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Post by baza on Dec 6, 2017 1:21:27 GMT -5
There are lots of people who find sex distasteful. There are lots of people who don't like sex a real lot. There are lots of people who can "take it or leave it" as far as sex goes. There are lots of people who love sex. That's the macro view of people generally. And there is nothing wrong with any of the above positions.
On a micro level - There are people who do not fancy sex with you (or me or anyone else) There are people who do not fancy sex with you (or me) though they may be keen enough with someone else. There are people who might find you (or me) engaging enough to fuck, but not much else. There are also people where there is mutual attraction and these people want to fuck you as much as you want to fuck them. And there is nothing wrong with any of these positions either. It is just people being people, being what they are.
"If" you hook up with someone with similar views to you (be that despising sex - or being very very keen on sex) there's no reason why you couldn't have a great life partner.
What we see in here time after time after time are matters of basic incompatibility. For the most part in here, people who are quite keen on sex hooked up to someone who is not. It's not necessarily anyones "fault", it just is what it is.
You cannot get another person to "want you". They either do or they don't.
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Post by takestwototango on Dec 6, 2017 9:15:57 GMT -5
There are lots of people who find sex distasteful. There are lots of people who don't like sex a real lot. There are lots of people who can "take it or leave it" as far as sex goes. There are lots of people who love sex. That's the macro view of people generally. And there is nothing wrong with any of the above positions. On a micro level - There are people who do not fancy sex with you (or me or anyone else) There are people who do not fancy sex with you (or me) though they may be keen enough with someone else. There are people who might find you (or me) engaging enough to fuck, but not much else. There are also people where there is mutual attraction and these people want to fuck you as much as you want to fuck them. And there is nothing wrong with any of these positions either. It is just people being people, being what they are. "If" you hook up with someone with similar views to you (be that despising sex - or being very very keen on sex) there's no reason why you couldn't have a great life partner. What we see in here time after time after time are matters of basic incompatibility. For the most part in here, people who are quite keen on sex hooked up to someone who is not. It's not necessarily anyones "fault", it just is what it is. You cannot get another person to "want you". They either do or they don't. I agree for the most part, but some of us here are victims of bait & switch, which is the refusers fault for not being forthcoming and only in the relationship out of their own selfish insecurities.
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Post by choosinghappy on Dec 6, 2017 12:13:46 GMT -5
"If" you hook up with someone with similar views to you (be that despising sex - or being very very keen on sex) there's no reason why you couldn't have a great life partner."
I would change that to read: ...there's no reason why you couldn't have a fulfilling sex life with your partner. Being sexually compatible is not the only ingredient to being great life partners. I would even argue there are multiple more important factors.
So the question I struggle with is: If you are great life partners in multiple other ways, how important is the sexual compatibility factor? Does incompatibility there truly cancel out all the other factors?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2017 12:28:12 GMT -5
"If" you hook up with someone with similar views to you (be that despising sex - or being very very keen on sex) there's no reason why you couldn't have a great life partner." I would change that to read: ...there's no reason why you couldn't have a fulfilling sex life with your partner. Being sexually compatible is not the only ingredient to being great life partners. I would even argue there are multiple more important factors. So the question I struggle with is: If you are great life partners in multiple other ways, how important is the sexual compatibility factor? Does incompatibility there truly cancel out all the other factors? Speaking only for myself of course, the answer to "Does incompatibility there truly cancel out all the other factors?" is.....sometimes. I've been in this for the long haul, 28 years of marriage and counting. I have no plans to leave or to cheat. There have been times (years really) where the incompatibility has either outweighed all other factors or, more accurately, has tipped the scales when times are tough in other areas. Without intimacy, both emotional and physical, there's no retreating together or a place to come together. Without compatibility, the roommate factor takes over and, sometimes, that isn't enough. However, I'm still in the relationship so I suppose it does average out over time to the positive.
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Post by Apocrypha on Dec 6, 2017 13:20:30 GMT -5
I agree for the most part, but some of us here are victims of bait & switch, which is the refusers fault for not being forthcoming and only in the relationship out of their own selfish insecurities. You could probably say I'm one of those, technically, but a little empathy and imagination can provide several reasons that aren't couched in blame about selfish insecurities. 1. maybe she didn't want to get married, but was on the spot to say "yes" or lose the relationship, or thought getting on board with marriage would follow later. 2. maybe something happened or didn't happen as anticipated - the marriage wasn't what she thought it would be - and she felt trapped in it. 3. maybe a partner did or didn't do something, causing her to lose respect for him or to be turned off, or maybe a misunderstanding happened as a result of different assumptions or perspectives, causing the same. 4. maybe a turnoff (a smell, a temper, a habit, a bodyshape, a manner, hygiene, style) that had been ignored became difficult to ignore, or became not worth ignoring, over time. 5. maybe a lifestyle or circumstance changed (kids, getting a house, a job, a location, a hobby) that fundamentally changed the anticipated trajectory into something unsatisfying All of these could be reasons someone might think getting married is a good idea at the time, but ends up not being the panacea they thought it would be. I think in many of these cases, it's less a Eureka moment in which one embraces marital love, and more a case of "why not?" "Let's give it a go" Yes. Mistakes were made. But it comes down to where you are now, and what are you going to do about the fact that you are legally married to a spouse who doesn't desire you. Once you've checked off hygiene, habits, fitness, style, manner etc and all the things you control about yourself, the rest of the things are not so much in your sole control at all. In that sense, you both share the circumstance of being in a sexless marriage in which one spouse doesn't desire the other. That can't be very happy for the "refuser" either, being married to someone they don't desire.
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Post by northstarmom on Dec 6, 2017 13:33:07 GMT -5
“That can't be very happy for the "refuser" either, being married to someone they don't desire. “
It may be very happy for the refuser if they got what they wanted in marriage. That may be children, status, financial support, companionship, domestic help, a cover for being gay, asexual, sociopathic; an escape from an unhappy home.
Keep in mind that sex may not be important to them. They also could be getting sex outside of the marriage or via self stimulation such as if they have a porn addiction. They may have exactly the marriage they want.
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Post by worksforme2 on Dec 6, 2017 13:44:51 GMT -5
Being sexually compatible is not the only ingredient to being great life partners. I would even argue there are multiple more important factors. So the question I struggle with is: If you are great life partners in multiple other ways, how important is the sexual compatibility factor? Does incompatibility there truly cancel out all the other factors? I would say that the answer depends how well you are partnered in the other aspects of the marriage. For a sizable percentage of folks here and perhaps for the population of those who are married it looks like the answer might general be no. And I'm not sure most who stay are really in the "great life partners" category. They just aren't in the category where it's reached the point of bad enough to end it. (I'm not going to go into children, health issues, financial obligations and other reasons people stay). But I do think it cancels out the description of the 2 parties involved as husband and wife. The 2 terms often used here of high libido and low libido(HH,LL) don't always catch everyone here. I expect the majority of members are probably moderate libido. I have sort of kept up with your postings and it looks like you probably fit here. You'd like more sex and intimacy but if push comes to shove you are prepared to write it off. That's OK, it's a personal decision for all of us. As justification for my moderate libido characterization position I bring to your attention how many of the members here who have left their S/M ,and who have made the decision to for go sex for months while sorting things out. And I would agree it's in one's own interest to sort out the damage done to one's self before entering into another relationship. But that's different from just having sex. But I am meandering away from your question. Short answer, if you are in a "great life partner" relationship, then it may be well worth forgoing the sexual component, provided that sexual component is of a lower value to you when compared with everything else. That lower value could allow you to accept the sexless dynamic without the danger of resentment building up over the years to come. A S/M does not necessarily equate to an unhappy one. If both parties are satisfied that their needs, wants and desires are well met then a S/M can still result in a "great life partnership".
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Post by idgaf96 on Dec 6, 2017 14:32:54 GMT -5
My apologies for deleting my original post. It was full of typos and I didn't want to fix it. My original point was I want to be with someone who wants me.
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Post by choosinghappy on Dec 6, 2017 18:31:11 GMT -5
Being sexually compatible is not the only ingredient to being great life partners. I would even argue there are multiple more important factors. So the question I struggle with is: If you are great life partners in multiple other ways, how important is the sexual compatibility factor? Does incompatibility there truly cancel out all the other factors? I would say that the answer depends how well you are partnered in the other aspects of the marriage. For a sizable percentage of folks here and perhaps for the population of those who are married it looks like the answer might general be no. And I'm not sure most who stay are really in the "great life partners" category. They just aren't in the category where it's reached the point of bad enough to end it. (I'm not going to go into children, health issues, financial obligations and other reasons people stay). But I do think it cancels out the description of the 2 parties involved as husband and wife. The 2 terms often used here of high libido and low libido(HH,LL) don't always catch everyone here. I expect the majority of members are probably moderate libido. I have sort of kept up with your postings and it looks like you probably fit here. You'd like more sex and intimacy but if push comes to shove you are prepared to write it off. That's OK, it's a personal decision for all of us. As justification for my moderate libido characterization position I bring to your attention how many of the members here who have left their S/M ,and who have made the decision to for go sex for months while sorting things out. And I would agree it's in one's own interest to sort out the damage done to one's self before entering into another relationship. But that's different from just having sex. But I am meandering away from your question. Short answer, if you are in a "great life partner" relationship, then it may be well worth forgoing the sexual component, provided that sexual component is of a lower value to you when compared with everything else. That lower value could allow you to accept the sexless dynamic without the danger of resentment building up over the years to come. A S/M does not necessarily equate to an unhappy one. If both parties are satisfied that their needs, wants and desires are well met then a S/M can still result in a "great life partnership". worksforme2 Well, my problem lies in that I actually do place sex and intimacy towards the top of the list. I have been trying to decide which factors are the most important to me and I do not actually think I would be able to live in this SM for too long without resentment building up unless my H were to agree to an open marriage. (Assuming nothing with our SM changes.) As it is, I disagree with your moderate libido statement as I think I am on the high end when it comes to women. I’ve had to outsource in order to remain in the marriage thus far. But I cannot picture secret affairs for the next 40 years, nor can I ever picture being okay with long term forced celibacy again. That doesn’t leave me many options beyond divorce despite whatever weight I give to other important factors that make up a great life partnership.
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Post by shamwow on Dec 6, 2017 18:44:25 GMT -5
"If" you hook up with someone with similar views to you (be that despising sex - or being very very keen on sex) there's no reason why you couldn't have a great life partner." I would change that to read: ...there's no reason why you couldn't have a fulfilling sex life with your partner. Being sexually compatible is not the only ingredient to being great life partners. I would even argue there are multiple more important factors. So the question I struggle with is: If you are great life partners in multiple other ways, how important is the sexual compatibility factor? Does incompatibility there truly cancel out all the other factors? I think Maslow's hierarchy of needs explains why sex is disproportionate over other areas. Physical needs usually Trump most others. For example if you are starving you aren't as worried about your emotional needs. Likewise if you are being physically and emotionally denied, self actualization is kind of moot. The question then becomes how important are those physical/emotional needs to you? For most people here (face it we post on a forum about it) it is a HUGE deal. Or at least a big enough of a deal to consider leaving or cheating.
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Post by baza on Dec 6, 2017 21:33:57 GMT -5
There are lots of people who find sex distasteful. There are lots of people who don't like sex a real lot. There are lots of people who can "take it or leave it" as far as sex goes. There are lots of people who love sex. That's the macro view of people generally. And there is nothing wrong with any of the above positions. On a micro level - There are people who do not fancy sex with you (or me or anyone else) There are people who do not fancy sex with you (or me) though they may be keen enough with someone else. There are people who might find you (or me) engaging enough to fuck, but not much else. There are also people where there is mutual attraction and these people want to fuck you as much as you want to fuck them. And there is nothing wrong with any of these positions either. It is just people being people, being what they are. "If" you hook up with someone with similar views to you (be that despising sex - or being very very keen on sex) there's no reason why you couldn't have a great life partner. What we see in here time after time after time are matters of basic incompatibility. For the most part in here, people who are quite keen on sex hooked up to someone who is not. It's not necessarily anyones "fault", it just is what it is. You cannot get another person to "want you". They either do or they don't. I agree for the most part, but some of us here are victims of bait & switch, which is the refusers fault for not being forthcoming and only in the relationship out of their own selfish insecurities. Your spouse may well have bait and switched you - ie lied - and that is on them. Any consequences that ensue from that choice they made to outright lie to you are on them. But your choice to remain in the dynamic is on you. Not your spouse. Any consequences that ensue from that choice you made to stay are on you.
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Post by baza on Dec 6, 2017 21:54:21 GMT -5
"If" you hook up with someone with similar views to you (be that despising sex - or being very very keen on sex) there's no reason why you couldn't have a great life partner." I would change that to read: ...there's no reason why you couldn't have a fulfilling sex life with your partner. Being sexually compatible is not the only ingredient to being great life partners. I would even argue there are multiple more important factors. So the question I struggle with is: If you are great life partners in multiple other ways, how important is the sexual compatibility factor? Does incompatibility there truly cancel out all the other factors ? If sex had been the only issue in my deal, I reckon I'd still be in it (but for the fact that my ex missus died suddenly in 2015) The sex, as a single issue, was not sufficient by itself, to bring our deal to an end. But sex was NOT the single issue in my deal. It was one of several issues. And the totality of these assorted issues WAS sufficient to bring our deal to an end. Had there been a robust sex life in my deal, I could probably / possibly have overlooked one or two of those other issues. Maybe. Perhaps. I don't really know. But anyway, straight up Sister choosinghappy , are you holding a position that "everything is great bar the sex" ?
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Post by choosinghappy on Dec 6, 2017 22:20:59 GMT -5
But anyway, straight up Sister choosinghappy , are you holding a position that "everything is great bar the sex" ? No. Some things are great, some things are good, some are ok and sex is terrible (read: nonexistent). Unfortunately the issues that stem from lack of sex and intimacy seep into some other areas.
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Post by greatcoastal on Dec 6, 2017 22:33:26 GMT -5
No. Some things are great, some things are good, some are ok and sex is terrible (read: nonexistent). Unfortunately the issues that stem from lack of sex and intimacy seep into some other areas. Coming to that realization, is a slow, painful process... What makes it twice as difficult is the reality that the refusing spouses chances of realizing ( and a long term permanent change) the ripple affects, the toxicity of the lack of sex and intimacy, are next to zero. Like trying to grasp oil in your hand.
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Post by baza on Dec 7, 2017 0:25:35 GMT -5
If you are great life partners in multiple other ways, how important is the sexual compatibility factor? Does incompatibility there truly cancel out all the other factors? Not unless he/she throws in all the bonus side-effects: Denial DARVO Refusing talk about it. Refusing to go to counseling. Appearing to not give a damn about your feelings. Appearing to not give a damn you are chronically depressed. Refusing to work on resolution. Refusing to compromise. Etc. But I’m sure he/she would never do such things. And there's the thing. Is this statement - "we are great life partners in multiple other ways" - actually true ? It is a question that warrants a fearless, objective and critical examination.
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