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Post by choosinghappy on Dec 8, 2017 6:25:20 GMT -5
Not unless he/she throws in all the bonus side-effects: Denial DARVO Refusing talk about it. Refusing to go to counseling. Appearing to not give a damn about your feelings. Appearing to not give a damn you are chronically depressed. Refusing to work on resolution. Refusing to compromise. Etc. But I’m sure he/she would never do such things. And there's the thing. Is this statement - "we are great life partners in multiple other ways" - actually true ? It is a question that warrants a fearless, objective and critical examination. I agree baza and that is what I am (slowly) trying to do. itme As for your list, I assume your last comment that you’re “sure he/she would never do these things” was meant to be sarcastic but in my own SM deal, none of these items on your list apply to my H. He doesn’t deny, attack, or refuse to talk about it. He is in counseling, trying to work on himself and find a way to resolve this, and he does care greatly about my feelings and my unhappiness with our situation. The only one I question is “refusing to compromise”. I don’t know the answer to that one yet. Through therapy I hope to learn if, with his issues with sex and touch due to child sex abuse, he is capable of any kind of compromise or not. I truly believe if he is capable of it he will do it. But even if he DOES have the capability I’m not sure yet if that will be enough for me.
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Post by choosinghappy on Dec 8, 2017 8:04:40 GMT -5
“Did your H’s molester get discovered and punished?”
No. The only ones he has ever told about it is me and his therapists. He still had not told me the details (and I do not push because, to what end besides just to help my curiosity?) but I know enough to know it went on for years and it was either someone in his family or a family member knows about it and allowed it to happen as he has told me that if I knew the details it would really change some relationships (with his family). So unfortunately, he is still confronted with it. I don’t know what he will choose to do or who he will choose to tell.
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Post by choosinghappy on Dec 8, 2017 8:07:50 GMT -5
And itme, I think it is likely hard for many here to really understand my situation. I am still in love with my H and he with me (to whatever extent his asexuality from his past allows him to). He is not malicious or intentionally cruel, he is open and willing to talk and work on it as best he can. It’s a blessing and a curse that I am not left wondering “why?”. On the one hand my reality is clear, on the other hand, our circumstances make my decision unbelievably difficult.
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Post by greatcoastal on Dec 8, 2017 8:53:29 GMT -5
And there's the thing. Is this statement - "we are great life partners in multiple other ways" - actually true ? It is a question that warrants a fearless, objective and critical examination. I agree baza and that is what I am (slowly) trying to do. itme As for your list, I assume your last comment that you’re “sure he/she would never do these things” was meant to be sarcastic but in my own SM deal, none of these items on your list apply to my H. He doesn’t deny, attack, or refuse to talk about it. He is in counseling, trying to work on himself and find a way to resolve this, and he does care greatly about my feelings and my unhappiness with our situation. The only one I question is “refusing to compromise”. I don’t know the answer to that one yet. Through therapy I hope to learn if, with his issues with sex and touch due to child sex abuse, he is capable of any kind of compromise or not. I truly believe if he is capable of it he will do it. But even if he DOES have the capability I’m not sure yet if that will be enough for me. There was a woman on EP who sent me PM's (over a year ago) asking me deep thought questions. She sounded like she was asexual and struggling with it, or perhaps -like your H- had been abused sexually. She thought I was a caring, compassionate, giving person, who would be willing to work with someone like her and could understand. That was exactly what I tried to do for her. My answers where honest. Questions about "how long could you wait?, Would you be okay with touching only? Would you have to be naked? Would you want your partner to be naked? How would that affect your relationship in other areas? etc... My answers where full of " I really don't know, it's possible. There would be times where it's okay I can be giving and understanding. Then there would be times where the feelings of not receiving, and not having my needs met would push me to naturally pull away and feel rejected." Now for me, after 25 yrs of this with a refuser, I can not handle it again. You may be the same, you have years of dealing with the rejection mind game.
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Post by csl on Dec 8, 2017 9:20:09 GMT -5
And itme , I think it is likely hard for many here to really understand my situation. I am still in love with my H and he with me (to whatever extent his asexuality from his past allows him to). He is not malicious or intentionally cruel, he is open and willing to talk and work on it as best he can. It’s a blessing and a curse that I am not left wondering “why?”. On the one hand my reality is clear, on the other hand, our circumstances make my decision unbelievably difficult. In a different thread I mentioned that a go-to maven for surviving CSA commented on my blog. One ILIASM-er found that Robin's comments apt to his situation. You can find his reply and the link I made to Robin's comments in this post. Mayhap Robin's comments may be applicable to you as well.
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Post by northstarmom on Dec 8, 2017 13:01:03 GMT -5
“And padgemi, I think it is likely hard for many here to really understand my situation. I am still in love with my H and he with me (to whatever extent his asexuality from his past allows him to). He is not malicious or intentionally cruel, he is open and willing to talk and work on it as best he can. It’s a blessing and a curse that I am not left wondering “why?”. On the one hand my reality is clear, on the other hand, our circumstances make my decision unbelievably difficult.”
He sounds like a fine person with whom to enjoy a mutually loving deep friendship. He also sounds like he never will be able to engage with you in mutual romantic love. One needn’t be married to a person to enjoy a loving friendship with them.
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Post by choosinghappy on Dec 8, 2017 18:36:55 GMT -5
“And padgemi, I think it is likely hard for many here to really understand my situation. I am still in love with my H and he with me (to whatever extent his asexuality from his past allows him to). He is not malicious or intentionally cruel, he is open and willing to talk and work on it as best he can. It’s a blessing and a curse that I am not left wondering “why?”. On the one hand my reality is clear, on the other hand, our circumstances make my decision unbelievably difficult.” He sounds like a fine person with whom to enjoy a mutually loving deep friendship. He also sounds like he never will be able to engage with you in mutual romantic love. One needn’t be married to a person to enjoy a loving friendship with them. I don’t see many divorces either here or outside of here leading to “mutually loving deep friendships”. Call me a pessimist (I prefer realist) but I have to assume much of the good that we have in our relationship would be irreparably damaged if I were to divorce him. Right now I do not want to lose the good. And he does not want to divorce either. So at the moment that’s not the right choice for me.
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Post by northstarmom on Dec 8, 2017 19:34:06 GMT -5
I’ve seen at least one divorce that ended that way. My friend divorced her husband after he became a heroin addict. When he got cancer, she took care of him until he died.
I think that Smartkat still has a deep friendship and mutual love with her refuser ex partner of many years. He wasn’t abusive or neglectful. They had lots in common except that due to his prescription drug addiction, he lost interest in sex.
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Post by Apocrypha on Dec 11, 2017 16:11:26 GMT -5
“That can't be very happy for the "refuser" either, being married to someone they don't desire. “ It may be very happy for the refuser if they got what they wanted in marriage. That may be children, status, financial support, companionship, domestic help, a cover for being gay, asexual, sociopathic; an escape from an unhappy home. Keep in mind that sex may not be important to them. They also could be getting sex outside of the marriage or via self stimulation such as if they have a porn addiction. They may have exactly the marriage they want. I've yet to see evidence of that. I've seen plenty of evidence to the contrary in the post-divorce dating world. It's possible that someone could be "perfectly happy" without sex, but most of the time it turns out they really enjoy sex - just not with their marriage partner. I've dated quite a few women who came from a situation like this. The rate of aesexuality is tiny. It's possible that a marriage is cover for being gay - but I don't think I'd describe that situation as "very happy". Sociopaths, again - not very happy. They don't seem particularly happy with the fights about sex, which is a result of their lack of desire for their partner who is still invested romantically. The scenarios you describe are about practical benefits associated with marriage - but some or all of these things can also be had outside of marriage. Nearly all of the same things are or can be available to an ex-spouse, depending on how things land, in addition to other kinds of associations or relationships. All there really seems evidence of is that they at least feel strongly enough about not having sex with their partner that they'd rather have the fights, risk and misery - in addition to being celibate - than they would the alternative. And in that sense, they have that in common with their spouses. Both choose this (the benefits of pretending at a marriage) in lieu of the prospective alternative. That's a life-changingly useful mindset to grasp, on either side of this equation.
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