yet I refuse to disparage their mother and discuss very personal and adult things with him like this.”
That your 18 year old would track you online is a serious boundary crossing on that offspring’s part. I’d be very angry if one of my offspring did that. The idea of yours delving into your sex life — lack of a sex life— here is appalling.
I commend your restraint in neither lashing out nor reacting passive aggressively. Perhaps the upside of this is that your teen eventually will realize that sexual and emotional intimacy is an important part of marriage. That may mean that in the future, your offspring applies the lessons to their own marriage.
A spouse who loved you and wanted to keep you happy and married would upon learning of your posts here be offering to take steps to heal the marriage. Doesn’t sounds like yours is. Maybe she also is ready to let go and move on.
Considering there’s a good chance all of your kids now know what’s going on, and are at risk of being caught in the middle, counseling for them could be in order. Marital counseling might help you and your wife let go while supporting your kids. It really does not sound like the marriage is going to continue.
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Post by DryCreek on Feb 2, 2018 8:42:02 GMT -5
So... one of my tech-savvy kids has been periodically checking in on me here... and has seen at least one of my posts indicating that I am going to meet with a lawyer today. "Teenagers: Move out now, while you still know everything!" Firstly, if he's going to peek behind the curtain, he's obliged to read all 360+ of your posts and try to understand the whole story. His couple years of sexual discovery pale in comparison to the marathon that is a marriage, and all of the complications it entails. Having opened this Pandora's Box, he'd be wise to learn from the very painful lessons here and open his eyes to the dangers that lay ahead in his own life. (Note to Brian's son: I got married young, thinking I knew it all; I didn't, and that hubris has cost me dearly.) And no, you probably won't change anyone's perspective on your actions here. It will be perceived that you are making plans, whether you are or not. Playing armchair quarterback, the objectively smart thing to do is proceed with your info collection, because the damage is already done. On the positive side (and it surely won't seem this way today), the door has been opened to a frank and real discussion about whether there's a future for your marriage. A discussion that belongs only between the two people who are in it, and not their children, regardless of age. Best of luck, and make your questions count! ETA: Sadly ironic, your son will discover that his meddling has poured gas onto what was a small fire, causing it to rage out of control. What might have been a resolvable issue will escalate quickly and turn into nuclear war before diplomacy has even had a chance.
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