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Post by johnwyo1 on Dec 18, 2017 17:08:19 GMT -5
As the season of goodwill is upon us, and many of you face sharing the holidays with a refusing spouse, my advice to you – which may seem counter intuitive – is to do your best not to allow the “poison” of the marriage to affect your appreciation of your refuser’s gifts. I did allow it, and though that fills me with regret now, I understand that it was out of my control because until recently I was unaware of what I was actually doing. It’s only being on the outside, with time passed, that I can now see what I did. Hindsight is amazing, when we have time to reflect. This is my first Christmas without my husband being alive. I miss that he won’t call to tell me his gift is on the way. I regret that all the gifts he bought me, I accepted with distain, at least initially, until I realized how cool and helpful they were to me. I want to thank him for all the wonderful gifts he gave me, and how useful they were, but I can’t do that now. What I can do is share my experience with you, in the hope that sometime down the road – perhaps years from now – you won’t have regrets like me. The most telling event to explain this is when my oldest son was visiting us for Christmas, one year. I opened a gift that I thought was from my son, and I was so moved by it, I was almost in tears. I thanked him profusely, only for him to say, “mom, that’s not from me, It’s from dad.” My whole attitude changed instantaneously. Tears dried up, my appreciation for the gift was sullied. I thanked my husband for the gift, but I never felt the same about it. The toxicity of the marriage, and how he rejected me, and hurt me with “mind games” over years had caused me to be unappreciative of the good things he gave me. I always thanked him, but sometimes, I would be thinking “what do I need this for? It’s too expensive. Why the hell did he buy me this? It wasn’t until later when I found how much I could use the gifts that I appreciated them. I won’t beat myself up for my reactions at that time. I was in tremendous emotional pain, and didn’t know any better. You can’t change that which you are unaware of in conscious mind. A case of can’t see the woods for the trees. I will, however, take responsibility for my then attitude, now I can see it in hindsight. I can’t tell him how much I appreciate all the gifts he bought me, and how I still use most of them. Even this device I’m typing on was from him. He’s all around me. Even the car I drive. What he provided for me does not make up for all the unkindness on his part toward me, but he wasn’t all bad. He had good qualities too, just not so much directed at me. If you can get past the pain (hard, I know, when you are in the thick of it), and appreciate your refuser for their positive traits, this Christmas, your future self will thank you for it. Merry Christmas. 🎁🎄 Thank you so much for this post. My wife does have her positives and her strengths in spite of the issues with sex. I really appreciate your viewpoint and I will do my best to appreciate what is good with her. Who knows? That may improve other areas between us!
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Post by Caris on Dec 18, 2017 17:14:09 GMT -5
I don’t entirly agree that we bring “bitterness,” on ourselves. It’s mostly a defense mechanism against what hurts us, and mostly (until we have done some self analysis) is subconscious. I never chose my reaction to my husband’s gifts. It was instantaneous without thought. The thoughts came after the bodily sensation/reaction. I always verbally thanked my husband for any gift he gave me, but I felt negative about the gift in the initial moments of receiving it. We react to a stimulus. Somewhere in the depths of my subconscious there was a conflict. Reason was saying, “great gifts come from someone who really cares about me.” Reality was saying, “this man hates me, (based on years of behavior), this gift is meaningless. I wasn’t aware of this at that time, this is my own take on it now, but regardless of what parts of my being were in conflict, there was mixed signals occurring in fractions of a second in my subconscious, to bring forth indignation at such hypocrisy. Again, all this analysis is post SM, not at the time. I don’t recall ever feeling bitter. Indignation, a little resentment sometimes, but mostly pain is what I felt, and for those who are bitter, it comes from deep hurts, and most are unaware of it, so although it is hard (maybe impossible sometimes), compassion is what is needed for those who are bitter. Having done some reading – and watching lectures – on neuroscience, I now understand that we don’t have as much free will as we like to think we do. It takes awareness, time, effort, and persistence to re-wire the neural pathways that developed over our lifetime. If we want to change, we have to lay down new neural pathways by constantly engaging in the new behavior or thought patterns, that keep us stuck in useless and life limiting patterns. Nail on the head, that. It takes a LOT of effort, more than I ever imagined, to effect change and undo faulty programming from whatever the source. I break it down by habits like: Today I start (not being judgmental for example) and stick with it till I become somewhat adept at it, and vigilant about breaking it - then add another and so on. It's a lifelong process. It's very easy to get derailed and fall back into old ways. All these nasty habit things, as you say, are there for a purpose - mostly to cope with whatever has harmed you, threatened you, or generally defend you from hurtful or dangerous people or situations. The problem is that, when the harmful elements or people are gone from your life the shields remain in place, to blockade even the good people, and ultimately drive them away. You are so right about that, M2G. I am very much aware of my “shield.” My refuser played mind games with me, and sometimes I’ve been struck by it happening with others, but then I asked myself, “are they really playing mind games, or is it a misunderstanding on my part?” Even when someone compliments me on my appearance, my fight and flight kicks in immediately, like it’s a threat. I do say thank you, but my body is tense as though it’s waiting for the other shoe to drop. My husband said a very cruel thing to me once, and it affected me for years. I’m still working on it, but I have improved greatly from where I started. I think many of us who went through the wringer are suffering from PTSD. An immediate body response with fight and flight to what is usually a benign (and even welcome by most) comment is symptomatic of what is called Complex PTSD. It comes from prolonged abuse, in any form.
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Post by Caris on Dec 18, 2017 17:23:50 GMT -5
I’m sorry for that. Do you still buy him gifts and send cards? Would you like these things from your husband? After I stopped putting on a show to the outside world that we were a happy couple, I also stopped sending Anniversary and Valentine cards, including gifts for these occasions. He still sent me cards for years after I stopped, and I put them in a drawer unopened as they seemed meaningless to me, considering the toxicity of the marriage. I did buy gifts for his birthday and Christmas. I do still buy him gifts, just because I like to, not because I expect reciprocation. I asked him last year for a coat, and I told him what style and size I wanted, but assured him that whatever he got would be fine. He told me it would be better if I bought it myself. I told him that I would prefer for him to buy it for me, that way I would feel like he spent some time thinking about me. He told me he would rather not. Oh, wastedyears, that is so cruel. I feel for you. My refuser was cruel with his words too. These things will start sinking into your psyche, and distort how you think of yourself, over time. I am doing better, but it’s taken years to get to this point, and I’m still working on it. You need to be away from him.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2017 19:40:29 GMT -5
For me, it helps to simply accept - not forgive, but accept - my W's selfishness and self-centeredness. I don't expect anything from her, beyond asking her for a ride from the train station when it is raining. I don't expect her to make me meals, I don't expect her to think of me when out shopping to buy anything I might want. And of course I don't expect hugs or kisses or sex. We live parallel lives, we are pleasant enough to each other lately, but I no longer get upset or angry (a couple of weeks ago I actually tried to hug her, she stiffened, and I just withdrew as she half-apologized. It didn't eat me up.) And when she needs something I do it without resentment. It is easier than fighting. And it makes life more pleasant (lately she has been sincerely thanking me more for things I do for her, which is a nice change from previously.)
I bought her a cashmere sweater for Chanukah this year, even though we don't normally exchange gifts .She said, "Oh, now I feel like a jerk for not getting you something. I don't even know what you would want."
I said, "I don't need anything, but if you want you could buy me a shirt."
"I don't even know what size you are."
I delivered the next line with a smile, even though i could have gotten upset: "It isn't a hard thing to find out." And she laughed, knowing quite well that it is true.
I'm still not expecting anything from her. And I'm fine with that.
I know most people will wonder why I stay, but that's not the point of this post. I'm just saying that it is possible to let go of resentment and to try to be the best person you can be completely independently of how you are treated.
Admittedly, though, I couldn't have reached this point if it wasn't for a good therapist as well as for good online friends to have convinced me that I am a much better person than my wife was treating me like. That was hard, and I'm still working on it. I have a way to go yet.
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Post by idgaf96 on Dec 18, 2017 20:01:41 GMT -5
This is one of the hardest times to deal with my relationship. So many times he has skipped Christmas, birthdays and anniversaries. I'm not a spoiled brat. I don't expect big things. I don't have any needs. I just want to know that I am thought of. I will never forget the year I was very pregnant with our first child. He didn't get me a present or a card, nothing. I was really emotional as I was 8 months along. I tried so hard not to cry but I couldn't help it. He apologized and said he had just forgotten about it. That made me cry more. How do you forget such a thing as Christmas? He proceeded to skip ever occasion for several years after that. now I'm just numb to it. He has gotten me gifts the last couple years but I don't think it is him, The kids have gotten older and nag him to go shopping to get me a present. I like to feel special, I want you to think of me and do what you think will make me smile.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2017 22:25:27 GMT -5
You're absolutely right Caris. Thank you. I'm trying to be warm and loving this holiday season, to let go of hurts, to enjoy our family and even our relationship, such as it is.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2017 23:11:33 GMT -5
Caris , time to give yourself the gift of forgiveness.... Happy Holidays
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Post by northstarmom on Dec 20, 2017 7:21:35 GMT -5
It may be that one’s marriage is such ashes that gifts and cards are no longer meaningful but are done out of obligation only. That is what had happened after about 30 years of my marriage. So, with kindness, not anger, I suggested that my husband and college student son celebrate the holiday with my in laws, who were elderly and lived about 700 miles away. My mil had never liked me and years ago, after she said yet another thing that deeply hurt me, I had cut my ties with get. she blamed me for our older son’s drug problems. Even my h said I was justified in cutting ties.
I found I was happier being by myself for the holiday than going through the motions of Xmas with him. I didn’t miss him at all. I didn’t know it then, but what I’d done was a big step toward my deciding to divorce, something I did when I realized I’d rather be single and alone for the rest of my life than remain in an empty marriage.
Gifts mean little to me. Touch and words of affirmation are my love languages. I also enjoy shared enjoyable experiences. If the only “love” I get is through a gift exchange, I am not in a relationship I consider loving. No reason to continue what I experience as a farce or obligation.
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Post by M2G on Dec 20, 2017 11:58:25 GMT -5
W and I basically nixed the whole holiday gift thing. (B-days too.) I wish people well & all that but at home it's just another day / day off from work. Too many bad memories & too many jackasses like northstarmom 's MIL . All the people we really loved, have all passed away. We buy stuff for each other all the time though - holiday or not. When I see something I know she would like, I'll bring it home: Happy (insert date here)! (Or these days it's an unexpected package from Amazon). Last week I had a couple of cool audio books automatically show up on my iPhone I kinda like that better than to just throw gifts around out of obligation.
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Post by Caris on Dec 20, 2017 17:03:35 GMT -5
Caris , time to give yourself the gift of forgiveness.... Happy Holidays There is nothing to forgive. I see it as a natural reaction to how I was treated, but I do regret that I didn’t know what I know now. I no longer beat myself up about anything.
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Post by Frustrated1978 on Dec 20, 2017 20:19:26 GMT -5
The festive holiday period is always a bit harder when living in a sexless marriage. You are surrounded by family and friends, who all get slightly drunk and are in a jovial mood, knowing full well there will likely be drunken sex for them whilst you are stuck pretending to be happy and that all is well.
Personally as time wore on i found it increasingly harder to buy my refuser any nice gifts due the the resentment built up. Before buying her nice gifts used to be so easy for me.
I hear you sister Caris. You make a valid point.
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Post by northstarmom on Dec 20, 2017 20:55:28 GMT -5
frustrated said, "whilst you are stuck pretending to be happy and that all is well."
You don't have to do that. You can choose to be your authentic self and not put on a fake show. You can choose to be in environments or with people whom you feel happy around.
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Post by h on Dec 21, 2017 5:47:08 GMT -5
The festive holiday period is always a bit harder when living in a sexless marriage. You are surrounded by family and friends, who all get slightly drunk and are in a jovial mood, knowing full well there will likely be drunken sex for them whilst you are stuck pretending to be happy and that all is well. Personally as time wore on i found it increasingly harder to buy my refuser any nice gifts due the the resentment built up. Before buying her nice gifts used to be so easy for me. I hear you sister Caris. You make a valid point. Don't pretend. Be yourself and be honest. I did the pretend thing for years and it sucks the life out of you. If your W tries to put on a show, don't participate.
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Post by brian on Dec 21, 2017 6:54:32 GMT -5
The festive holiday period is always a bit harder when living in a sexless marriage. You are surrounded by family and friends, who all get slightly drunk and are in a jovial mood, knowing full well there will likely be drunken sex for them whilst you are stuck pretending to be happy and that all is well. Personally as time wore on i found it increasingly harder to buy my refuser any nice gifts due the the resentment built up. Before buying her nice gifts used to be so easy for me. I hear you sister Caris. You make a valid point. It's even more fun when you realize that guests have had more sex in your house than you have. And it's really depressing when you also realize that one of those people is your 78yr old FIL and his girlfriend. My roomie is either oblivious to it or is in complete denial.
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Post by greatcoastal on Dec 21, 2017 7:23:40 GMT -5
The festive holiday period is always a bit harder when living in a sexless marriage. You are surrounded by family and friends, who all get slightly drunk and are in a jovial mood, knowing full well there will likely be drunken sex for them whilst you are stuck pretending to be happy and that all is well. Personally as time wore on i found it increasingly harder to buy my refuser any nice gifts due the the resentment built up. Before buying her nice gifts used to be so easy for me. I hear you sister Caris. You make a valid point. It's even more fun when you realize that guests have had more sex in your house than you have. And it's really depressing when you also realize that one of those people is your 78yr old FIL and his girlfriend. My roomie is either oblivious to it or is in complete denial. This makes me think about the day when , the weddings happen and all the grandchildren start arriving. How depressing it would have been to look over at my W. and know how many decades it has been without intimacy or sex. Instead I will be the 58 yr old in the room who's been having just as much sex. I will be the one showing up with my girlfriend! While my ex will be leaving early with her other man, her 91 yr old daddy in a wheelchair.
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